Let's do a quick sequence of operation now, there's a lot of logic built into this circuit board. First off, you turn the machine on what it's going to do is circuit board, like i said, has logic built into it, but it's going to energize a fill valve. It's going to fill this guy with water. It's looking for this water float to get to a certain level once it gets to a certain level.

It sends a signal to the board and then there's some logic, a timer built into it once that finishes or completes, then it's going to turn itself into a harvest. It always starts in a harvest and the harvest. This hot gas valve right here is going to put hot refrigerant, okay, hot gas right into the suction line. Okay, after the expansion valves, it's going to warm up the evaporator and melt off any potential leftover residual ice.

Okay, we've got a thermistor right here, that's running to the outlet of one of the evaporators and it's looking for a certain temperature. After a timed function, once that thermistor reaches a certain temperature, a timer starts in the board and once that's over, it starts the freeze cycle. When the freeze cycle starts, the water pump turns on okay starts running water over the evaporator. The hot gas valve turns off the compressor, continues to run and uh the machine runs for a certain period of time.

Okay, after some logic in the board. There's a timer in here after that timer completes the machine. The board starts to look for this water float again to drop okay because it works off of the principle of it puts a certain amount of water at the beginning of the cycle and at the end of the cycle, that water should be at a certain level, Because it's become ice cubes, so once after a certain timer function inside the board this drops down, then it thinks that the machine is full of ice. It initiates a harvest cycle and then starts over there's.

Also, a pump out feature built into the end of the harvest cycle. I can't remember if it happens every time or periodically, where it'll actually pump out all the water from in the sun. That's the plain, simplest explanation of how this machine works. There's also some sort of a bin control.

This one is a mechanical control. It uses a electronic signal when this flapper gets closed. It assumes that ice is backed up, there's also an older style machine that uses a thermostatic control that basically is a temperature controller and when the ice gets so close to it, it says: hey, i'm full of ice shut off, because if they didn't shut it off, Then the machine would freeze up okay. These machines are very critical that they have the right flow rate of fresh inlet water coming in as far as when it goes into a freeze cycle, and then it determines that it's full of ice and it harvests the ice off it uses in conjunction the hot Gas which it's using right now, okay and it uses fresh water coming in to help break the vacuum on the ice cubes to make them fall off.

If you don't have adequate, fresh water supply, then that leads to freeze-up issues. The other thing that leads to freeze-up issues is a potential bad bin control or bad bin thermostat. Okay, most common issue with freeze up is bin control and then i'd in my experience. Second, most common is bad water flow coming into the machine, fresh water.

That could be caused by a plugged up screen on the water inlet valve right here or it can be caused by plugged up water filters or just low water pressure in general. Um freeze-ups. A lot of freeze-ups over time can deform the evaporator and cause it to break be completely. You know bad, and you have to replace the whole evaporator.

So freeze-ups are a big big issue with the hoshizakis. This video is brought to you by sportlin quality, integrity and tradition, a couple of ice machines that are giving us a problem so we're going to turn them on and customer had them off, we'll see what's going on here, so the customer had shut these off. My question to them was because they said they had to reset it was, did they have to push the reset button on the board and they didn't even know where the board was so no um still don't know what the problem is. But that tells me that it's not like a lockout situation, so the left machine filled and then the water pump turned on.

That tells you a lot same thing about the right machine. Okay, so we got to figure out because they said it was beeping, though so interesting, i'm noticing what looks to be like a lot of air in the pump, and let's see this one see this one's not doing it huh interesting. So we come over here to the drain and look how the drain is leaking water - that's not good if i trace that back that'll end up being a machine drain for one of them. I bet because there's no water in the band, the bin is completely empty.

That would indicate a pump out valve check valve leaking by, so i'm just letting the machines run their course. Even though i already have a feeling this one's leaking at the pump out valve, probably eventually, what will happen? Is the machine will run out of water? See it stopped, though, so that's interesting huh, but still it was leaking back for too long. So that's something we need to look into okay. So this one harvested prematurely and we've got really thin ice cubes coming out right now it's only been running for 10 minutes.

Oh looks like it looks like they've been buying ice, but yeah, so this one is probably the one with the water valve leaking by then, because uh we'll we'll see, but basically the water flow looks at the water level in the sump um. And if the water level's low, it assumes that it's got a full batch of ice. Okay, this one just harvested two, so both of them are harvesting too early, so left and right: okay, we're going to shut them off and pull these pump out valves apart and look into those and also look into the water flows, all right. So there's some sediment in there, let's see, what's on the back side of this, oh check it out, we have a cube guide piece.

It's that little piece from the cube guide, it's busted off and that's causing the pump out spring to get stuck or check valve. You should say pump out, checked out. This basically lets the machine purge water to drain to purge any sediment in the bottom. Basically, so you can see several pieces missing where those are i don't know they could be anywhere in the machine.

They also get stuck in the water pump. So if you ever find these, you need to break off all the pieces that you can, that way, they don't get stuck and then we'll have to order a new cube guide for this last machine. So i'm looking for anything that has potential to crack or break and you'll see like micro cracks, so you got ta break the little pieces off because they'll break off later and get stuck throughout the thing now. This is just a temporary fix until we can get.

Those are all the pieces that i found cracked, so this whole cube guys just destroyed, and i imagine this other one will be the same too. I pulled the pump out inspected the inside and the impeller to make sure that there was no other pieces stuck in it. We need to look in the sump too, because there should be more pieces floating around in this thing. This uh is not a black hose.

That's clear, so we need to go ahead and replace that hose. It's got nastiness built up, you can brush it, but you'll never get it to change the colors. Now this is a black hose. People ask why they do clear.

It's because you'll never see that they're dirty see on the black. You can't see what the inside looks like, also went ahead and pulled the spray rails out of the top and uh investigating to see. If there's any other cube guide stuck in there. No machine needs a quick cleaning though, but we're definitely going to get him a list of things that we need to change.

We still don't know exactly what's wrong with it, but we're going to keep going with it. I went ahead and ran a brush. I got these long fitting brushes this one's from granger's. Here's the part number for everybody.

That's gon na ask um it didn't even take any of this stuff off. Nothing even comes out. They just get stained over time, so we're gon na put the machine back together and then we're gon na run some ice machine cleaner through it and then see. If the small cube thing stops, maybe adjust the float, if necessary too, it was a little dirty.

Okay, the machine is all back together and i put it on the ice mode so that we would fill up with water we're just using the fill cycle once it's full of water i'll pour some cleaner in there and turn it to circulate mode, always got to Make sure those cube guys are down all the way, we'll turn it to circulate mode and let it run with ice machine cleaner and then we'll disassemble this machine and see what's going on with that one, you know the sump is full on water when it starts To come out the overflow, it always overflows to do like a siphon to pull the crap from the bottom of the sunk. So once it starts overflowing there, then we'll put it into wash mode pulled. The pump out didn't find any pieces on the right machine, hold the check valve and look at that. So these things cause havoc.

You've got to change the cube guys these. You know 60 70 dollar parts cause a lot of hell, so we're going to finish. Checking the machine out, seeing if we find any more pieces and we're also going to pull this cube gut out same thing as the other one. It's got broken pieces so we'll find any more broken ones and break them off.

These things are sneaky man, pieces, they're, sometimes difficult, oh, by the way i had them empty out the bin. So that way i could run ice machine cleaner through it, but i saw another one here just a second ago where's it at right here right here. It's cracked look at that see: they're sneaky it's hard to see them, but you got to get them all broken off. This will just slow down the potential for these things, getting stuck because they're going to continue to break it's.

Typically, my understanding from the chlorine. That's put in the water double check the spray rail nothing in this one either. So we'll put this one back together and run some cleaner through it. I didn't see any pieces in the sump, so all right, i did a couple.

Fill cycles filled it up. Let it overflow the drain over and over and over again to flush out all the ice machine cleaner and then once we're done with that, i'm draining all the water out we're going to fill it up with uh, clean water and then we're going to run sanitizer Through each machine sanitize, all the surfaces we've touched and then we'll turn it on and finish troubleshooting yeah. Both machines are now getting ready to make ice they're. Currently in the startup harvest, they start up to purge the machine of any ice potentially left on the evaporator.

So they always starting to harvest. So when that's done when it goes into the freeze cycle, we're gon na start a timer and we're going to time how long it takes for both of them to make ice ice machines. Take a while, especially the hoshizakis, to make ice, but while i'm waiting just came up onto the roof, inspect the condensers make sure there's no big issues. Condenser fan motors are running.

I can see right through them, so don't see any issues there. Well, i don't even have my service gauges on this yet, but you notice uh 16 minutes in we're, starting to frost up, we've got a water drip coming from here too, causing some frost buildup, but that's another thing they come over here. This compressor is nice and warm to the body come over here. This whole compressor is about to start frosting and we don't have frost accumulation on our refrigeration lines now without having service gauges on here, i'm going to tell you because the pump is running and it seems to be running properly that more than likely, we have a Txv, that's flooding, we'll have to do some more checks.

Obviously i'm going to let this cycle finish out and see what it does so on the right machine. They both started about the same time. 23 minutes. You can clearly see that there's ice up in there and on the left machine, same thing, there's no ice whatsoever and my compressor is yeah.

So we've got a txv, that's flooding, something stuck in it or something like that. But, like i said we're gon na, let it finish out the cycle and then we'll gauge up on it and compare the two systems and show you the different pressures, all right. The ride machine made ice 27 minutes and then the harvest was four minutes for a total cycle time of 31.46. Now we could use that to do a production check too.

We might do that in a little while, but this guy doesn't even have ice present at all. The whole compressor is actually starting to get frosty. We're going to turn it off we're gon na put pressure probes on it, we'll go ahead and stop this put pressure. Probes and compare the two all right.

I went ahead and drained the sumps of both of them so they're equally starting up um they're both turned back on they're gon na go through the fill cycle. Then, when the water pumps turn on we'll start timing, them got the hoshizaki tech specs book right here turn to the model number of the machine: km901 mrh. We have approximately 70 degree water. We have approximately we're above 70 degrees ambient, but we're below 80..

So we're gon na use the 80 degree ambient, so approximately at the five minutes in in the freeze cycle, we should have a 40 suction and a 249 head, so i've got that written down. This also has the times and everything else written on it. You can get these books directly from hoshizaki uh. You can also download them and print them out.

So we've got everything written down as soon as uh. We get started at the five minute mark, we'll record those pressures. Both machines are now in the freeze cycle uh. They have been for 20 seconds when they get to the five minute mark we're going to write down all of our numbers, and i have it broken down right here and we'll compare the left side to the right side.

So we've got suction line pressure. Liquid line pressure and suction line temp after they merge together, leaving the evaporator. Now i realize more than likely it's just one txv, that's bad, but you change them as a set, so we're getting a common suction line, temp coming out of both evaporators and we'll. Compare that and see how they operate i'll also get an image with the thermal imager, showing you the compressor too.

All right we're coming up on the five-minute mark now, so we're gon na start writing down these numbers and then we'll compare them to what they should be. All right got the pressures written down, so the left machine is 73 psi on the low side 216. On the high side, with a 37 degree, common suction line, going back to the compressor, the right side is 50 psi on the low side, 256 on the high side with a 26 degree common suction line. Going back.

So you can see this one we're getting the evaporator temperature lower. Therefore, we can get it below freezing and start to build ice on the left machine. We can't our evaporator temperature is above freezing and we're flooding refrigerant back to the compressor liquid refrigerant at that, because it's not fully boiling off in the evaporator. So this is going to cause compressor issues.

The problem would be the expansion valve one of the two there's two expansion valves on this guy. These are them right here, and the first thing you want to check is you want to make sure that the sensing bulbs aren't loose or anything? You can usually do that by grabbing in here. So long as they haven't been changed, they're actually taped on. I don't feel anything loose.

I can physically feel the sensing bulb. It's nice and tight. It's nice and tight uh. More than likely there's some sort of debris stuck in here.

Um we've done repairs on this machine before. Actually, i've done repairs changing hot gas valves uh because i believe something was stuck in the hot gas valve. I think or something i don't know you guys may remember. I don't um so uh when you change these valves.

You change them as a set as per hoshizaki. It's just just smart move anyway, so all right that compressor is uh, clearly pretty cold. That is the left side. Let's move over to the right side and look at the difference.

93 degrees, 97 degrees. So yeah we got an issue we're going to give them a big picture, quote on this machine with all the issues. We're also going to talk about replacing some of this hose right here, a new cube guide and then we're going to do a thorough cleaning. I just did a quick cleaning today, so everything else is looking good.

This one right here is making ice. So they're going to have this machine operating this machine, i'm going to shut down because uh we don't want to ruin the compressor. Let's do a quick sequence of operation now, there's a lot of logic built into this circuit board. First off, you turn the machine on what it's going to do is circuit board, like i said, has logic built into it, but it's going to energize a fill valve.

It's going to fill this guy with water. It's looking for this water float to get to a certain level once it gets to a certain level. It sends a signal to the board and then there's some logic, a timer built into it once that finishes or completes, then it's going to turn itself into a harvest. It always starts in a harvest and the harvest.

This hot gas valve right here is going to put hot refrigerant, okay, hot gas right into the suction line. Okay, after the expansion valves, it's going to warm up the evaporator and melt off any potential leftover residual ice. Okay, we've got a thermistor right here, that's running to the outlet of one of the evaporators and it's looking for a certain temperature. After a timed function, once that thermistor reaches a certain temperature, a timer starts in the board and once that's over, it starts to freeze cycle.

When the freeze cycle starts, the water pump turns on okay starts running water over the evaporator. The hot gas valve turns off the compressor, continues to run and uh the machine runs for a certain period of time. Okay, after some logic in the board. There's a timer in here after that timer completes the machine.

The board starts to look for this water float again to drop okay because it works off of the principle of it puts a certain amount of water at the beginning of the cycle and at the end of the cycle, that water should be at a certain level, Because it's become ice cubes, so once after a certain timer function inside the board this drops down, then it thinks that the machine is full of ice. It initiates a harvest cycle and then starts over there's. Also, a pump out feature built into the end of the harvest cycle. I can't remember if it happens every time or periodically, where it'll actually pump out all the water from in the sun.

That's the plane, simplest explanation of how this machine works. There's also some sort of a bin control. This one is a mechanical control. It uses a electronic signal when this flapper gets closed.

It assumes that ice is backed up, there's also an older style machine that uses a a thermostatic control. That, basically, is a temperature controller and when the ice gets so close to it, it says: hey, i'm full of ice shut off, because if they didn't shut it off, then the machine would freeze up. Okay, these machines are very critical that they have the right flow rate of fresh inlet water coming in as far as when it goes into a freeze cycle, and then it determines that it's full of ice and it harvests the ice off it uses in conjunction the Hot gas which it's using right now, okay and it uses fresh water coming in to help break the vacuum on the ice cubes to make them fall off. If you don't have adequate, fresh water supply, then that leads to freeze-up issues.

The other thing that leads to freeze-up issues is a potential bad bin control or bad bin thermostat. Okay, most common issue with freeze up is bin control and then i'd in my experience. Second, most common is bad water flow coming into the machine, fresh water. That could be caused by a plugged up screen on the water inlet valve right here or it can be caused by plugged up water filters or just low water pressure in general.

Freeze-Ups. A lot of freeze-ups over time can deform the evaporator and cause it to break. Be completely, you know, um bad and you have to replace the whole evaporator. So freeze-ups are a big big issue with the hoshizakis all right, so left machines down right machine.

I got going. They also have another ice machine right here. That's been down since, before the whole cova thing don't know what's wrong with it. I'm gon na try to get this one running so that way they at least have two ice machines.

That's the hope, at least so. We're going to open this guy up and check it out on the manitowoc machine. You want to watch the circuit board lights, so the machine's off we're going to turn it on and see what happens and if anything, flashes you count. It toggle switch right off the bat.

It doesn't really push in very well, but it starts right up so we're gon na watch it make ice and see what happens all right. I haven't put service gauges on this, but this thing's just about to make ice um. It looks like the thickness probe might be a little thick. We might just run a cleaning through this.

The other thing um is that if this machine ever shut off on a safety, it should still show that safety, unless it's made ice so many times without making that same safety again. So the fact that there wasn't a safety limit kind of makes me wonder if they just shut this machine off because of cobit or something i don't know so this one we might just have to keep an eye on it. Um i'll probably run some cleaner through it just to be safe, though, but um yeah. That ice is a little thick, so i'm to thin out the thickness control and just run some cleaner through it.

Well, this guy made ice in a reasonable amount of time. So we're gon na shut it off and we're gon na run some ice machine cleaner through it just tell them to keep an eye on it. I don't see the need to put gauges on it. I don't see any active safety limits present, so we're just gon na um tell them to keep an eye on it and we'll see if it gives them any other issues.

I mainly just got some of the surface calcium off. This thing needs a deep clean, but this will be better for now so um, i cleaned it with the ice machine cleaner and then now i'm running sanitizer through it, because i had a lot of slime build up too. So i'm probably going to go ahead and replace the thickness sensor and water level probes, because they're pretty calcified and i don't want to be scraping on them. I actually have one of these things in my truck.

I haven't worked on an s model machine in a long time, but hopefully it'll work all right. These older machines, 14 minutes was pretty much the max freeze time. So when you start hearing the evaporator pop, this ice is getting thick on these old machines. You can actually set the thickness based off of the ice you're supposed to use an eighth inch bridge, but you can actually do it with the ice in mind and basically it's thick enough right now, so i'm gon na go and make it harvest so the harvest Lights on now, because the water coming off the top of the ice machine is grounding out that terminal, so it should go into harvest right now and that's good.

We should get a solid sheet falling off all right, i'm gon na watch. It make guys one more time because i i adjusted the thickness a little bit thinner, but we had a one minute: harvest cycle and a 10 and a half or 10.50 a minute freeze cycle uh. These are typically max 14 minute freeze. I think it was three and a half minute harvest was the max, so this one's right within the money.

I don't see the need to put service gauges on this one. I ended up having the thickness probe these things. Uh. If you worked on these machines, you knew that right up here in the top right here there was silicone and that silicone on the inside, when they pressed it together, would wear away.

So when you dip these in cleaner to really clean them, they would get all jacked up and cause premature harvest issues. So we used to change these things like candy. All the time i was surprised actually had one. I haven't changed one in probably eight nine years.

I just happened to have it in my van still still in the packaging, so we're gon na watch. This make ice one more time and we're gon na get out of here and give them a quote to uh fix this uh left side ice machine. A couple things on this one and i think we're gon na still change the water level probe on this one right here and then i'll. Give me an opportunity when i come back to make sure this one's still working all right lots of ice machines.

Down on this one, three total: okay, the first two ice machines were the hoshizaki ice machines. Um. The left ice machine had a had two problems: okay number one: it had a flooding expansion valve, but number two. The pump out check valve had a piece of the cube guide stuck in it.

Okay, so solved the cube guide problem, but then diagnosed the flooding expansion valve problem. So we shut that machine off. The second machine had pieces from the cube guide stuck in its pump out check valve too went ahead and removed those the machine was operating. Okay, the third ice machine, the manitowoc ice machine.

I mean i found a couple little things, but nothing really wrong, and i and the customer told me that machine had been down since like when covet happened, first started or whatever so like march, or something when the lockdowns first started. I'm assuming, but i don't know what the actual problem was. Okay, so it's been down so long. I don't know you know, and i went through it quickly and really didn't see anything wrong.

Other than a few issues like the power switch was sticking um. The thickness was a little thick uh. The machine itself was dirty that was to be expected from being off and just sitting there with water in the sump. It was very important that i drained out all that nasty water and cleaned it with sanitizer too.

To get any potential bacteria, or anything like that out of there always want to be careful about when you're working on these machines as you're done cleaning or as you're done working on them, you really want to go through them with a sanitizer as you're coming out Of the machine you clean with sanitizer uh sanitizing, everything that your hands touch and that kind of stuff um. We need to be ultra careful when we're working on these ice machines, because that's food, i mean people are eating that drinking. That and your hands, you know, are on your dirty tools and all that stuff. So you need to be very cautious about working in the ice machines.

I'm not perfect either, but i try to do my best okay. So this was like a triage situation where we had to go through and just try to do our best to figure out what was going on now. I will be a hundred percent clear with the customer that the the things that i'm gon na quote - i am not guaranteeing those are gon na - solve all their problems. We need to start with those problems, fix those clean the machines properly.

After that, then we can continue diagnosing, so they will completely understand when i am done quoting it that this is just to solve those problems at hand, and you know we need to make sure there's nothing else wrong. Now. The fact that i turned off the left machine that one there's nothing we can do about it, but the middle machine and the right ice machine. They should continue to run until i get there.

Okay, and if they don't, i will call them and follow up if they're still having issues, then i'll go back out and diagnose further okay, i really didn't see the need to put my gauges on the far right ice machine, but again uh. You know i was looking at the circuit board. Okay, the logic board basically tells me, you know. If there was a problem, it would record it on the logic board.

Basically, if it took too long to make ice or took too long to harvest it'll record it and that record doesn't go away until it has so many consecutive cycles. After not doing that problem, it has to do like. I want to say like a hundred cycles of or 200 cycles or something like that of ice, you know ice making without having that issue again. Then it clears that out of the logic board.

Okay, so the fact that it didn't have anything on there, you know tells me that it might have just been a power issue or something like that. But at the same time i don't know how that, like it's been eight months or six months or whatever, where it's been off. So you know i don't know it's kind of weird, but i wasn't going to spend all day on it. I reset it did my best got it operating and just told the customer to keep an eye on it.

Okay, same thing: in the beginning of the video i was kind of explaining with the host zacky ice machines too. My first step was asking the customer hey. What's going on with these hey and you know, and they said oh yeah we've had to reset it and i say okay, what do you mean by reset because reset to me and reset to them is two different things reset to me? Is they pulled the cover off the circuit board? They hit the button, it was beeping at them and that reset it okay, but to them that wasn't the case. None of them knew where the circuit board was or where the reset button was so and - and i didn't tell them - i just said: okay when you say reset, what do you mean reset, i said: did you flip the power switch off, or did you open the Unit up and reset the reset button you know: did you get to the circuit board and push the button they're like what what i didn't even know.

There is no okay cool that answered my question. They didn't reset a safety within the machine. Okay, they must have just turned the power switch off or something, and they call that resetting it. That kind of investigation really does tell you a lot, because you know, if you just listen to the customer and they said they reset it, you could go down a path trying to find you know, and there might not even be anything wrong.

Okay. The next thing is: if they did tell me yeah, we reset the board. I would say how many times was it beeping, because on the hosh's hockey ice machines on the left, yeah, those ones have a cycle and they beep for every error message that there is a certain amount of time. So you know it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to solve everything in those initial questions.

But it's just the stuff that i go through. Picking the customer's brain and at the same time, i'm trying to bs with them and just have a general conversation because it actually has been a while, since i've seen this customer, we were kind of talking about covet and all this stuff and how it's going. But that that small talk really does get you more answers because um, it just builds a good conversation with the customer and they'll tend to be more open with you about issues or different things like that versus. If you just walk in with an attitude and say, okay, what's wrong, what happened? Did you do this? Did you do that? You know just start a nice general conversation ask them how they're doing then lead into the ice machine, and then you know as they're walking, by checking on you, because the customer genuinely when you're working on ice machines, it's you're, going to be sitting on your ladder For a while, okay try to stay busy, but even if you're not staying that busy every time the customer walks by grab them by the hands and say you know what it's really kind of weird.

This is what i'm watching you kind of explain things to them. You know make them feel like they're, getting something for the time you're just sitting on that ladder, waiting for the machine to make ice. Okay, because we all know if we work on the ice machines, it's a waiting game. Okay.

What i like to do is take my notepad and write everything down just the whole time, even though it really doesn't matter the hoshizaki ice machines, you're. Looking at the pressures five minutes into the free cycle, i continue to write down my pressures, the whole time just taking notes. Okay, it just makes the compa the customer feel more comfortable with the fact that you're just hanging out there walk up on the roof, wipe down the outside of the ice machine. You know, while i was waiting for it to make ice, i had my timers running.

I went up and i walked to the roof, looked at all their ac equipment, just seeing if there was anything jumping out at me just trying to stay busy that kind of stuff okay. I really really appreciate you guys making it to the end of this video. If you guys haven't already, please consider, subscribing to the channel really does help uh. If you guys are interested, you guys can support the channel.

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