Oh okay: here we go oh so that should be yep, okay, good! We should be yeah. We should be good to go all right, so class today is core essentials. Um first thing i have to do whenever i do any of these rses presentations is fully disclose. That these are the properties of rses, refrigeration, service engineers, society and laurie.

Schiavo was uh nice enough to uh, give me the rights to use it and uh. I appreciate that so um this is uh. This is all theirs, and rscs is a great uh organization. So anyway, here we go.

This is all stuff. If you ever take the nade exam that will potentially be on it, but again, uh nate has a crap ton of different stuff on it, and that is a technical term. It is one crap ton of uh of different things on there. So it's certainly not a presentation like this doesn't cover everything, but for all y'all my the students of the apprentice program um.

This is all going to be stuff that we've mostly covered, but we're just going to do reviews. So when i ask a question, be prepared to unmute yourself and answer please and then keep yourself muted. If i don't ask a question so here we go all right. So um oh hold on.

I need to get my other screen up here so that i can that's not the one i wanted to have open nothing like being prepared. You know that's how i rolled up all right, so this is all the stuff we're going to go over. I'm not going to read it all. You know i can't stand reading slides all right, so we've talked a lot about electrical diagrams and the best way of to learn how to read electrical diagrams is to read them quite often when you encounter a problem with any sort of equipment.

The problem turns out to be electrical. We've talked about that a lot, but if you have a clear understanding of how to read a wiring diagram, then you're going to find the for generally find the source of the trouble, especially if you're working on a piece of equipment you haven't worked on before. So we've talked about this before, especially when you get on into commercial equipment where you have a lot more safeties, or even things like furnaces um anytime, there's concealed wiring, where you have wiring that goes through. You know any sort of a wall in the equipment where it's kind of hard to trace it from one side to the other.

The electrical diagrams come in really handy you're, going to find a lot of different types and we're going to review a couple of different types and styles, but you're also going to notice that there's some key differences. So when you're in residential, you tend to rely a lot more on colors um color code is a really big deal, but just keep in mind that electrical circuits don't care what color the wires are. They they are colorblind and in electrical. You can do that because you have fewer conductors and so you you know you can just use a couple different colored wires.

But when you get into larger commercial equipment, especially really big stuff like if you work in grocery store applications, you're going to find pretty quickly that the wire colors become almost meaningless because there's so many of them and instead they start to generally, if you're lucky start To tag the wires with numbers, so pay close attention whenever you're looking at a diagram of any sort um if there are numbers kind of like we talked about before, with the design of different types of pressure, switches and overloads, and all that you can learn a Lot, just by looking carefully at what it looks like you know, for example, the clothes on rise type, the you know, pressure activated double pull single, throw et cetera, et cetera. You can learn a lot just by looking carefully at it, and the same thing is also true when you're looking at when you're looking at the numbers on it. So again, the the biggest thing that i want you to uh to overcome early on when you are doing electrical in terms of electrical diagrams. Is this feeling that you need training before you can start referencing them, because your training is referencing them? Obviously we're covering the basics - we've already talked a lot about how to handle.

You know work around electrical safety and the proper ppe and all that once you know that basic stuff, then it's just a matter of applying it and you know tracing the physical wires through a piece of equipment using the wiring diagram, all right, so um components of The wiring diagram we've talked about this uh quite a bit. These are the components of the electrical circuit. You'll notice, these these first four um power supply. So you have something that supplies power to the circuit.

In the case of the high voltage electrical in our equipment that we work on, it's generally going to be 120 volts, 208 240. You know up from there, but then the low voltage side for us is often 24 volts and those are both considered. Our power supplies - and we talked a little bit about how a transformer is both a load in the high voltage circuit and a power supply for the low voltage or the control circuit. Again talking about you know kind of typical residential electrical um path for power.

That's what we call in in our previous class. That's what we called our conductors. Uh our loads are the parts in the circuit that are the uh. You can call it power consuming.

We've talked about this before it's not really consuming power, but they're. The part that take the electricity and do something with it, and so those would be things like you know, motors and lights and heaters and anything that takes electricity and changes it to something else, electromagnets being a huge part of what we do in both motors and Solenoids and all that and the switches are another type of power passing device. In addition to your conductors, your switches are also power passing and then on a wiring diagram. You also have the legend and the legend um helps to describe uh.

What's going to be on the diagram, what the different symbols are and you'll notice pretty quickly that there are some kind of standards for wiring diagrams, but there's actually a lot of variation too, and so different manufacturers different commercial versus residential versus industrial. Depending on the complexity. There's a lot of different styles, but then also there's a lot of variation even for manufacturer manufacturers, so getting used to some of the basics, but then looking at that legend or key every time is really helpful. It's one of the first things, i'm always looking for a couple: different types of diagrams ladder: pictorial also known as point-to-point and installation diagrams damien says he's here, but his internet is garbage so uh ladder diagram uh is most commonly used.

It's the one that we teach. The most it's the one that has, in my opinion, the most utility in terms of being able to diagnose things, because it's very easy to trace down the downside of it. And the reason why newer technicians, often don't like it as much, is that it does not. Physically show where the components are in the circuit, so it's much more about locating them in terms of the circuit path, not about locating them in terms of their physical position.

Also, the components - and you know, parts and pieces and loads and switches - don't look like how they look in real life, and so it makes it more tricky for somebody who's newer to the trade to identify them. But i want you to get to a place where you do that easily um. It starts with the power supply down the sides like rails of a ladder and then all the loads and controls loads and switches and conductors are placed in between them. Now again, as you know, in real life, that's not how it works in real life.

A lot of times, you'll, have multiple conductors run together very closely in parallel, and so sometimes it's hard for newer technicians to visualize the fact that these two rails, all the way on the outside, are represented by just two conductors in a single cable like in a You know low voltage, thermostat wire, or you know some three conductor, wire or whatever the case may be um now keep in mind that that is the this is the us standard is to have the rails on the outside, and the rungs in between the european standard Is to have the lines running down the center, often horizontally, and then everything branching out on the outside and it's you know in the a lot of people, ask why they do it that way. It's because they just want to thumb their noses at us. You know we do it the right way and they just want to do it different just to be different than us, and actually i have no idea why that is, but there must be some reason same reason. They drive on the left side of the road.

Apparently, all right, so example of a ladder diagram um, let's go through a couple things, i'm just going to point on the screen. You should all be able to see my mouse. I wonder if i can make my mouse bigger. I don't know if i can yeah.

I can't let's see if i can make it bigger, bigger, bigger bigger. I can actually do a laser point. That's cool! Oh! Look at that: hey, good old, good, old, uh, powerpoint, all right! So let's start here! Let's start right here. What do we got right here? The thing i'm circling i'll settle for any one of you answering everybody whoa everybody at once then wow, that's awesome, all right yeah, so it's a contactor and what would we call this? Would this be a load, a switch, a conductor, a switch switch, all right, somebody's got a really bad connection there.

That would be a switch yes, because this just opens or closes now in the position that it's currently in. Is it open or closed open? Yes, it is open because there is a gap and air gap in between. If it was closed, we would have a slash across kind of like this little guy right here, this little c1 feeding our crankcase heater all right. So, let's, let's pick something else here.

What is what is this guy right here, the straight line and then the curved line? What is that uh capacitor? That's a capacitor yep, that is a capacitor, that's the symbol for a capacitor, and you can also tell it's a capacitor because of where it's connected in the circuit. It's connected over here to our start terminal yeah. That makes it easy right and you knew it wasn't an actual gap. So that's good all right, um, let's see what else see what else we've got down here.

What do we got right here? Transformer we got a transformer and the transformer is a load in the high voltage circuit. So this is a load path right, l1 to l2 through the transformer, but in the low voltage circuit it is what power supply is the power supply, so it supplies power to everything you can see. This side here is going over to r going through our different switches. Um, let's see now we already covered this.

So, let's see, if any of you remember this um somebody's got a lot of background noise going on there. Let's see if we can figure out who it is uh, let's see, i think it's pretty mario, oh uh, because if you're muted, then it wouldn't be better. You know, because i wouldn't be able to answer your question. Okay, so here we go this one right here.

This this one that says tc, let's see if you can tell me what type of switch that is so i already gave it away it's a switch, but then what specific job is this switch doing close by open on our eyes and it's not open on rounds? Yeah, because it's already open when it rises, it's going to close so is it: is this switch normally open or normally closed, based on how it's drawn normally open, normally normally open, because it's drawn is open. It's close on rise in what, though, temperature temperature right and so based on just looking at this. What do you think this switch is yeah? It's a thermostat, it's the cooling um switch on the thermostat, thermostat, cooling, yeah, and so when the temperature rises it closes and turns on our compressor. Contactor right makes sense and if we were to trace it down, this would go here.

Let's see here where's our y y goes here that's kind of interesting how they have that drawn anyway, i'm not going to get caught up in the weeds there, um all right. So what is what is this right here? Low pressure switch low pressure, switch yep, and so it is what type of switch specifically normally what normally closed open open on drop on fall, yeah, open unfold, yeah, yep, very good um. Let's see here, we've got this little symbol right here. I don't know if we've talked about this, i think we have talked about it before.

But what is this little symbol? Anybody know ground yep. That is a grounding symbol. The universal grounding symbol. I don't know if it's universal, i'm not sure exactly what grounding symbol they use on mars, but at least on earth.

It's what we use all right, we're going to we're going to keep moving on you. You all did pretty good on the quiz. Some of you are just some of you are just kind of cruising uh who says somebody says they can't see anything. I hope everybody can actually see what's going on in the screen.

That would be really disappointing. Let's see hold on a second, i just want to make sure. No, no, i know everybody because it's something with your you guys can all see. What's going on on my screen right, not a thing just been guessing yeah yeah! Okay, i guess that's pretty obvious that you have been for some reason.

You know what it is is that he set his screen to only show me just because he likes my face so much that's what i think it is makes sense. Okay, here we go always the consummate professional all right, let's see if i can oop. Oh, i see what's happened here, all right, pictorial, diagrams, so pictorial, diagrams, the second most common type uh and the drawings more closely resemble the components themselves rather than symbols, and so they kind of give you an indication of the positions of where things are in the Control panel or where they physically are in the system in some cases and there's a lot of variation in how they are represented. But we're going to do just a couple of quick examples of what those look like.

So you can see right away that one of the biggest things that's different is that you don't have the advantage of the latter setup. So things aren't just connected between two sides. You kind of have to trace them down visually and so in terms of the tracing part it's more difficult, but it makes it look a little bit more like it looks in real life, especially like. If you look at that transformer.

That looks a lot more like a transformer right, i mean it's. You know physically looks like a transformer to be easier to recognize these wires uh using this diagram, but it's still a little more difficult to trace down, because now, if you want to see where this goes, you kind of have to do this weird little dance in Order to figure out where it goes, but the you know the relay looks more like a relay pressure switches. Look more like pressure switches, the compressor terminals, look more like compressor terminals. You know everything.

So so that's obviously why people who are newer, prefer it all right. Uh installation diagram uh is the next one and uh uh. It's it's really just showing you field connections, so just things you need to do specifically in order to install a new piece of equipment, which is one of the big things that kind of drives me nuts. About our trade is that we sell these boxes and these boxes, you know condensers air handlers.

They have these terminals that people have to hook up and a lot of folks, especially those who have just done a lot of installation. They start to think that that that connecting those wires is the only job. But the goal, of course, is to understand not just the wires where you make your field connections from the new box, but understanding everything else that goes in it, because otherwise you can't understand how to actually repair the machine. You only understand how to hook it up.

Initially, and so that's why a lot of folks who have installed equipment their entire lives still don't understand how to diagnose electrical, because it becomes about connecting red to red and green to green and not really about understanding. Where does that go once it hits that r terminal, or once it hits that g terminal or that y terminal and what feeds it and what is the sequence of operation, but in terms of being a practical thing to reference when you're installing a piece of equipment It is a very handy thing, obviously to look at and sometimes there's going to be additional information there um. So first off you see here, we've got our got our little ground symbol there as well. So that's pretty universal whenever there are dashed lines dashed lines.

Pre generally indicate field installed conductors, and then here it also tells you you know what size gauge wire to use so sometimes there's just some additional helpful information and again in terms of the things that i see, people miss most often it's these little things that uh Seem like they're throwaways, so your attention doesn't go to them right away. So, for example, see where it says tb1 here see. If any of you can guess what that means, terminal block one yeah terminal block one exactly and now as soon as you notice that well now you can't unsee it it's like! Oh okay! So now i'm looking for terminal block one and when you reference this same terminal block on the pictorial or the ladder diagram. Now it's going to become a lot more evident, which is a nice nice little thing so anyway, just various little various little things to pay attention to i'm going to check one thing: real, quick! I just want to make sure that we're okay, all right! That's right! I have to hit this button here, all right, all right.

So when you're looking at the the road map, the road map is the is the diagrams uh. You got to understand the symbols and signs. We've talked a lot about those already and we've already covered. Some of those but um you want to understand what they are typically and then you want to know how to find those answers on that specific diagram.

And so again you know refer to the key, but we're going to do this as a little bit of an exercise together, all right, so wide range of power supplies, um notice, right away here, that this is showing you where a field connected power supply is all Right, we got the dots, but it also gives us some more information. So what is the voltage of this assembly over here? What is the designed voltage? 208. Okay, but what do those other numbers mean? 208, very good. What do those other numbers mean single stage? 60.

Single phase 60 hertz right. So what other types of motors could you potentially run into or what other types of appliances could you run into three? You could run into three different models. Yeah you could have. This could say three.

That would mean three phase. This could say: 50 hertz, which would mean 50 hertz right and and you'll run into that. Sometimes where um some will be 60 50 60, where they could be either, but sometimes you literally have an incorrect product. You have something that is not designed for the power supply.

It's not going to be common for you to find uh a 50 hertz. You know device, but it is. It can happen something especially if you you know order it off of alibaba or something, and it's coming straight from overseas. Sometimes you will get a appliance or a you know some sort of a tool or something that isn't designed for our power supplies.

So it is something to watch for this. One right here is 460 three phase 60 hertz. Now, just while we're on the topic, anyone care to remind me what hertz means so how many times that flashes in a minute, so how many cycles per second cycle, yep yep and that's the sine wave. You know we talked about how many times does it make a cycle per second and 60.

Hertz 60 cycles is the standard um standard for the united states. Now what's another term for that, though, that's another term for cycle right. Well, it's uh frequency frequency, sal answered it in the chat frequency. So yes, that's another term for it all right we're going to keep going.

I always like to i always like to nitpick these things apart. You know i never i never just follow what the slide. The people who make the slides uh intend, but you know that's, that's me, i'm a rebel, i'm a rebel without a cause. Actually i have some causes.

They just might not be good ones all right. So most schematics use straight lines to represent the wires uh and connect components. Um often different lines will indicate different types of wiring um, so just pay attention to how the lines look thinner lines, thicker lines, dash lines, solid lines. Those are generally going to represent something.

Now there is, there are cases and let's go ahead and move ahead here. There are cases where wires will have little curves in them, but usually that doesn't represent anything other than just to show wires that do not connect versus wires that do connect. So when you see these little points here, that's an indication that there is a connection there generally speaking and then, if there is no dot in a straight line type of wiring diagram, then that would indicate no connection so connection with dot, no connection uh without dot. Um another thing to notice and pay close attention to is that, especially on contacts a lot of times, they are going to have numbers there and those reference back, sometimes you're, going to find that even on the device, it will have numbers marked on it and it Makes it a lot easier to kind of find where you are in real space by referencing those numbers all right when we see the ones that don't have dots, though you'll find that wires that do not connect will have these little jumpers.

So if you look at this little guy right here, this is a connection connection connection connection. These ones that jumper over are not connections and there is no real jump over in real life. It's just a way of showing that there's no connection that makes sense to everybody, it's pretty straightforward, but uh yeah. We would call these crossovers is a term that we would use just uh.

Just a way to visually. Represent these wires ain't connected together, all right wire, color, standard standard wire colors on line voltage. Colored wires are generally going to be your hotlines and again we're talking about your kind of your standard residential uh sort of thing. When you get into heavier commercial they'll.

Have you know different standards for a b and c phases? Um different voltages will also tend to you know, within a structure, if you have different voltages, they'll run different wires, just to identify them, but we're just going to stick with the basic stuff, like commercial residential. Here so when you have black wires that are black wires, that are red um, those are going to be your ones that are line voltage. If you have white wires, that's going to be neutral and green wires are going to be ground, green or bare are going to be ground if you just in terms of electrical, if you ever are working with uh like three, you know sorry, two conductor wire where You're using a white wire as a as a current carrying conductor, you need to make sure that you phase tape it well up the wire now again. This is an electrical thing and i'm not teaching electrical code here, but just in terms of identification, um people when they visually see a white they'll assume it's a neutral.

So, if a white, if, if a white is not being used as a neutral and is instead being used as a true hot current carrying conductor, then you should phase tape it up the up the wire with black tape or red tape or whatever and the codes. I think have recently changed about that too. So i'm not i'm not telling you current nec codes, i'm just telling you what a good best practice is low voltage. Red is 24 volt power white is generally heat.

This says, yellow is cooling, but we talked about this. Yellow is cooling on a straight cool unit, but it is actually what, on a heat pump, what is yellow on a heat pump, compressor, contactor yep, and what is the standard color code for the reversing valve orange right and then green? It's blue! Unless it's a rheem, then it's blue. I don't know that all reams are maybe they are um. I had a conversation with this with somebody about this recently uh anyway, but yeah so uh green is it says, fan but green is blower.

Orange is a cooling call for reversing valve and blue is a heating call for reversing valve, and that's rheem is one of the companies that used that that b terminal which confused everybody and whatever all right and then blue, is common? Blue is common, um and and blue. Being common is one of the least set in stone, because you will see black being used as common in some cases too, and again, none of this really matters. You can use any color for any one of these purposes, but as a standard we want to use the standardized standardized, colors and, as another note, just to complete a side if you're ever splicing wires in an eight conductor, thermostat cable, you splice all eight wires, regardless Of if you're, only using four or five, you splice all of them, always because you do not want somebody else to come along and try to use one of the different conductors and then find that it's broken, because you forgot to splice it so always splice. All of the conductors, whether they're being used or not make sense.

Of course it does moving right along um. Some manufacturers will mark drawings to indicate wire colors. So some are going to tell you what color the wires are. Don't count on that they're not always going to tell you but uh, but often they will - and this is a common way that they'll do it.

Uh talking about switches. We've already talked about this a lot, but it's worth reviewing uh switches, open and close the path to complete the circuit, so they close the path to complete, deplete the circuit to make the circuit to power the circuit to energize the circuit. Whatever term you want to use and they open to break the circuit to open the circuit to prevent electrons from moving whatever term you want to use. No matter what metaphor you pick, it doesn't work perfectly.

I talked about. I use the metaphor of the drawbridge which somebody didn't like uh rapkin didn't, like my metaphor, the drawbridge but uh the drawbridge when it's open the cars can't go through, but then somebody pointed out yes, but the boats can you know i just i just can't win With my electrical metaphors, so you just have to memorize it. You know. If the switch is closed, then the electrons can move.

If it's open, they can't um switches can be activated by a variety of things. We've mentioned a few pressure and temperature being some of the most common that we run into. You can have switches that are manually activated, it's also also very common, so uh and then some switches, uh use compound logic where you have um. You know multiple things have to happen for a switch to open or close as well call those super combiners where you're combining more than one thing in order to create a particular action.

We do that all the time in grocery in order to initiate a defrost or whatever the case may be. You have multiple things going on at once that uh that changed the system's operation - that's it that was that was in there for you, chad, a little super combiner reference and my wife is taking a picture of me bryn's. Looking at me, through the through the glass there, all right so switches can have single or multiple poles. Uh poles would be the number of contacts.

This is where it gets really uh. It gets kind of confusing, because the way i like to think about it is in terms of um, i like to think of the the pole as being the part that connects through it. That's a that's one way of thinking about it um, but, however, however, you think about it in order to get the answer right, um that works for me. So we've talked about this already.

Let's see here all right, so these are schematics of showing switches. In the closed position, so this one not used as much in what we see in residential, but that indicates a closed switch, a normally closed position. This one indicates a normally closed contact. We also have a normally closed switch here and then open switches, normally open, normally open, normally open, all right, so single pole, single, throw being the most common single pole, single, throw uh, normally closed single pole, single, throw normally open single pole, double throw so it can Throw in multiple directions and that's how i think about that.

So i think of this again as as my pull and it's throwing in two different directions and then double pull double throw. You have two sets of poles and each one uh has double throws and that's that's kind of, because some people, when they first see this thing well, i actually have. I actually have four throws. Well, no, it's.

It's still only double throw per pole. So, anyway, any questions about any of that before i move on yeah. What are you going to use? The double throws. What would that be inside of our units yeah, so um like this double pull double, throw that we show down here um.

That would be a very common 9340 relay and a 9340 relay can be used for multiple different um, multiple different applications, but you can use it for the one that they often use as an example is lockout circuits which we haven't gotten into yet, and i'm not Going to explain that exactly those aren't really that common anymore um, at least not for what we see in equipment. But for example, you know you could have a uh even just something as simple as an indicator light. So an indicator light is normally on and then it goes off when something else changes you know it's there's a lot of different reasons why you might want to use it and, and the most common reasons are actually weird things that we come up with in order To solve particular problems that we're having with a piece of equipment where we're combining two different um, two different things together. So a really common version of a single pole, double throw, would be a three-way switch in a house that would be um like a really common application.

So in the case of a three-way switch, you would take two three-way switches. Two single-pole double throw switches and you would connect the um the throw sides to each other and then you'd you know in and out, and that's how you get that effect of where either one can turn the light on or off uh. That's the most common example that we see and another another case where we use these types of um single pole. Double throw designs are when we're wiring up um heat strip interlocks um, that's another common one and again that's from the factory they wire them.

That way, and so it it allows it to automatically bring the blower on whenever the heat is on um. I have a whole nine panel on how that works. It's not easy for me to explain just showing it with a picture like this, but there certainly are cases i mean the majority of what we're going to do is going to be um. You know only so most commonly we're going to see single pole, single, throw or double pole single, throw so like a a standard.

Two pole contactor is a double pole, single, throw rather than double pull double throw. Does that answer your question? I could just keep doing. Okay, it works whenever you ask questions, i just talk until you all get tired and then and just say, fancy words, and then you be quiet and then i can keep talking again, which is great. It works perfectly for me all right, um, so yeah more examples.

Double pole, single, throw that would be our typical double pole. Contactor, it's going to look like this double pole, double throw and we have normally closed normally open. You know you can have all kinds of different configurations. This is a three pole single throw.

That would be a standard three pole like a three-phase contactor, just as an aside um, where we can use what we call a plus one contactor everybody's seen these, where you have a contactor, that's got one. What has one set of contacts on it? But then the other side is just a straight pole on it. So it's really only a single pole contactor, whereas we can use that in residential. In three phase, you always have to break all three, because if you don't break all three and three phase that motor will still try to run and that's something that we call single phasing.

So in three phase applications you're always going to be breaking all three. All three legs i say always whenever i say always, there's always some example uh exception to always that i'm not thinking of and somebody's like. Well actually, there's this watching my bobby that does use thingamajiggy, i'm like oh dang it. So i always have to call that out, but anyway you got to break all three, because you don't want a single phase.

You don't want to just run on two legs, all right so in this uh in this illustration, and we got a pair of safety switches. Rs2 is a temperature safety. You can see that we've talked about that before and uh afs2 is a pressure switch. So this is a normally closed.

Actually so, let's say the whole thing single pole: single, throw normally closed, open on fall pressure activated switch right, so i did one. No it's one of you do the next one. What is this? Anybody want to take that on uh single pull single, throw normally closed, open on a rise? What yes nailed it you've done it by golly, i'm so proud, never been a prouder papa! Oh boy! There's potato man again! Oh geez! It's terrifying! All right! So on this one, we've got a single pole: double throw temperature activated, so it's normally closed uh in one position and normally open to the other position. So that's that's where it kind of gets tricky is that a switch isn't always just normally closed, normally open.

In this case, it's normally closed to the bottom position and it's normally open to the top position. So as the temperature rises, then it's going to make um to that top, and this would be a limit switch or a fan control. It's sort of a an old-school way that we used to control furnaces was through a uh. We called a fan limit, which was a really cool thing that was still out there in our market.

When i started in the trade, i'm sure jessica's husband has worked on some of these fan limit switches, not saying that you're old or anything, i'm just saying. You've probably worked on a fan limit before he sure has see there you go there. You go good old natural draft furnaces. I mean, there's nothing better, nothing better than some natural convection who needs these dad burned, inducer fans.

You know what i mean. You know what i'm saying you hear me all right so uh that is it before break we're gon na go ahead and take a quick, uh, 15 minute break and i'm going to end the youtube live stream. That was just a quick little look in for you all, thanks for watching and uh. This is the sort of stuff that we do two times a week.

Don't usually do it on zoom, but we're right before thanksgiving, and we are true believers warriors really. I mean really warriors - i mean you know, let's be real honest doing two hours on zoom, that is just absolute uh killer stuff. So anyway, thanks for joining us and uh we're going to take a 15 minute break now.