Many homeowners when getting quotes for HVAC equipment to be installed in their home, have a hard time comparing the different quotes and the different efficiencies of the systems. In this video, Joshua Griffin breaks down the efficiency categories that systems should fall in when comparing those systems. Ratings on particular systems are ineffective when comparing those systems because of the type of technologies that are being installed and systems today. SEER, SEER2, EER, and HSPF ratings are not always a good representation of whether a system is better than another at saving energy.
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#hvac #heatpump #inverterhvac

Are you having trouble comparing heating and air systems? Maybe you're getting some quotes from some different contractors you're getting. Maybe some good, better best type quotes? Maybe some of them are throwing out verbiage or different words that you're not quite sure what they're saying. We're gonna break it down real easy in this video. How you can compare different quotes easily and know exactly what you're looking at.

Who am I my name is Josh I host the HVAC guide for homeowners YouTube channel And let's get right to it. How can we break this down super easy? Essentially, we're going to break it down into three categories. and we're going to be comparing air conditioners and heat pump systems. We're not going to talk about furnaces in this video.

We've done that in other videos. check those out if you haven't seen them. But because there is an array of different products out there and different types of systems, to make it simple, we're going to break it down into three categories. I Do want to quickly say though, as we go through this, there are exceptions to every rule.

So there might be a few times when you know I might say something and in your situation it might be a little different. but this will give you a general overall idea of how to do this. So here are the three categories. The first is single stage systems, single stage heat pump, single stage air handlers.

And with those types of systems, when the system turns on, there's a just an either on or off. It's almost like a light switch. There's no in between and that light is either on or it's off. Next category is staged systems.

So two stage, three stage. I've. seen some systems have even more stages than that, but essentially it's a staged system and the idea would be instead of that on or off like the single stage, there's going to be some in-betweenies there. Maybe instead of running at a hundred percent capacity and zero, maybe there's a 70 percent.

Maybe It's a two-stage system that goes to First Stage being 70 percent and then second stage being a hundred percent. So that's the second category. and then the third category is inverter systems. and we're gonna dive more into inverter systems and how to compare those aside from everything else, because there's a lot of companies out there making inferior products, inferior technology in comparison to other systems, and they want to put them all under the same umbrella.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The other thing I Want to point out is we're not talking about Sear or CR2 ratings. We're not talking about Eer or Hspf in this video. That's something you can look at if you break them down into those categories, but it's not something you necessarily want to be looking at from the get-go In other words, if you're looking at a system from the first category and a system from the third category and they have very similar ratings.

As far as Seer or Hspf, there's still a big difference there. Now, if you're comparing two systems and they are in the same category, then you can start to look at more of those ratings to try to break them down. Another example I'll throw out there is Daikin makes their dike and fit. It's only 17 Seer or 17c or two depending on the match up, depending on what the indoor unit is.
But let's just say for sake of argument, it's only 17 Seer And you're comparing it. To say some of the other brands make a two-stage 17 Seer system that's a trash can style where the air blows out the top Well, the reason I wouldn't want you to compare those two systems is because the other system is significantly less efficient in comparison. It's got a much larger coil and that's how it's getting that higher sear rating. It's got such a large coil, it's got more air going across that coil, But the technology itself is inferior.

Now, we're going to talk about why that is. So we've got our three categories: the first one being on or off, single stay, age, second one being staged meaning on or off or some in-betweenies And then that third stage inverter systems have the ability to have a lot of in between. There are times when that system might only be barely running on a mild day, it's running at a very low speed, still keeping your home comfortable whether it's in heating or Cooling and it's just barely running, drawing very little energy. And I would almost equate it to say like a dimmer switch on a light where you could set that dimmer where it's just barely on at times.

And so again, if you're getting quotes and you've gotten different quotes and people are throwing single stage systems and inverters multi-stage Whatever whatever categories they fall in, if they're not in the same category, I would just know that it's a less efficient product. Meaning, if it's in the first category, it's going to be less efficient than the products in the second and third, and if it's a product in the second category, it's going to be in general La less efficient than the products in the third category. Now, there is an exception to that rule and I said at the beginning of the video, we were going to break down inverter systems. Let's do that right now.

Inverter systems in general. Yes, they all have the capability of ramping up and down, but there are newer products on the market that are using what I would say is a less efficient, less ability type technology. And the reason is they're able to sell an inverter system at a lower price. They don't have the capability of some of the others, and how do you know which ones are which? Essentially, there's a word that you're looking for.

and that word is communicating Or communication. And what that means is if you are comparing systems with a regular thermostat, a single stage system that is using one of these thermostats. Essentially, there's just a bunch of switches in there, and those switches are going to close depending on what mode it's in, depending on what the temperature is in the room, and depending on what you have it set at different switches will close to turn it into different modes. And that's the sort of technology that these non-communicating inverter systems are using.
And so those systems. You know they look at other things. They'll look at the pressures or the coil temperature, and that's how it will ramp up and down and decide what speed that inverter needs to run at. Because it's not communicating because it doesn't actually have the ability for the indoor unit to talk to the outdoor unit, or the outdoor unit to talk to the thermostat or any combination thereof.

Because there's no actual communication going on there, it still just switches. Closing thermostat says, hey, it's hot in here. It closes a few switches that inverter turns on. It says, hey, it's kind of hot outside.

Let's just ramp up. That coil is not coming back. Very cool. That temperature is a little hotter than what I would normally want.

Let's ramp up. And that's essentially in a nutshell how those systems work. Cool technology. It just doesn't equate to the same abilities that those communicating systems have.

And because of that they're not as efficient. I've seen some of the systems that are non-communicating inverter systems be very inefficient in the grand scheme of things. Nowhere near the same capability as communicating inverter systems out there. In fact, I would even say they're less efficient than some of the stage systems out there.

At least the stage system is going to almost Force itself. If that thermostat says you need to be running in first stage, there are times when that system is going to just run in first stage, it's going to run at a lower capacity. But those non-communicating inverter systems Because of the way they're made, there are times when they are a little less efficient than even that. Hopefully, I'm not losing you here.

I'm trying to break it down again: the three categories. when there are products that fall in those categories: The Only Exception So far we've talked about is that inverter category. If it's a non-communicating inverter, that's okay. It's just understanding.

It's not the same as if you were comparing it to another other communicating inverter system. So if you're getting two quotes and let's say company A gives you a Daikin high efficiency communicating inverter system and then Company B gives you say one of these non-communicating inverters and their price is a little better. Just realize, well, you know you're kind of getting what you pay for. There, it's a less efficient system.

It doesn't have the same abilities and the last thing I'll say is if you do narrow it down and you get systems broken into categories you're ignoring Seer you're ignoring all these other ratings and you break it down to those categories as you're looking at all that Once you do get it broken down into those categories, then you can start to look at some of these other ratings. But until you get it broken down into those three categories, it's not fair to compare some of these systems to one another because they're getting to those ratings in other ways such as having a larger coil or some sort of technology to squeeze a little bit more efficiency out of that system. anyway. I Hope this helps, hopefully way I haven't confused you even more.
I've just noticed when I'm helping folks on our website new Hvacguide.com where we help folks in the pursuit of buying a heating and air system or folks that join us on our live shows on Tuesday nights which we do every Tuesday night on our YouTube channel. You can join us live and ask heating and air questions. but when I'm helping folks in those two places I've noticed that there's a little bit of confusion there that they'll say, well, you know it is an inverter system, but the Seer rating isn't as high so you know I'm going to go with this system over here instead. Save a little money here and get maybe just as high, or maybe even higher of a sear or Hspf or whatever the rating is.

They're looking at understanding those three categories and understanding there is a clear discrepancy of abilities between those three categories: the single stage, the multi-stage and the communicating inverter systems is how I would break those down. Anyway, let me know your thoughts. Comment down below: Love to hear about those. Have you had confusion? Have you been comparing systems and you weren't quite sure what you were looking at? Love to hear about that? If you like this video? I Think you'll like this one even more.

It's where we talk about the three biggest issues that ductwork has, and most residential systems and homeowners should know about those. Thanks for watching. Hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time.


11 thoughts on “3 hvac efficiency types explained!”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Trammell Stewart says:

    Great info!
    I’d like for you to look into the Samsung Hylex and compare that style to a traditional unitary non communicating inverter and a communicating unit.

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Gayle Friedman says:

    Mr. Josh;
    Excellent!
    Question:
    I have a Residential
    A/C which has all up-to-date parts. I fixed as necessary.
    Now, since it's been overwhelming hot in this year's summer, I notice my A/C running much longer. I sometimes add a 1/3 cup of water to the water pipe, and within a few minutes, my entire system cooled down my Apartment. Why would this happen? My A/C Coils were just cleaned, A/F is New.I watch over this unit when I notice different sounds. Your system has a healthy sound when working correctly. Is water a need during very hot summer months?
    Thank You!🥵

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars GeoMac Granddad says:

    I think our biggest impediment to enlightenment is distraction. That's marketing's bailiwick. They want you throwing around words you think you understand, but really don't. Inverter? Communicating? ISO9000?

    The thing to know is computer control. Computers just follow instructions (when they're working) and those instructions are written by people like me. Check this binary input (switch), check this analog input value (voltage). If this, then that, else the other. That's what's happening. And that's what matters. So watch the marketing hype calling things that when we are honest with ourselves we really don't understand.

    Take the inverter for example. What percentage of HVAC techs can block diagram the internal functions of an inverter circuit? Not that they need to but it's disingenuous to throw the word around as if one did. The idea of computer control opens up possibilities that would be out of reach with mechanical switch logic. The inverter is a way to synthesize a variable frequency, variable voltage, current limited three phase power supply. Now we connect a computer to command those three variables and you have motor control (hopefully good).

    The issue I have is that I don't have access to the code that decides everything, nor even to the constants. I'd be a lot more comfortable with a comprehensive flowchart and the ability to modify code and parameters.

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars M says:

    Hey Josh, you've talked about the Bosch Lynx 18 Seer inverter system. Would you expect it to be less efficient than day a Daikin since as far as I know the Lynx 18 isn't communicating…

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ken Cleg says:

    Day & night or Goodman ? 15.2/15.5 7 k need 2. What would u put in your house ?

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jason Ong says:

    What’s your 2 cents for window type HVAC?

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Michael W. Perry says:

    Back in the 70s I worked as an electrician for the now departed J. E. Mitchell Co., which made the Mark IV after-market car A/Cs. We had a conference room that was used once a month for employee meetings. It was just under a tar roof and in Dallas summers it got very hot. To cool it we had a small A/C system that we started up Friday afternoon. It chilled the water in a tank about the size of a standard pickup truck. On Monday morning that chilled water could be put to work cooling down the conference room for the afternoon meeting. It was a marvelous way to do a lot with a little.

    —I've often wondered if the same idea could be adapted to modern home and business A/Cs, particularly in places where the nights are much cooler than the days. Each night when the outside has cooled enough, a simple but efficient compressor would work continuously cooling down an insulated tank in the basement. No need for complicated stages or stopping and starting. Once the proper temperature was reached, it would shut down, giving the compressor a one cycle a day labor. The next day a simple chilled pumping water system would cool the house with that water. The chilling temperature could be adjusted for hot or warm weather. The cool left over from one night would be available for the next. It would have other advantages. In heat waves when power is in short supply, it would cool a building while only drawing enough power to pump water. In winter, simply reverse the process.

    —Questions: 1. Does anyone make a system like that? 2. Has anyone tested the efficiency of such a system particularly in dry climates with hot days and cool nights> 3. What do you think of the idea? My hunch is that it might give a simple system the efficiency of a complex one.

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Philip P says:

    Daikin Fit needs to make an indoor coil that can replace the First Air coils Are you in Ottawa ?

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars GeoMac Granddad says:

    I'm skeptical of the marketing. Is there any HVAC sales/service person who can define a "seer"? I don't mean tell me what the letters stand for, everyone knows that, I mean the calculation part of it. Energy efficiency is simply energy out/energy in. So how's a "seer" calculated?

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Saint Nificent says:

    I have a question.
    I just had a Mirage mini split installed for my garage a week ago.
    The outside unit on the left side does not have a grill over the thin blue cooling fins.
    They already have a dink in them.
    I'm thinking about putting one of those decorative slatted covers over the whole unit to protect the fins. Good or bad idea? Service area Kanata??

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Tom Griebe says:

    All true until it breaks down, then all the money you saved with efficiency gets used to pay for a super expensive repair.

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