So today I'm gon na be working on my own house again. I know I do a lot of stuff in my own house, but my house is only two years old and I have a lot of kids as many of you know, and we installed an energy recovery ventilator, and we also have some really good carrier Mitsubishi equipment In the house, but I'm still having a hard time getting my relative humidity, where I want it to be a lot of times. It creeps up to 58 %, I'd like to keep it 55 percent between 50 and 55 percent relative humidity in the home, and I bet what I've actually done on my Infinity system. Is I've set it up to run the electric heat to dehumidifier, which is kind of an extreme thing to do? It costs a lot more power than using a separate supplementary dehumidifier, so I'm going to be installing a supplementary two humidifier first thing: I'm gon na do is actually walk.

The house with Jonathan Jones he's expert in the humidity space works with ultra air and then also clean comfort, which is the particular brand I'm going to be using at my house today. We're gon na walk through and just kind of talk about some of the different applications and come up with a solution. Alright, so we just arrived here at my place. We're gon na do some gon na do a little bit of testing today, but we're also gon na look at the Attic.

I've got a encapsulated attic and I've got with me today. Jonathan Jonathan's, with thermistor news, say hi, Jonathan Jonathan and then i've got max and less and then salim ET. I guys you can follow it. You can follow me in here.

My wife loves it. When I walk into the house already - recording you know: hey kids, so these are. These are my these are my kids. I don't show them much on video, I like how you're peeking around the quarter so you'll see my I, like my structured media media panel here.

I've done really nice things with. It here looks pretty good, pretty crowded, alright, my equipment, wartime carrier and my Mitsubishi mvz. So this is this is my. This is my homemade homemade supply docto.

Here, I'm really I'm really being transparent here: okay, okay, folks, I don't want to hear it it's my own house. I can do it. I want this is America the way you want? It is freefall a free draw from upstairs and has a return, pull and then go into both up into both of these supply items here, to distribute it evenly depending on how your areas right, so we will do about two thirds on the four-ton than two tons. The two tons system get two remaining: hang it up upstairs that we don't get the resignation from the compressors me and you should be good isolated like that, but the free pull return will hit the highest humidity point being the attic right now I pull it out.

It's still distributed throughout the entire house. You think you might wait. You may so in this case, we're probably just going to use the traditional strike and print better. So you can make a unique special kid rod.

Yeah. You can use the strut and all thread if it's readily available. Of course, we do have a hanging kit with pulley systems on each corner. That way, one person can do it by themselves right.

So if they're in a low leverage point or if it's just one person by themself, they go around and they adjust the pulleys as needed to get the fall to the drain and they set it. Forget it. It's still uh, you know, drilling trusses is always sort of a greater I'm smiling right now, but you know, and so does your does your your pulley system does that require any drilling or you step off those okay, you're still gon na. Have that but again it's not launch straps versus having rigidness going throughout the entire hanging system, so it will dead in the noise of the vibration of the reservation feel of it.

The thing to do in stress is, if you don't want to, if you don't want to drill them at all, so what do you think as far as a control goes? Should we because that space is sort of a strange space out there? It's it's? It's kind of separate from the rest of the house. Can we put a control here on the wall somewhere or what even, what you can do? Is you can again, we have the remote system, the dh3 has an art, it's a puck and it's about two inches in diameter, but you can run it down and put it inside of a turnip, lintel or inside of return. Citroen will return and filter earth put it inside of it and it could read it from the space and the controller could still be mounted upstairs. That way it would be pulling the humidity from here, but then those set it and forget it controls upstairs yeah.

So you could, how does that just RF communication, great frequency or is it while you're going to yeah? That's water Billy's, my support systems, so it is a four wire system just for the fact that wireless technology is so right. Well, that's gon na! Actually, I actually prefer it to be white, a lot of people like the idea of that. So in this case that would be pretty easy if I'm looking at here, because I can just no no don't look at my wires people. Okay, I know it's a mess.

All right to my own house, so we can just drop a wire down in and then into the engine return. That's underneath here and put it in and be pretty easy. Yeah just pull you 18a down through here and then put the hook inside the return and headrail note, and then you catch it into the control. We're upstairs to the headaches place.

Just from a sensible patient that I got playing, I told you there are 18 here. Isn't bad but it's because I'm running reheat to the humidifier! So if I didn't have that running, I'm sure I'd be a lot worse off. I'm sure your your ring so you're gon na notice that there's some things that make this application different than a lot of other applications, one of the most common questions that we get is. Where should I connect the dehumidifier? How do I actually duct it in, and you really want the least amount of static pressure that you can have, but you want to be humidified air to be distributed where you need it and so a lot of cases.

The easiest way to do it is to run a return separate for the dehumidifier, that's really close to the dehumidifier and then duct your dehumidifier air, into the supply duct. But then you have to use a back draft damper so that way, when the dehumidifier goes off, you don't have air forcing back through it from the equipment. That's important in my particular case. I have this kind of open room that I can free draw from and I have two different systems where I'd like to add two humidified air, so I'm just ducting into both of them.

You definitely want to look at the specific application to decide how you're gon na hang the system and how you're gon na duct it and don't necessarily follow exactly what I did in my particular case. So les and I are discussing the some of the finer points of the installation and he was expressing go ahead - express your concern. You don't need to put on your video voice. It's okay, you can just talk to me like you.

Just work know that one of the biggest concerns is trying to hang these things from trusses with with all threaded. You know straw right, so it's just trying to make sure that they're gon na be with the Isolators. It's going to be a good firm foundation. So right during vibration.

Well, you brought it he probably a good time right. You brought up a good point, which is that because, in our case, we're usually hanging them off of strut hung by all thread, so you get unit struck end or whatever. You want to call it hung by all thread, but then, if you put the pan on top of that, and then you put the unit in the pan that humidifier in the pan and you place the feet over the strut if it were to vibrate over and Get into the Pam material the pans not going to be strong enough to support it right, so I think the way to do it if you're gon na hang them is to put a piece of plywood under the pan and that's what you said you've been doing So put a piece of plywood under the pan and place the pan down and then place the unit in the pan end it right, but in this case I don't know, maybe we should just just build a platform. Max is ready.

Ricardo Ricardo is always ready. Yeah, absolutely all right, so I'm gon na go up here. We go okay. I've got a really noisy fan here.

This is my kids graffiti. This is Sal Sal sound known from his amazing braising skills. We call him the amazing amazing brazier all right, so we got our ductless unit here, I'm going to show you this good stuff, so all right! So real quick here! This is my house. Okay, I do what I want.

I wanted it to drain straight down and I didn't feel like putting wine cover over it. Normally. We would definitely do this with lime cover, but what I'm actually gon na do in this room, because it's like just a kid's playroom - is I'm gon na paint this? What like roots and then like a tree trunk and then up here, I'm gon na, do like leaves so it's like a tree. It's gon na be really artistic got max.

We got, we got sow, we got less, we got Ricardo, we got. Did I say we didn't say Luke yeah Luke removed a panel here, hey one thing that I just learned that I didn't know before is this is actually closed cell foam. I thought we got open cell foam, but then I was I just went up and I poked it. What you're, not supposed to do with open cell break my finger on that stuff? That is closed cell phone.

So that explains why it was so friggin expensive, but it is actually cool. Closed cell foam is actually kind of nice because it makes the wall you can you're a structural and actually add structural rigidity to the wall. So in the case of a hurricane come visit me okay, anyway, we're talking about dehumidifier. So what do you think unless so we're gon na? Hang it here? We're gon na free draw return it on this case.

The way we get things going, we'll just put a couple support membrane, would add the drain. Pan then put the dehumidifier in the pan. I think I could just kind of plug in from there all right all right. So it's kind of interesting question attaching to trusses.

So I want to be clear here. This is the sort of thing that I would probably consult an engineer on if I was doing in a customer's house, but since this is my house, I'm not really concerned about it, but it is, you know in Florida we have these engineer, trust designs and sometimes They get kind of freaky about you doing anything other than through top cord, but if my choices are making a hole through top cord of truss or you know so, making a hole through top chord of truss or in this case just building a platform. I think I'm gon na go ahead and build a platform now. The downside here is that there could be a little more vibration conducted into into the trust itself.

So, if like, if this was over a customer's house in a customer's house over there master bedroom, I probably would be more careful with that. But in this case I think it'll be best just to put a platform, make it easier to work on yeah yeah, yeah yeah I buy it so so we're gon na have a free drawer turn out the back. We're gon na. Have the supplies go in and tie into the two different, the upstairs and downstairs supply duct work, we're going to.

We have to add an outlet. That'll be that'll, be pretty easy. We already have a circuit up here, so there we have it. The the supply is 10-inch on this and we're gon na add in a back draft at the Klean comfort makes the the controller they make the dehumidifier and they make the back draft damper as well right.

The backup dampers from them right, link, conferences, yeah, all right cool, so getting a back draft damper and then we're gon na have to we're going to have a Y and we're gon na have to eight-inch ducts that go to the upstairs and downstairs. That's just the way, I'm doing it, because my supply ducts are both there. It's kind of an ideal situation to go into the system supply, but then have your own return attached, like just literally just attach the control up here somewhere or something. Let me take a yeah, I think we'll just yeah, we'll just put it up here: yep yep, yep yep.

It is a weird thing that moisture tends to collect at the peak of the roof. Did you have you heard that max that moisture? Do you have you heard a good explanation of why that is because I've never heard I've never heard a good explanation of why that happens anyway, it does tend to happen. Yeah. Did you know that so yeah so yeah, because the water vapor is less dense in a good point, I just noticed my my truss hairs is breaking hey.

Nobody worried I'd, be worried. We just have a little dangerous yeah. That's where les comes over and does pull-ups no baby, it's manufactured by ultra air american-made and good old Wisconsin, good ol US of A hey. Did you see tell him how I lifted it up just with one arm up these stairs yeah yeah, just yeah huh yeah.

All right so you've got the supply, and then you get the return. This is designed to work with fresh air as well. I'm not gon na bring in any fresh tree right now, because I'm lazy, but I probably will eventually through it. I've already got an ERV on my house.

It's got a nice pleated filter in it. Two inch pleated filter that you can access from either side, which is good, so we're gon na put it in this orientation. No wait! Yeah, that's gon na be the other orientation. So it's gon na be faced that way, so making shirts level is like of the utmost importance and then also the drainage part, because I mean in practical, retrofit applications you're going to be installing these in less than ideal situations quite often, and the drain is the Part that you can't get wrong.

So you have to make sure that if this overflows in the pan, it's going to shut off the equipment or it's going to drain to another location. And then you also have to think about wherever it's going to. Because in a lot of cases, you're going to be kind of forced to use another drain like in my house right here, so my options are, I could punch out a wall and run down 30 feet on the outside of my house, which my wife would then Divorce me or I can tie into an existing drain in this case we're going to tie into. I have a heat pump water heater, we're going to tie into that overflow, but if it backs up down there it has to still shut off the equipment.

So that's a big piece of what we've got to do here is make sure that you get the drain right. So this is the back draft damper. My stance on this is you want this to kind of open and close really easily, and it was getting stuck just a little bit. So I'm going to trim off a little bit of the material here where it was where it was hitting the sides just to make sure, because even if it, if it leaks back a little bit, that's less of a concern than having it get stuck.

Because you know hey them, basically, the reason you have to have it is because I'm tying it as supply duct work, and so, if the unit's running the AC equipments running and the dehumidifiers, not then it could be prone to force some air, so you'd lose some Of your air back through your dehumidifier, which isn't an ideal circumstance, but a little bit of leakage isn't gon na hurt anything. So I would rather fall to the side of having a little bit of leakage than then have it get stuck. I'm gon na do a little trim, all right so fresh air damper that we're not using, because I don't have a fresh air return, and this is my name backdraft damper working on the dehumidification controller. Let's see it max.

So what are the terminals here max common? I think, do you think yeah, okay and the other one is 24 volts and then the rest are labeled, compressor and fan, or what we're going to you are going to use today and then the damper. If we had one okay, if you had like a 24 volt ampere, then I so I want to make. Do you have any of those plugs like those red plugs or whatever I want to make a port, so we can test the supply air temperature right. I'm sure we could do it anywhere.

Probably does that actually that's much just levy right here. Does that really need putting together the drain control this wired up, we're just like, I said we're just free drawing from the back here. Eventually, if we ever decide to close in these walls and we'll put a big side wall or L up here somewhere, but they've got it coming out here, we've got the backflow damper flex going to a Y good old, good old Florida flex. I know I'm gon na hear it from all y'all doing around.

This is our supply for the upstairs and then we turn it over here for our supply for the downstairs. So just tiny bit the boat. Are you guys? Are you guys a vans clothes? Because I hear the rain does that rain? We don't have either of those all right, so we got our vent. This is an important piece here.

You got to make sure that your of it don't got it. Okay, don't got it, don't get it don't cut it! Keep your vent nice and high like that, because if the drain ever backs up, you want it to back up into the equipment and tryptophan, and so, if you cut your vent anywhere close to this level, I mean you can cut it there and still be okay. But I prefer to just leave it nice and tall. So that way, we don't have any worries, but you do up to glue so clean out trap and then vent, especially when you're going into a drain with something else and also make sure to strap it.

Is you don't want it to sang on you they're connecting the drain downstairs now you know connecting drains is on the humidifier is kind of a tricky business like I mentioned before, and so in this case we're actually going into the water heater overflow drain, because I Have a heat pump, water heater? Oh! You strap him down here and we made we made two holes. What two holes nummy all right, so we've got the wire it's going down to a pan switch! That's gon na go into this water heater! Pan! It's going to be wired in series with the other switch for that upstairs pan, because if this drain backs up into this pan, we need to make sure that this is also kind of shut. The humidifier off, because we're going into this in this common train, which again you know you, don't want to go into common drains with other equipment if you can help it put in some cases, you just don't have a whole lot of options. So Sal - and I were just talking about this - the reason why we have to put a pan switch here too, is because, if it backs up because we're going into a common drain, it will fill here before it fills up there.

So the so the pan that we're putting up there that's raised about hey, I'm in fan, I'm gon na put up just to return there, but upstairs that pan of there is only there in case like the drain, pan overflows on that basic equipment. For some reason this this pan here is the one that's gon na fill up. If we have a backup because of how does it cover the piping and increasing the water heater overflow drain, so we've got these wearing up Fury's. So that way, if this opens it'll shut it off and then the pan switch here, so it comes out through here through here and then back I was gon na.

Do the honors of plugging her in go ahead, sell plug her in try not to screw it. Try not to screw it up. Okay, you might get if we get a big job for you here. That bottom thing goes into the demo.

There you go. Oh, no, okay, all right! You don't want all right there we go. Oh there we go. Oh there we go.

No, you just messing with myself: it's not wanting to stay on there, yeah Wow yeah man that is really loud set this sucker down to 46 percent iron. I won't do that. Let's do 48 percent yeah. Well, it really is quiet.

Even on this membrane here you know yeah, that's not yeah! I was worried about it conducting down in, but it's not very, very quiet. Alright, so we got the using the test. Oh 442, just see what we've got on this and you can see we're outputting. Twenty four point: seven percent relative humidity, 97 degrees and bringing in eighty degrees at 53 percent relative humidity, so we're definitely pulling moisture.

A lot of people ask how a dehumidifier works. It's actually very simple. So within here we've got a compressor, condenser metering device evaporator like every other piece of AC equipment, and what happens is the air when it comes in is first it goes over. The evaporator coil, so it comes in here goes over the evaporator coil hits.

Dew point drops moisture and then it goes over the condenser reheats it and then actually comes out warmer than it went in, because you have the energy associated with the compressor and fans and everything else, which is why you have higher temperature coming out. Then you have coming in and so some some people think that this is going to actually help cool the house. It won't from a sensible standpoint. It is going to remove moisture, so it's going to remove latent heat, but it's not going to decrease your overall heat in the home.

It's gon na actually add to it. So you have to make sure that we have a system that will be able to handle it, and the customer will still be comfortable from the sensible side when you add in a humidifier, so you just got ta just got to make sure that have that conversation With your customer that it is going to help with comfort, it's gon na help, especially with moisture issues, IAQ issues, but you got to make sure the system can handle that additional amount of heat added alright. So there we go for a pan switch. We had to make sure that this section here is pitched back this way, which it is we are draining it and get that another green pan, it's not dripping yet.

This is actually the heat pump water heater, that's dripping. So this is a pretty big trap to fill, so we got to watch this and run it until it drains, but we definitely see water coming out the tee right now you always got to make sure that it actually drains. We did test the safeties to both of them to make sure that they shut deeper than often those both work drains drains drain. So you can wire the dehumidifier fan to run separate from the compressor, then cool.

So you used like typical right. So you use typical wire code, hot common compressor and fan, and they they have a slightly different color code right, but ultimately it matters whether you've connecting them at the right point. Okay, so if you are driving a damper, 24 volt dampers, their compressor 24 volt call they're, showing blue, but we use yellow just to keep the same as what we normally do. And then a fan is green.

And what were you saying about the? What were you saying about yellow versus red that it does matter all right? So this is 24 volt hot wait. No, I see you're using red for comment, got it okay, yeah! So we, the way we've wired, it is red, is hot and then little is common. Okay, just to keep it consistent with what we normally do. Interesting.

Are you sorry alright, so with this, it shows it as a negative number when it's adding Heat so we're adding eighteen hundred and sixty BTUs an hour which was just talking with Jonathan Jones from thermistor who makes this unit and he was saying you can easily make Up for that, by just increasing your fan, speed and changing your sensible heat ratio a little bit if you need to if you're on the edge and supplier is 99 degrees, turn air is six. Seventy eight point: six. Twenty four percent relative humidity in the supply 55 and the return - and this is an example on an air conditioner. When you check the supply relative humidity, the supply relative humidity will be higher than the return relative humidity.

In our case, it's lower, even though we're actually adding Heat, we're pulling moisture all right. There we go, we've got Conlan, city-owned got a lotta, got a lot of moisture coming out of this house right now. That's what we like to see lots of moisture. So that's it installation of a clean, comforting, humidifier here at my house, a really nice unit very well built right here in the USA, big thanks to Sal and target sales for setting this up and big thanks to Jonathan Jones.

He wasn't able to make it back for the installation, but he's the one who made all this happen all right. So now it's been about a week since installing the dehumidifier in just about a week and I've noticed that it's been dropping in humidity over time like it didn't, drop right away. It's taken it some time, but I've seen some trends of it. Definitely reducing so right now.

We're looking at the screen of this is a foo bot, which is an indoor air quality, monitor that I have downstairs in my house. It's actually, you know as far away's you can be from the dehumidifier and I've watched it trend down and relative humidity at all times of the day, and you can see down bottom left is relative. Humidity bottom right is temperature and then also I've seen a decrease in fine particles and volatile organic compounds. So let's see here if we can look at the relative humidity trend, and so if you look at days you'll notice that there has been a trend downward.

So it started off at 55 and then down to 53 and then down to 52, as the average relative humidity goes, and with that I've definitely noticed an increase in comfort, and I already have a really high-end system that has dehumidification mode. It has reheat to dehumidifier all that stuff. I have all of that, and I've still noticed an increase in comfort and definitely a drop in humidity. There's also been a drop in some of the particular matter as well, and so we haven't.

We had a little spike in particulate matter last week when my son burned some food for dinner, but other than that. We've definitely seen a good trend in the particular matter side of things as well as well as the VOCs. So all in all, I think it makes a lot of sense to look at supplementary name unification whenever you find that the AC equipment just isn't doing the job, especially on edge seasons, right now we're in the hotter season. So you know I'm not going to see as much benefit when the equipment's running all the time, but when you get into those edge seasons where it's rainy, but it's not hot outside that's when it really makes a big difference.