This was a no cooling call on a Carrier package unit that had multiple restrictions in the metering devices, I defrosted the unit and submitted a quote to the customer.
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This video is brought to you by spore'ln quality, integrity and tradition. We've got a carrier package unit. This is a little guy, it's probably a 5 ton, I'm guessing I'll. Look at the information right now complaining and it's not working pullout filters, and we are I stuff.
So I'm gon na get it defrosted real, quick, we're gon na shut down the unit and then we'll check it out and see what we can figure out. What's going on with this thing, so we're gon na open this guy up and we're just gon na pull the compressor, contactor control voltage and let the unit run with the indoor blower motor for a bit and I'm pretty sure I felt the indoor blower motor running Right now so we'll check it and we'll obviously check the belt yeah indoor pool our motors running so we're gon na. Let it defrost itself with this panel open right here and then we'll gauge up and figure out what's going on, so we are all defrosted we're gon na go ahead and start this guy up. So I have got returned air sensor down in here.
It's just stuck where it's getting a little bit of mix there, because this economizer is broken the damper, but someone has it jammed open. So I got it so it's getting the mixed air, the discharged air, I'm not gon na be able to get down in the ductwork. So I got to do at the side, the discharged spot right there and then obviously discharge pressure, suction temperature, liquid temperature. All that good stuff, so we're gon na start it up and see what happens.
So this is what we're looking at right now, it's approximately 88 degrees outside working on an AR 22 system, it's approximately 10 to 12 C R, it's probably in 2004. You know seen a house fixed, orifice metering devices you can see. Our subcooling is really high. Our super heats really high suction line.
Temp is high. Liquid line, temp is low. Our suction pressure is low. Our head pressure's a little bit high.
I'm thinking that we've got a plugged up metering device, it's very common on these things, judging from the way that it was iced up. So this is what measure quakes telling me, and I also am still a little unstable I cleared out and jumped in to the faults. It's very good possibility that we are overcharged a lot of times when there's a restriction such as what we I think we have people will overcharge to try to compensate and now as we're stabilising out we're still yeah subcooling is too high. Super heats too high.
I'm gon na let's go and look at the metering devices on this guy. So if we look back there, you can see that my metering devices are frosting up. That's because we have a plugged up fixed orifice metering devices very common on these carriers, so we're gon na have to give the customer a quote to change the metering device. You know, obviously they put a lot of money.
It looks like they've recently put a compressor into this thing, so uh yeah I'll have to see what they want to do. As usual, a big-picture diagnosis, often times these heat exchangers fail on these carrier units, it's very common, especially when we have poor ductwork like we always do so, I'm just visually inspecting the heat exchangers. I don't see any cracks. Surprisingly, don't see any holes again. That way, I can go to the customer and say: hey, you know you need a fixed, orifice metering device, but the heat exchangers, cracked or whatever. But in this case I don't see any problems. I'm not gon na like rip the thing apart and do combustion tests and stuff, but just doing a visual, and it looks okay. It just looks like it's gon na fail eventually, so we'll definitely let them know this.
Blower wheel could definitely use a Queenie and it's not horrible, but it's got quite a bit of dirt buildup on it. So we'll definitely make that part of our diagnosis. All right. This one was a pretty dead giveaway.
The moment that we saw the ice pattern on the evaporator whenever I see a nice pattern like that, it's usually indicative of a low refrigerant charge and or a fixed orifice metering device, often times you can see some funky ice patterns such as because that metering device Feeds into multiple circuits into that evaporator coil, so you might see, like Frost every other row of like after each fixed, orifice metering. You know piston or whatever so but yeah. So we had the super-high sub cooling, the super high superheat and then the weird frost, patter and it was just kind of a dead giveaway. You know, but still, like I said in the video I like to go big picture diagnosis and just kind of look at the rest of the unit in a perfect world, I'd love for them to change that unit and something that I get this question a lot.
It's not very practical to change package units here in Southern California. The customers end up having to spend likely four to five times the the repair cost to go ahead and replace that unit. So you know yeah it's and to you and I it seems like gosh. You know you they do look like they just put a compressor in that unit, so they probably spent you know quite a bit on that too.
But to them it's just at this point in time. What's it gon na take to fix this unit versus spending a lot of money up front and you know getting a warranty and having a longer life on the you know the new unit that they would install. But you know chain restaurants. They typically don't see it that way, and they just have to look at their budgets and see how much they have available at this moment in time.
So you know that's one of the things I really haven't addressed that too much in my comments when I ask when people ask me like why don't you know, I quoted a replacement. So, basically, when I give him the quote to fix this, I quoted a replacement to, and I said, here's your two options and the replacement cost was almost four times higher than the repair cost. So you know that the customer just basically has to do what they will with that, and you know in this particular case we're coming into the fall. It's it's the end of September right now, and the customer actually declined the repair at this time, just because they're they're low on funds as far as their budgets go right now, so they're, just gon na hold off until they get a complaint from the restaurant. Now they didn't want me to shut down the unit, so essentially that's just gon na lead to it freezing up again and water leaks. Let's hope that they don't damage that new compressor, but you know I mean we just got to do it. We got to do and you know the customer they just you know they have reasons why they make these decisions and I'm there to just basically do what I'm told and give them my sound advice. You know hate it be best if we fix this unit now before it causes problems later, but you know inevitably they're the ones that make that decision.
Okay, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to watch this video and all my other videos. It's such a trip to see the response that I get from you guys. You know we're going on a year and some change of, I think it's like a year and a half of making these videos or something like that. It's super cool and it's super humbling.
I'm thank you guys very much, okay, and I hope that what I deliver helps you guys in some way whether you know if you don't like my content, leave me some feedback. Let me know what you think I could do better, I'm always looking for feedback. I'm always looking to improve my troubleshooting skills, there's not a whole lot. I'm going to be able to do too improve my video shooting skills or video editing skills, because that's not my forte, but you know I'm always looking for advice on how it can be a better technician.
So please please. Let me know: okay, reminder that I do live streams every Monday, night work permitting 5:00 p.m. Pacific time, where I usually answer all the questions from these videos and from emails and from facebook comments so come tune in it's on my youtube channel and other than that. We will see you guys on the next one: okay,.
Had the same issue today. Spent all day replacing a grounded compressor. Only to find once i got it charged back up we had plugged metering devices too. Grrrrr.
Hey Chris, and all the other cool people here.
Is this more prevalent with R22?
I know that discharge temperatures get out of hand very fast when high head pressures, low suction pressures and high compression ratios are present on a system.
And then the oil produces gum which solidifies in the metering devices, or becomes solids that the liquid line filter gets.
I have seen this on badly designed abattoir boxes where the evaps and condensers were undersized, so a crankcase pressure regulator had been installed to get the condensing pressures down and the evap pressures up. but then you increase the compression ratio which catches up with you.
Gummed up liquid line cartridges and compressor failures due the acid produced by the oil breakdown under these temperatures.
R22 seems to point out the two issues I mentioned in line 2 very quickly.
I would not mind an objective reply to this one, as it is something that I experienced and cannot unsee.
Thanks for the awesome channel Chris, I am enjoy the experience of what you share immensely.
Kind regards,
Duncan, South Africa.
That ice on the evaporator coil could indicate multiple things and you can’t assume nothing until you inspect everything (filters, etc.) to diagnose the issue.
Hi Chris, noticed you referenced "subcooling" in your refrigerant circuit diagnosis. I have been inspecting a lot of Trane Voyager equipment largely with FM (short orifice) pistons and a few TXVs, but struggle in diagnosing restricted metering devices concretely as they have similar frost patterns and SH/evap temp pressure symptoms to a low charge condition. I have been encouraged to reference subcooling to "prove" that the unit has most or all of its charge, but struggle in that these aren't true measurements and therefore a crude way to diagnose. I'm speaking from a relative lack of experience, but the only solid indications I can find for "high side conditions" would be discharge pressure against a charging chart derived from load conditions. Again, I realize condenser and discharge pressure are closely linked, just curious your thoughts. Are you in Kanata ?
Problem is you live in CA…everything has to be the highest EER available…
Man I know the feeling…Restaurants dont ever wanna here the replacement word..Always just repair it
I like the videos when show how you're "wrong" because I learn more and better.
I’m extremely thankful for your videos
I don't know if it's just the way it looks on video but I saw two big deep corrosion lines on the far right heat exchange tube that look like if you rub them they'd fall out.
I have the same fieldpiece gauges. How did you get the screen on your app on the phone to come up like that. Mine is a square with all the info in it. I Appreciate a response if you can. Are you in Nepean ?
Brazing with nitro is best but u can't braze compressor connections with nitro no exit for nitro to flow it will pressurize pipe and blow silfos in ur face I dont recommend silfos in the face pretty sure it will it hurt
I love the 1.5 inch static drain haha guess they didn't read the 3 in min
No one recommended a triple evacuation. Interesting.
Nitrogen is a life saver(and creator).
What app do you use to get the diagnostics reports? Great vids keep up the good work!
Watching these videos while I'm entering my courses for HVAC-R really help me out when it comes to applying what I learned. When I first started watching I would be like "what is this man talking about", lingo wise etc. Now when I study on my terms and understand how the unit should operate I apply that to thse videos and it's amazing how the information retains itself in my brain. Thanks a bunch and keep making these videos!!!
I’ve seen many times when you lose a condenser motor the high head pressure clogs the metering device. Always check the motor bearings to help prevent this.
just got on the service side two months ago. I was an installer for about four years. love your channel. Also you talk fast enough to where it’s not boring and slow enough to where I can understand everything you’re describing. Thanks for the great content, it’ll help for future calls
A thousand thank you to you man i've got same problem but brand that i got is rheem A\c split
Suction is low 30psi and discharge is 270 psi
So then i removed the fixed orifice to chekck it and i found ot that the filter inside is already rusted.
I changed the fixed orificed and guess what man?
Its running perfectly pressure and temperature is perfect,subcooling and superheat is perfect
Thanks a lot that you shared your knowledge.
Sorry with my english but all thanks to you😂👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You are very welcome. Always great to watch the videos. AWESOME job as always. I have worked on Carrier alot and you are correct in summer its the metering device or in winter heat exchanger or gas valve. I will be away starting tomorrow for a little while going in for surgery in early am. Be good kid. HVACR ON AMERICA!!! Service area Ottawa??
Have you ever seen a funky freeze pattern on an evap coil and it's NOT an obstructed metering device?
Man. Your videos are GREAT. I watch all of them. I left a hospital with all Trane equipment to work for a University that has all Carrier equipment. I start Wednesday.
Getting a great head start, because of you. Thanks a lot.
Nice diagnosis. To bad the customer will run the new compressor in that condition. Very easily could ruin it, and then they will be looking for warrantee on it. Thanks for the excellent video's.
Good vid. Throw in a Txv & be done with it.
Just had 2 of these units side by side do this same thing Are you in Ottawa ?
They should use more chillers they do the same thing in Phoenix not in Florida
Looks like a bunch of hacks installed this by looking at the flex gas line and the condensate drain. Are you in Orleans ?
One question I have is With R22 becoming illegal and unavailable starting in January, Won't the customer's only choice be to replace the whole unit? I would think that all R22 systems once they go low on gas should be labeled as unfit for repair due to the gas becoming illegal in January. I have been wondering about this because I see the HVAC techs that I watch on here still fixing R22 systems that need gas and seemingly not telling the customers that they have to replace the unit because the gas becomes unavailable starting in January?
chris thanks for the help has always
The customers are allways take the lowest cost option. It dosen't matter what it is. I do repairs of measuring equipment for opticans. Sometimes they have equipment that is about 15 years old. But they buy the repairkit, even if they can get a more accurate system. It is the same thing, rapair costs a quarter of the new unit.
Is there a residential HVAC channel you recommend?
👍🏼 Your video skills are just fine. Tnx for sharing your great videos and commentary.
I had the same issue on a multi stage Lennox rtu. The txv was frosted on stage one. Service area Kanata??
@Chris … Who is the customer at such chain restaurant sites: the landlord or the tenant?
Hey man…!! I always watching your channel… I'm also a a/c technician in UAE.. your video is very informative..👍
I have been in the field less than a year and work for a local company in town and have changed a lot of TXV’s that get clogged on units the company has installed that are less than 3 years old. My first thought is that the installers are not brazing with nitrogen. And sure enough they are not and not even pulling a vacuum properly and they don’t even install filter driers.
Here in Kansas RTU usually are replaced every 10 years, It is also a very competitive market, not including that lot of franchise business purchase their units threw their national account. I usually make better money doing service than replacement
people don't care and just smash junk in near warranty end and don't care or hope it will flat fail and be replaced. Service area Barrhaven??
Bet that unit would smoke like a freight train if it ever has to start the second stage heat with all that grease stuck on it.
i shared your channel on FB page group i hope you'll get more subscribers. you are really awesome man!
How cool I asked you a question in a email about this same problem I have and you came out with a video!! Thanks Chris!!!
"Big picture diagnosis" – great quote! I'm gonna steal that!
Nice detailed video Chris! Thanks for your insight.
Please keep making videos I’ve learned allot thank you 😊 and God bless