This was a service call on multiple kitchen ac's not working I actually found that both unit's had refrigerant leaks on the first stage circuit. I was able to repair one of them but I got both units up and running.
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This video is brought to you by spore'ln quality, integrity and tradition. So, to give some context on this video, we actually have two packaged units that are down at the same time. Okay, so there's gon na be two different repairs on this one, and I also want to say too, I understand for the people that are gon na comment on the first package unit. I ended up topping off the charge, even though the unit has a leak.
Okay, I realize that you know it's still leaking refrigerant for the people that are gon na ask that is completely legal in the United States. For us to do that. Okay, the refrigerant charge is under the threshold of being able to top off the charge on this unit. Yes, you know, there's a you know.
Some can say that you know you still shouldn't fix it whatever, but bottom line customer needs this unit running it's a hundred and ten degrees. They need their kitchen cooled off. We got to do it. We got to do ok, the customer's gon na call someone else.
If I don't top off the charge, so I topped off the charge and you guys will see everything else inside the video. Ok, we have a service call. This is a York predator. I believe this is a 10-ton unit.
You can look at the Noah, looks like a seven and a half ton kitchen AC, that's not working right, walking up the condenser is in really bad shape. It's not that it's dirty! It's just it's beatdown! It is a little dirty too, though, and then surf and motors are both running. I don't feel a lot of heat coming out of there. I would expect there to be a lot more heat than what I feel it's really hot outside.
If I had to guess it's about a hundred degrees, I'll give a thermometer here in a minute inside here, we've got an active code. Now we're going to count them one. Two three: four: five: it's double check, one two, three: four: five: okay and then, if we go down here and we look at the five flashes, it says: low pressure, switch compressor, one locked out so we're off on low pressure on compressor one and we've only got One contactor pulled in this compressor is running. This compressor is not so.
We've got to go ahead and get a set of service gauges and check the unit out. I did open this up right here and verify that the indoor blower motor is running so we're good. There - and I don't like a quick check - I don't see any obvious signs of oil or anything anywhere, so we'll get some gauges on this guy and jump into it got my stuff got my gauges, I'm about to put it on. I just wanted to point something out: they have a filter, changing company that come here and these asshats putting these stupid filter whatever right.
That's the the company that chooses that filter crap it's junk by the way, because it sucks completely up and against the evaporator and the condensation can drip off of it. But that's not even my feet. My beef is, is not they take the filter, doors off and throw them away or stuffed storm around the roof in different places. There's no need to do that. You can still close the filter doors. Would you even with your stupid filters in here? Just like? I don't like I can't handle when people are just playing idiots and lazy and that's just a lazy idiot. I'm sorry, but you are a lazy idiot if you take the freaking filter doors off and throw them away good, gosh man, that's the stuff that pisses me off. You know not that that filter door is gon na.
Do like the most amazing thing, but it does help for me to be able to open this up when the unit's working properly and gauge up to the compressors, but with those filter, doors missing, I'm pulling in a hundred degree air. You know it's just stupidity. Put some service gauges on you and we're damn near completely flat 18 psi on both sides, so we're gon na get a little bit of 4/10. This is a 410 unit and some nitrogen and we're gon na bump the pressures up in this system and hopefully be able to find this leak.
I'm right off the top of my head, I'm gon na guess that's in the condenser, but you know we'll see all right. So I've got some 410 yeah, I'm worried because I don't have enough. If I can find the leak I'll have to go, get refrigerant. There's there's probably only ten pounds in there, but you won't get that all out with this 100 degree, ambient temp.
So all right, we're purged and we're gon na go ahead and put tracer gas in the high side, the other side. Normally, you wouldn't put it into the left side, but I'm not gon na be running this just putting about a hundred psi in there each side and then we'll just jam it full of nitrogen all right. So I'm gon na go and take off the 410 and then we're gon na fill it up with nitrogen, and I have a 500 pound regular, but we got to look at the standing pressure test. It should tell you on this unit, so I found it right here.
It says low side test pressure is to 36, but that says minimum that doesn't say max all right. We're going to start with about 230 psi and I'm going to start hitting everything with the leap detector, seeing what I can find I'll pull the side panels off the condenser get into the evaporator go from there. So I got the leak detector that detects select. I sprayed some for 10a, just open it just a little bit a minute ago and I let it dissipate and we're still picking it out the vapor.
So we know the leak detectors working so now we're going to go to the system and try to see what we this door and then pulled these panels off right here and getting right down in here and actually seeing. It looks like oil back in here. Our leak might be right back in here. Oh yeah, please detectors, gone crazy and I want to stare at it too much so I'll, just get so bubbles all over it and then figure out which one's the heart stage, one side spraying them slower, they're, not bubbling.
So this thing has multiple leaks back in here, so right in the middle of the screen right there in the back is one of them, and then I don't know if I want to be able to show the other ones, but there's other micro clusters down on The very bottom right in the middle of the screen at the very bottom there's another one. They all seem to be on the first stage. It looks like there's some micro clusters back there, so yeah they they got a mess here. These aren't really repairable per se. There's another right back there in the back, so there's multiple multiple leaks on this first stage. Evaporator at this point, there's not really much. I can do I'm not gon na try to braise on those Plus this evaporator in there they made everything tight. It's ridiculous.
In all honesty, their best bet is going to be to change this AC, but I mean, of course, I'm going to quote it and give them the options to do what they want. But looking at this coil, the first and second stage is one piece. So they're getting a whole new leave a / 2 coil and I'm not going to do it without changing that first stage condense or that's all beat up, and then liquid dryers expansion valves, distributors, yeah, I mean we can make it work if they want to. But you know we we put that in the customers hands and let them make those decisions.
So so I got to get these guys. Cooling in no way is this. Am I gon na pull a deep vacuum or anything? Okay, I'm gon na go ahead and shut. It off I'm because I'm just gon na pull air into the system.
All I'm trying to do is get the air out for the most part. That's why I just use my little navikev a turi pump. I didn't bother bringing up an extension cord and my big boy, one. I just needed something.
I just needed to get the air out of the system for a little bit longer and then I'll just go ahead and top it off or put six pounds of gas in it. If I hopefully I have enough for now and we can get them some fully. So it only took four pounds of the charge I'm hoping I still have some left in that tank we're gon na. I just turn the disconnect on we're gon na get the unit running and then we'll charge it in on the low side, because I just want to get them some cooling.
Hopefully this will last because obviously they're gon na have to make some big decisions and either way, even if we change the evaporator and change the condenser. Those are gon na be weeks out, so we got a you know, get them something so on these York predator units, it's in an anti short cycle delay right now, and you can tell by the way that it's flashing, if you just go down to this chart Right here it tells you everything, so it says if there's two flashes, the control is waiting, anti short-cycle delay. It says the green LED will be flashing. All of them will be off, except for red, LED number two, and then, if we go up in here - and we look the one that says: free cooling underneath that that's red LED number two and then the green ones, flashing with two short flashes. That means we're in an anti short cycle delay, so we're just gon na wait that out mutters awfully loud, apparently talking on the side. We've got to be very careful doing this, but I'm literally almost going to make it I'm about five pounds, three ounces, but the problem is, is that my tank pressure is equal to or less than my suction side pressure. So what I did open up the evaporative section so that when we stop pulling air through the return, air and we're pulling outside air and what it's actually doing, it's dropping the suction pressure and letting the tank pressure overcome it. You got to be very careful doing this because you could flood the compressor with liquid refrigerant too, so you got to make sure you watch and what you're doing I'm just trying to pull every little ounce out of this guy.
I'm looking for six pounds and we might just barely make it so well. It's definitely gon na be under charged. I'm gon na have someone bring you some 410 here in a minute we're getting out another unit. They want me to look at to so.
I'm gon na jump on that, while I'm waiting, so this unit is 11 ounces. Shy, so I'll talk that off with the 11 ounces in a minute and all honestly I could probably get by without it. But since I got another guy, I have another guy. That was finishing up a maintenance at a store about 20 minutes from me, and you just follow me to check out.
So I just have them pick up some 4/10 for me and bring it out to me. So if I look right over here, they have another kitchen a/c and this one's down too, and it's actually doing, I think the same thing it's going here and look double check it one more time. One for five. I believe that's the same Erika five flashes low pressure, compressor same thing, so we'll go ahead and gage up and check this one out too.
This one is also a seven and a half time, and what kind of luck is that this one's flat too? So, honestly, I might have enough pressure in that tank to do my tracer gas and then put nitro on top of this one and do a leak check on this one too. So that's what we're gon na do. I got about 60 psi out of the tank and equalized on both sides, and so now I'm just jamming it full of nitrogen, no audible leaks. As of yet, I can't hear anything leaking yet so we'll get it charged up to about 230 psi and then go from.
There walked over to the condenser section, and I could hear it there's a big one in here somewhere. So I'm gon na pull this panel off. Let's see if we can't figure out where this is that, so it's right in here the wires from the condenser fan motor shorted out against the discharge line. So I'm gon na be able to fix that and put a new dryer on it all right, I'm going in your blind.
I can't really see what I'm doing here. Don't cause more problems. We're gon na go heavy on the solder here and I'm melted. All the wire kind of camera moves and I kind of melted everything, but I got it I'll hit it with the mirror and make sure it looks. Good looks like a tuck, nice and good, and it's a good went all the way around, but I melted the wires back here so we'll have to rerun those guess where this is gon na stink, ow, all right, micron gauge hooked up. True blue hoses vacuum pump. Open the gas ballast turn it on so we're pulling down. I close the gas ballast because we hit below 2000 microns, I'm actually having really quick.
So let me show you guys something so there's still probably refrigerant and nitrogen in the oil of the compressor and here's. How you can tell I'm going to shake the compressor and you see the microns climb up, because we're agitating the air and nitrogen and non-condensibles out of the oil so they're trapped in the oil and they're slowly boiling off? If you could imagine the oil, what you would see is just like a bubble bubble bubble, so it takes forever. So if you can heat up the oil or if you can agitate it, you can speed up the process creatively tied up using my zip tie trick. It's in the liquid line in here same thing use some rubber material to tied for this point, so it doesn't rub out, tie the wires here creatively tied the wires right.
There fix the electrical short we're good, so we need this thing to vacuum. All the way down, I really don't want to put that panel back on quite yet, because I want to make sure we're good. I am currently charging it up right now. On the high side, I've got just under 1, pound micro engages rise and as soon as that hits positive pressure, we'll take that off.
No sir, I don't want to put too much in there because I still want to do a leak check on the system. Let's stop it at that right. There, okay cool! So we just hit high pressure on the micron gauge of button. Take it off now and then now, I'm gon na do a leak check, real, quick, all right.
It is running now. So the pressures don't look too bad, got a good saturation tempo neva liquid saturation temper and agrees outside running good. These compressors just run loud, I'm gon na be honest with you. I'm not gon na spend any more time on this unit.
I'm dying up here. I've been up here for about four hours. Now, it's 110. I need to get my ass off this roof, so just go check a TD on this guy and take this service fittings off and get off this roof.
Okay, so we had multiple kitchen, a C's down at the same time. Ironically, it was both the same compressors that were both completely out of what just about completely out of refrigerant. Okay, the first one obviously had multiple leaks on the evaporator coil and the condenser was trashed. I didn't show it on video, but I did leak check the condenser coil to.
I actually didn't find any leaks surprisingly, but I did find them on the evaporator coil. I'm gon na submit quotes to the customer and see where they want to go with that one. Okay, the second AC. We got to see that we had a electrical line from the condenser fan motor that shorted out arced and blew a hole in the liquid line for the first stage. So I was able to actually repair that one too went ahead and secured the the wire so that with nothing like that would happen again. Obviously changed the liquid dryer got the unit back up and running okay. It was actually so hot up there that we had problems with my camera, shutting off in the heat, so I didn't get to show the rest of the. There was some video footage that was missing, basically the rest of the evacuation and everything, but I can assure you guys, you know, I know I'm gon na get the people asking.
I did pull through the proper vacuum on that system. Okay, but yeah its system was operating everything's good customer was happy. I did mention at the end of the video that, like I just needed to get off that roof so yeah I would have loved to get in there with my probes check the superheat subcooling. All that good stuff, but I honestly wasn't in the mood for it - I was ridiculously hot and in all honesty, working on that roof.
For some reason it hit me really hard. That day I was sick for like two days I mean I still worked, but it just it really drained me being on that roof. For that long with the heat and stuff it just killed me so anyways, I'm fine and everything was good. It just took a couple days where I was feeling kind of funny trying to take it easy, but you know everything was good.
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That's it guys so we'll catch you guys on the next one. Okay.
Are those NAVAC vacuum pump's worth it??
Do you believe in easy seal?
I have always disliked leaks on the evap and condenser coils as they always seem to be in the worse spots for me!
I saw a lot coming out of that pipe a the botom in 3 seconds, every 3 to 4 seconds I give them a week maybe 2 but yeah it is what they asked and payed make it work, we know its broken,but we need to work until the new one arrives and you are the only one that can fix it safely
Very interesting work your doing there with the diagnosis of what's going on with that unit , all I can say is when I worked in that industry my job was to build those heat exchangers , braze , tig weld and fab the aluminum portion of the coil braze the copper line sets , fab up prototype versions for testing new ideas for future products but what you have to deal with out there in the field instead of a model shop environment looks very tuff , great job , thanks .
Leak sealer works wonders if you just want to make it work until they change the header or the evap coil Are you in Orleans ?
Is r 32 used in America yet?
Chris,” what happens when you let the village idiot be in charge of the village”?
The answer is:: you get a village full of idiots!!, Service area Barrhaven??
I call that a double whammy!!! Service area Nepean??
How long will that charge last on the 1st unit that leaks? Are you in Ottawa ?
I remembered a time where I just slept inside this large AHU before 😂 ppl thought I died inside because I was really wrapped in a blanket.
By the way, bring a small plug in electric fan, a cooler and a small tent with ya, it works wonders to beat the heat
Thanks for giving me a informative explanation of these things HVAC VIDEOS 🙂
Those slackers that throw out the filter doors!!! That would frustrate me too. Service area Kanata??
DEI sells automotive heat shielding you can cut, wrap around wires and such and use little spring clamps to hold. 1000 deg plus
I bet if they all get new condensers then I guess they won’t need service calls for a long time I think these box units should be good for like 25 years
The filter issue would piss me off too.
Chris it sounds like you had sunstroke from been on that roof for over 4 hours
you should have put something protective for the wires their mate …..you are risking to make a short circuit
Which electronic leak detector do you use? And do you like it? I'm in the market for a new one.
Please respond 😊 all other inputs are welcome.
Edit lol I saw d tek select after I posted question. But do u have the other d tek? The new one with a led screen is that worth it? Service area Ottawa??
I like your videos are very good and comments , good luck I am from Brazil Mechanical engineer here now I am live im Portugal, but this area is very good to work
Do you sand around the leak first,or you dontneed to?Thanks I enjoy your videos,learning alot.
Hello.. are all units the same or there some old that are like 20 yrs old
If it’s York expect to drag the bottle and gauges with ya from a former cce dealer employee and current tech 9/10 will need at least 1 lb after a Canadian winter 😁 Are you in Nepean ?
You changed tips from a 3 to a zero?
Condemn it and let them know about the money they are set to spend otherwise.
You don’t think testing off of the can won’t leave residual oils that causes false positives? Do you change your filter??
LOL let one of these idiots from minnesota or some state that has a yearly high of 90 degrees for one day to tell us how to do shit in the southwest where 100 degrees is grabbing for a jacket. I love the florida yokels that jump in about "humidity." I lived in Florida, it's hot and sticky but it rarely, if ever, hits 100. And when it's hot out here, we have massive humidity like right now because the monsoon is here. So try 115+ WITH 60%+ RH and get back to me. 90% @ 90 doesn't touch it. Sorry, not sorry.
For those who disagree with him topping off a leaky unit… Topping the charge even though it has a leak is safer than not having the unit functioning because having no air conditioner in the kitchen is an employee health issue (can cause heat stroke if overheated due to no a/c)
Haven't you got a heat mat?
Hey, i wanna ask
doesn't yellow.line purging 410A disbalances the refrigerant?
Get yourself a small heat mat. Plumbers have them. I have one that I wrap round crucial equipment/cables when I’m soldering close by. Saves melting the wires etc.
Its called heat stroke !
how do you know at what point you need to replace, instead of repair? experience?
I've had years of dealing with the heat, a wet rag or towel on the back of your neck works.
I enjoy you videos and the quality of work performed l don’t understand people trying to second guess you about your out comes ie did you draw down the correct microns? Hey don’t be so judgemental that gentleman do his thing. Thanks
Nitrogen in the compressor oil? can you explain that one please.
What is tracer gas used for?
That 2 days illness: HEATSTROKE. This can be a very serious condition with long-term implications. When in those temperatures, you need, at a minimum, to keep hydrating.
Did you replace the unit?
Don’t hold back! Tell us how you really feel!😅
I think this was great. You repaired what you could, got the items working, the business gets a quote on replacing the bad items, and now they can decide what to do. If the units no longer worked, then the business shuts down as they can't operate the kitchen at those temps, people are out of jobs and income, the business likely can't replace the equipment fast enough to undo that damage, so they might even go under.
You know part of me imagines some environmentalists ranting and raving about leaving leaking equipment in service and maybe even trying to get politicians to pass some stupid laws to tighten up existing leakage laws (someone bellows mentions 30% annual leakage is the limit at this time .. so push it down to 10% for example). Of course it's always possible the business will keep doing service calls to refill the leaking unit (over and over to differing companies over time) if they aren't at that 30% annual level. Lets say they are over that limit. They might find someone willing to try some welding repairs on the unit that would reduce the leak to within limits and not repair it (oh I bet that angers the environmentalists how DARE you repair it to just within the law). But it's all about balance .. jobs, people, money, environment all have to work together for the best solution. And honestly you put the best solution forth on this job at this point in time. Well done.
good to know York is just as scummy as Ford
gotta make your job much much muuuch more difficult for you
Its not legal in Canada to top off refrigerant charge if clients dont want to pay to find and repair leaks we are supposed to recover whats left and leave
@HVACR VIDEOS Be careful with that blowtorch! Your gonna catch the place on fire! Burnt the wires to a crisp and burned that thing you put on!
In the case when you come across a system that has inaccessible leaks. Do you use leak sealants?