The customer was panicking because the exhaust fans all turned off along with all the lights in the kitchen and the office....
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00:00 SPONSOR CARD
00:20 IT'S SO QUIET...
00:55 WHY IS THERE GREASE IN THERE?
03:29 WHY DID THE LIGHTS TURN ON??
05:25 TOLD YOU I'D FIND IT
09:15 REMOVING THE KEY TRICK
10:37 IT'S ALIVE
13:15 MOTOR STARTER REPLACEMENT

This video is brought to you by sportlin quality, integrity and tradition. Today we have a call on an exhaust hood that just went down and they said when it went down. It took out all the lights for the back of the kitchen too. It is eerily quiet up here um.

This is my one where i guess that this this is the main hood. This is the secondary hood and that's the make-up bear unit. So i don't know where our problem is. First and foremost, what i'm going to do is shut every one of these off make up our unit off we'll shut off this hood and that hood.

I have a feeling that we blew a main breaker of some sort, because they're saying that uh they lost power to like the lighting in the building and stuff. So i'll open these guys up and then we'll start by checking. These yeah looks like grease, has made its way into there. So, let's start by checking power all right.

This is their main hood. The main hood um power coming in is dead. There's no power there um also look right up there. I pulled that wire away.

That doesn't look good. I can't tell it actually broke the jacket or not. I want to see, but it definitely didn't look good up there. You can see that white mark um come down here to the mag starter and it's in a tripped position.

So that's a thing i'll have to trace out what wires are what, but there is no power coming into the disconnect switch, so we need to go downstairs and find where the main is, because that it looks to be tripped. This is their second exhaust fan and uh. This is an interesting one. So look at that mag starters covered in rust, almost like water's been dripping on.

It looks like there's something: it's there's no water in the bottom, but you can see calcium where it looks like it has gotten wet before. But if you come up here, this guy actually has power. This one has 215 one to two to three one to three. So this has three phase power: um, let's test to see if the fuses are blown on it, no blown good.

So the fuses are good. Sorry about that, the sun wasn't it for a sec. The fuses are good, but if we come down here, this motor starters tripped too. So that's interesting.

I wonder what the dysfunction with that is. Huh all right, i'm gon na go look at the other uh makeup air unit. That's not running share! You guys the trouble, but this one has no power too. So let's come on down here, um power's off, so we should safely.

Maybe it's not tripped. I can't remember if the yellow means tripped, i thought it did mean tripped regardless we don't have coil voltage. Hmm, that's interesting so come back here to their breaker panels and we have a tripped breaker right here. Okay.

But what concerns me is it's labeled ansel, that's the fire suppression system. We've got everything turned off: that's weird, because that turned on the lights and turned on contactors and stuff. So that's really bizarre. But what caused that to trip? Is the question? Don't quite know what they're doing here but uh.
Let's see that restored power to the fan. 213, one to two two to three: 213.: okay: now, let's we're not going to turn this on yet this one still had power, but this one didn't so, let's check this one check to see if we restored power on this one too yo power one to two: Two to three one, two: three, so that restored power. Now the question is where's my problem, this motor doesn't look good. It's like there's a lot of bearing dust and stuff on the top of it.

Um we're gon na test that it's interesting, so we're gon na test for shorts to ground and stuff, see what we can find. So everything spins there's no play in the shaft. It doesn't feel like there's anything bound up in it this one over here spins, but remember this one had power the whole time. So i don't think this is the problem nothing's bound up in there.

I shook them um. I haven't seen this one. So, let's test this one, real, quick, this one right here moves fine, too nice and good, so nothing's bound up in that one uh. We need to test for shorts to ground on this one.

I think our problem is with this motor on the main exhaust fan, because when i grab it, there's some play in that bearing - and that might explain all this bearing dust that i see all over this thing too. So i predict yeah. The bearings are toast in that guy and i predict that's what caused the breaker to trip, but why it didn't trip the motor starter because it doesn't seem like the motor starters actually tripped. Um, let's see if i can energize this guy and see what happens.

Watch yourself see what happens: nothing interesting, the heck, that's interesting, let's go and turn it back on and see: okay, nothing there. Let's check some voltages, real quick, so the hood switch was actually off so now this guy's pulled in and it's just waiting to be uh. You couldn't hear, but it pulled in when i turned on that switch. So now we need to see if we can carefully get this guy up yeah.

Did you guys hear that noise motor's got bad bearings more than likely? That was the cause. So with that being said, let's come over here to these guys turn these guys on and see if these guys run okay go ahead and close this that one now runs fine felt's a little loose, but we can deal with that this one felt's a little loose, But it runs fine too, so i'm thinking that this one overloaded, especially once the belt's on it, because those bearings are bad. So i'm going to do some research right now try to find a motor and then we'll go from there. So when sourcing a new motor, what you need to pay attention to is the motor information.

So this is a marathon motor. I don't really care about the name. We're going to get a universal replacement, so horsepower is something you take into consideration. Rpms voltage.

The frame is very important: okay, we can make other frame motors work, but it changes things. Obviously it changes the mounting bracket and it changes the shaft size. So this is a 145 t frame. So typically, that's a 7 8 inch shaft, the bigger guy.
So this should not be a hard motor to find it looks like a two horsepower: 17. 45 rpms. It's really 208 3 phase, 145 t frame. We should be good to go all right.

I got a new motor two horsepower. All the specs match up significantly smaller, which is interesting. Um new pulley belts got some grease because we'll lube up the bearings yeah so we're going to get going on this really shouldn't be hard um. I am going to come back and replace the motor starter um, but i'm not going to do it right now because they didn't have it.

So i went ahead and ordered it. We'll use that one for now and then probably replace the conduit too. All right went ahead and disconnected the conduit, but check this out. This conduit is all cracked and brittle it's all old, just beat down but um, even though i'm in control of the disconnect switch it's right there i have it shut off.

I still put wire nuts on these guys whenever i'm working on stuff. Even if i have a breaker locked out, i still put wire nuts on it just for giggles. It's just for safety, really um, always like what i always tell my techs. You always treat it like someone's going to turn it on.

You know, even if you have it locked up, always treat it like someone's going to turn it on um. So we're going to get this guy swapped out just straight up, bolt pattern, no big deal and then we'll put a new pulley on there and call it a day. The new motor didn't come with a new key, so all you do is get the set screw off and then take a pair of dikes nope and you got ta watch out for that i'll have to sand it up. But usually, if you just use leverage yeah, you can get it out.

All you do is just take some sandpaper and uh run it on sandpaper, with your finger, it'll, clean right up and then we'll be able to reuse that key for the new motor okay got. The new motor installed got it tightened down where it needs to be. Now i wanted to point something out: you have your adjustment key right here. If you ever need to make an adjustment, but whenever you do make adjustments and you open or close, you may have to move the entire pulley depending on how you have it lined up.

Now this one, i have lined up really well um. The other thing is down here. There's the set screw right here right, it's one of these um, that's going to the key okay, this particular motor, pulley or sheave, has got a second set screw. I take that out because all that that's going to do is scar the shaft - it's not needed in my opinion, so we only put the one that's on the actual key, the other one i just take out and get rid of it, because it's just going to Create headaches later, when you try to change this pulley again so now i brought up the.

I only have a little bit of conduit. I don't know if it's enough or not if it is i'll, replace it if not we'll reuse the existing stuff and i'll replace it. When i come back to change the motor starter, all right, i turned it on. We are back up and running.
Everything is good. We're allowed to run 5.9 amps we're running right at 4.76. 4.75. That's using the field piece, sc 480 meter um.

I match the pulley to the other pulley, so we should be good as far as uh airflow the amount of movement and it is going in the right direction. So uh i'm gon na grease up the bearings real quick if they even have grease ports and then uh, like i said, we're still gon na come back and change that motor starter. Let's see yeah, we got grease zerks right there, so i'm gon na grease those up real, quick. All right.

We are back up and running. I put the lids on everything now i wanted to talk about this, so what i think happened was the motor starter failed. Okay, we had bad bearings on the motor it it had an over current situation. They probably locked up.

The motor starter should have tripped, but it didn't the breaker tripped instead, i believe - and this happens a lot on these older systems. I believe that the breaker, for this also feeds the makeup air seems a little unconventional, but it's pretty common on these older stores. Then, on top of that, i believe that this power is the 115 volt leg coming from this setup. Right here goes to the hood lights and all the hood equipment, and also well.

No, it should just go to the should just go to the hood switch, which turns on all these motor starters and then more than likely turns on a contactor that turns on all their cooking appliances, because they had all their cooking appliances had been shut off too. It's for fire safety reasons. Okay, now. What is a little bit concerning to me is that when i reset this breaker the lights in the back of the kitchen turned on that to me indicates that someone has tied into the circuit with lights that are not under the hood.

These are just in the back of the building and in their office, so someone tied in with a lighting circuit into this, so i'm going to encourage them to get an electrician to look into this. In the meantime, i will be coming back with a motor starter because that motor starter should have tripped and it didn't um. I thought it was tripped because of the yellow indicator, but i guess i was incorrect on that it wasn't tripped, so they are back up and running. I gave them the all clear to start cooking um.

I went ahead and greased the bearings and then also replaced the conduit, the conduit. I made sure it was long enough. I hinged the fan all new wiring in the conduit, we're good to go on that. I have a big mess up here.

I need to clean up of wire, i put new belts and i have a new spare too in here so i'll drop that new spare inside the exhaust fan and uh yeah. That's it and then we'll come back and change that motor start. Alright, we're back on this exhaust fan today we're going to build a motor starter right now we're going to replace this one uh. This one should have tripped and it tripped the breaker instead for some reason, so we're going to put a motor starter in there.
So it tripped a 15 amp breaker versus tripping, a motor starter, which i don't know what those overloads are rated for heaters, but our new one, we'll put it in there it'll fit right in there. The only downside to the new one is the push button isn't going to work, but that's fine. It doesn't make a difference. Someone will just have to open the panel to reset it.

I've already verified. There's no power in here we're going to get this guy swapped out it shouldn't take long. These things are intimidating. These used to scare the heck out of me because they're so big, they used to buzz and scare me and all that really there's not a whole lot going on with them not too difficult.

Just kind of looking everything over so you've got your coil voltage right here, hot and you're, neutral 115 volts and then, as far i was looking to make sure i didn't get confused. But it goes black red blue on the bottom and then line one matches up to line. One line two goes to line two so that that shouldn't be too hard at all all right. We are installed wired back in.

I got ta put another screw in here, which i'm gon na do in just a second. We have power at the top of this guy right here, um interesting every once in a while, i'm hearing a bearing noise. I think those bearings might be dry grease. Those bearings on that one.

I didn't grease those bearings the other day, um uh. I knew i didn't grease them because i actually have techs here doing the preventative maintenance today, so i was planning on them doing all that um. This guy right here is the motor starter: okay, uh, it's a 120 volt contactor with an overload assembly attached to it. So we do not have three phase power coming in yet, but we do have coil voltage.

The motor starter is pulled in. I just turned it off: turned it on okay, so the way that this works is it has a circuit right here, 95 and 96. It's a normally closed contact, but if the over current happens, if it goes into an over current situation, it opens that circuit and breaks the neutral to the 120 volt contactor. So the 120 volt hot leg comes in on a1 and is powered all the time and the neutral gets broken right here.

Okay, so right now by hitting stop, i just broke that normally closed circuit. So that's all that it does. You set the over current based on what the manufacturer wants you to set uh. Typically, if i can't get a hold of the manufacturer, i set it for 10 percent over the um.

The motors recommended current, basically um, so uh yeah. This guy's ready to go. We're ready to turn it back on um our over current's already set, and all is well so we're gon na put this guy back in here close this panel, like that there we go we're back up and running. We have a motor starter installed here, we're good to go.
.

44 thoughts on “Please help all our exhaust hoods are down”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ed says:

    Seems like a lot of stuff on a 15 amp breaker. And the lighting shouldn't be on with the fans no way. Service area Barrhaven??

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Joseph Tramutola says:

    Your light circuit should be separate from your motor circuit it didn’t make sense when you flipped the breaker on that your light came on.

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Joseph Mettes says:

    Nice video Chris! Always interested to learn more about exhaust systems!

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jakob Langhans says:

    You didn’t trip the overload or blow the fuses because the wire shorted on the housing of the disconnect. You can see in the video that what you thought was a rub mark was actually a short. The bad motor likely caused the vibrations that caused the wire to rub out. Are you in Kanata ?

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Sovspot says:

    You should be using fixed pulleys when replacing variable pitched pulleys.

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars MultiBrommer says:

    i spotted that the motorstarter has an 30 amp breaker. so it is not that odd that a 15 amp breaker tripped.

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Refrigeration Confidential says:

    15 Amp breaker for a make up air and ex fan as well as the back room lighting that's a lot for a 15 amp interested on how much its actually pulling. If you get to that 75% 11-12 amps and you are for sure going to weaken that breaker.

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Robert MacDonald says:

    Your whole problem started with that single wire rubbing against the inside of the cabinet & shorting to ground. Biggest hint, main breaker tripped. Are you in Nepean ?

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Johnny says:

    Good troubleshooting.
    I have had pretty good success with Marathon motors, as well as Dayton. They have actually outperformed Baldor in some installations.
    As for the reset actuator on the starter door no longer working. I never use those anyway. If they trip, I want to open it up and run some tests first.

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars SOURADEEP BISWAS says:

    The conclusion part where Chris explain the recap is missing in this video….

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Lukas Leibrecht says:

    If the motor sounds like a compressor, it's time to retire it.😆😆😆

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Lukas Leibrecht says:

    Splish splash that mag starter's been taking a bath! ⚡🛀🧽🧼🚿⚡😆😆😆 Are you in Orleans ?

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Just Me says:

    Schneider says you should put the motor amps on the starter as they have already factored in a 10% contingency

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars l wilton says:

    It would have been interesting to see the running current on that triple 15A breaker downstairs. I'd bet it is running around 13A or 14A continuous, and an extra amp or two from the bad bearings was enough to cause it to trip after a couple of hours. Standard breakers are only designed to run 80% of full load amps continuously. You know that you have two 6.5A motors on it, plus various room lights, and maybe other things too.

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Art Houston says:

    Overload setting is given in NEC article 430.32. For most of the motors we use in HVAC, the setting is 125% of FLA. For other motors, it is 115% of FLA. It is NOT just FLA. The wording suggests that it is legal to set the current to a value that does not exceed those percentages, but in practice, those are the values that are used. Motor manufacturers are a part of the Article committee that forms these rules.

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars UrokLizard says:

    I know that you prefer having a "closing words" section of your videos but I end up tuning out when that section starts playing. it was refreshing not seeing a "closing words" this time.

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars pedro jardim says:

    Thanks. Chris. I. Like does. Motor starters. Good. Staff

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars TheColinputer says:

    Did you happen to look at the black wire that was rubbing on the top of the disconnect box? It looked to me like it arced through to the box. Given thats on the supply side and so before the motor started would explain why the breaker tripped not the starter

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ernoskij says:

    @HVACR VIDEOS I think the white stuff on the black wire is glue.
    If you look down the length of the wires in the video you can see multiple glue sites where they have fixed the wires to the side of the cabinet.
    I guess the black around it is just the black from the wire having "melted off" by the metal getting hot in the sun Service area Orleans??

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars grant kenney says:

    possible the breaker tripped due to the motor being in such a bad state that when it heats up, due to all that's wrong with it, it shorts to earth but once its cooled the earth short disappears. this would case the breaker trip without the overload on the contractor tripping.

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Frank says:

    Why do you call it motor starter?
    We call it a contactor and a motor protection relay here. (Don't know the exact English term)
    They are sold separately.
    A starter limits the start up current.
    The relay trips when overloaded.

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Maurice Upton says:

    Hi from hot and humid New Zealand 🇳🇿 Service area Kanata??

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars New Jersey Bill says:

    I'm always amazed at how small the European DIN components are compared to the older US NEMA components of the same rating. Where I worked years ago, we had World War II surplus motor controllers. Never had to do anything with them, other than normal PM,s. In the new construction barge it was all the European DIN equipment. I was always having to change components out due to either electrical failures or mechanical failures from vibration from generator and pump engines.

  24. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Eassyheat/ Cooling says:

    Lighting and MCC should always be separate.
    Thanks again for the videos!
    🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🎯🏌🏻‍♀️
    Stay safe.
    Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!

  25. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Slugbunny says:

    Always nice to find an easy skidmark like that as a clue, still did the full big picture! 👍🏻

  26. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Troy Belding says:

    Even if it has no voltage, the wire nuts keep you from being jabbed by the wires as you move around. The thicker solid wires, especially, can be SHARP.

  27. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Peter Ganzlin says:

    The first thing I thought when you started was an ansul system with a shunt trip breaker that tripped somehow

  28. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars ehsnils says:

    To me it looks like that site should have a visit from an electrician to look at the loads on the breakers and possibly update the electrical system.
    When you have too much load on a breaker then it will trip instead of the motor breaker. A motor breaker is usually slower to react than an ordinary breaker in order to handle start currents.

  29. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Max Hughes says:

    it sayes hood right next to the braker on the door

  30. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars The Clown Boi says:

    So are the motors all ac too? The reason I ask is I saw 250, which is usually 250VDC. I don't see a drive though (which controls a DC motor is still 3 phase powered)

  31. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars John Walker says:

    Good job Chris, getting better with your electrical skills.

  32. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars burningdust says:

    Guessing that 15A breaker was running a little hot, wonder what the phases clamped at? If that were the case, putting just a little extra load onto that motor shaft would be enough to trip it, the cable rubbing out on the enclosure was pretty suspect too. IMHO lots of suspects in the big picture on this one. Can’t really go wrong with swapping out the contactor but I don’t think it was really ‘bad’ per se; more likely a case of not enough ampacity in the feeder cct for it to work as designed.

  33. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars tallguy central says:

    Good on recommending an electrician. I can't believe they have a triple 15 running both units, the lights, and whatever else is daisy chained along with it. Not too well versed in 3 phase power but that seems mildly undersized

  34. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars sterk says:

    Are you sure it's legal to have the neutral going through your motor starter overload? Fusing neutrals was outlawed over 100 years ago in most places, and this looks just like that.

  35. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars nilborne1 says:

    Replacing motor starter is a good practice whenever replacing a motor.
    Like a new contactor with compressor. Good vid as always.

  36. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mark Cleveland says:

    If you want to protect yourself and your fellow workers from the possibility that someone may come along and turn the motor on, then you should twist all the wires together and wire nut them.
    In this way, any attempt to turn the motor on will result in immediate breaker trip due to short.

  37. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars S g says:

    Not sure what the code is in this particular area but in some areas it’s normal to attach fire control/protection circuits to some lights in obvious areas so you know if it trips and they do something about it. Service area Ottawa??

  38. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars m9 ovich says:

    The RED wire looks to be rubbing the top of the Box as well…

  39. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Elijah Talbot says:

    Nice video

  40. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars DashCamAndy says:

    All of the theories outlined make reasonable sense.
    But my brain still keeps coming back to the 15A three-phase breaker, running the fire suppression (assumed), a hood, and interior lighting – and there's humming either from a transformer or a failing fluorescent fixture's ballast? Seems a bit much running on one circuit, even if the L1 wire didn't show signs of arcing in the box and the motor bearing was perfectly fine…
    I don't know much about fire/electrical codes, especially since they often vary from state-to-state and county-to-county, but I would ASSUME most localities would want the fire suppression system on its own dedicated breaker. If I were an HVAC installer, I'd insist the hood fans have their own dedicated breakers too. The back-of-the-house lighting should NOT be on either of these circuits, obviously. Are you in Barrhaven ?

  41. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Electrician TS79 says:

    Next time I would check the OLs with the chart to correspond with the new motor FLA. No need to replace the entire starter. Given a supply house stocks the GE heaters. Otherwise its easier to change the entire starter rather than track down the correct heaters. GE heaters can be hard to find however. Not very common starters…

  42. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ty Huffman says:

    That exhaust fan that had the squeaking belt, THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT! The belt squeaked for about 1 second on startup and that's perfect. That means the belt doesn't squeak while running and the belt tension is loose enough to be light on the bearings. Belts are cheap, bearings are expensive.

  43. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Stephen Hunter says:

    To me it looks like the main breaker tripped because the L1 conductor rubbed through, caused by the bad bearings in the motor shaking the entire fan assembly. I hope the L1 leg got replaced at leased in the box also!

  44. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars m tucker says:

    You seem to have gotten a new camera! Awesome clarity!

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