This was a late night walk in freezer call that started a bit frustrating but in the end it all worked out.
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This video is brought to you by Sportlin. Quality, integrity and tradition. I've got a call. It's uh, late in the evening and what the heck is going on here? I'm gonna call it a walk-in freezer.
not working, but you hear that sound and the temperature controller I Don't know if you guys will be able to see it, but it's like glitching. That's odd. Yeah, something's going on with that temp control. Okay, well.
let's jump up onto the roof first and see if we see anything going on up there. That's weird. It's like glitching. All right.
This is my compressor. Condenser looks clean I can see through it. It's warm, but it doesn't feel like it's off on overload. It just feels like it's hot from the day.
Let's open up the electrical section over here and have a look at what's going on in there. All right? So if we go from N to four, that should be full power to the evaporator coil which should be powering my temperature controller which should be turning on. So the fact that I'm not seeing the power at Foreign N on this defrost clock flickering or doing anything funny like we were seeing at the temperature controller makes me think that we might have a bad temp control. So we're going to need to head downstairs.
I'm not going to turn off power yet. we're going to head downstairs and we're going to open up that temp control and see what's going on within the actual control. Oh, that's not good. Look at that as I'm taking this thing's gonna blow up in my face as I'm taking it out.
Water is dripping out of it I Know this restaurant is notorious for having roof leaks I bet you anything we just had a tropical storm go through and they got hammered with rain out here. if that's you anything. The whole top of this box was full of water. Okay, oh no, it's not too bad.
Yeah, but there's definitely water in there you can see all right. So power that looks like crap. Um, power is the top two on the right there. and if we have 208 volts proper which I think we do, it's a bad control.
208 volts. We don't have a display a proper display on the control 26 206. so hopefully I got a control in my van I think I do so I don't have the exact control but I have a control. but look at the FlyAway wires.
the wires that are just pushed up. That's not okay. Luckily it didn't cause a problem. but yeah, you got to make sure your wires are really getting terminated properly.
So I installed the ke2 because I didn't have uh, another one. Now this one has built-in defrost but we're not going to use it so we're just going to hold this down. I'm gonna go in here. We're gonna set it for negative 10.
I Had to set it up for 208 volts so we're just using it as a digital control. Basically if I go negative five because I don't think they need negative 10 necessarily I don't know. They do have ice cream in here actually. Yeah, I'm gonna go to negative 10.
I wonder if I did something wrong because it didn't turn the coil on? Hold on. Let's keep going through this. We're gonna change the defrost time to zero defrost per day I'm Gonna Change it to zero compressor starts per hour. It's just that off differential. We're going to change it to three and that's it. So I must have done something wrong because should have turned on by now. Should have opened the solenoid. Let me look into this.
Wow, what a mess! Okay so I got in here I don't think I had anything miswired. So let's let this guy turn on. see what it does? Is that 47 right now? So let's give it a few minutes, hear it click on and see if it turns the solenoid valve on. I must have had something messed up because now it turned on.
So I just ended up yanking everything apart and then double checking on my wiring. So I must add something crossed or something. All right. Well, I got to put this all back together and then hopefully we'll watch this guy come down to 10.
all the evaporative fan motors came on so we know that the defrost termination switch is working, so that's good now. I need to get the solenoid cover back on I'm gonna have to turn off power to do that because I got to shove a bunch of crap in there guys. I think it's in a time delay right now because it was running a minute ago, but I had to shut it off. There we go.
So I had put a time delay on here the last time I changed this compressor because I was sick of the short cycling. Um, so it's running now. we're gonna let it run. but I noticed that this defrost timer had the wrong time and it's really hard to turn.
So I'm actually going to swap it out real quick. I've got a new one right here so we're gonna do that and then we'll put it all back in operation. so if it doesn't blow up. Nope, didn't blow up all right.
Oh man, now we got stuck in the time delay. Okay, so we are set. It is currently 908 p.m about right there. These guys are kind of silly.
So we are gonna set a few defrosts here because they really really ice this box up often. So I'm gonna put a little. We're gonna start with four defrosts for a half an hour and then I'll add in a couple more in the middle of the night. All right I set it up.
So I got four. Defrost One One seven, Seven ish somewhere in there. Eight ish, whatever. And then I put a a half hour at four, A.m and then a couple 15 minutes throughout the day.
So now I'm gonna pop over here. We're gonna watch the system operate all right. It is currently 96 degrees outside. We have a clear sight glass.
We've got a nice big Sporland C all there. This is one. I don't know if you guys remember, but I did a compressor change out on it. Was a pain in the butt.
But all right. Um, we are looking pretty darn good. I can actually turn this off. it'll make it a little more visible.
So 404a 115 saturation. That's not too bad. um 28 degree I'm sorry 28 PSI Negative 4 on the EVAP I'm not really seeing any issues. I'm going to take my gauges off, leave this running, put the grate on, and head downstairs and see if the box is coming down in 10. All right, and we are running. It's about 21 degrees inside. The Box evaporative fan motors are moving, air coil looks clear. I'm not going to stand around and watch this I Got an hour and a half two hour drive home so this is all they're getting for today.
Um I'll call and follow up with them tomorrow. uh on the phone. This one was a bit frustrating and let me preface this: I don't like asking management about details right? Uh, and what I mean by details? It'll make sense. Like when this manager called me, he called me on the phone and uh or actually I called him when the service call came in.
We got an email through their invoicing program and it said hey, emergency service call walk-in freezer not working so I called them and I said hey, what's going on walking freezers down he goes yeah he goes I already checked the breakers, the fans aren't running and I go okay, that sounds like an emergency man, it was probably I don't know nine o'clock at night or something like that. So I was like all right, well I'll drive out there you know and actually I think it was like seven o'clock at night when he called me, but it took me two hours to get out there. So I got out there like at nine but when I was on the phone with him though before I got off the phone, you know he said yeah, it's not working I said okay I'll head out there no problem and he goes yeah he goes I noticed it this morning at 9 30 in the morning. he goes but you know the fans weren't running I figured I'd just shut the door and see what happened and he goes.
Now it's you know, seven o'clock at night and I'm like dude, why did you tell me that he's like, what do you mean and I go Why did you tell me that you noticed it at 9 30 and then now you need me to drive all the way out there, you know to fix it I Said it's better if you just leave that part out, just tell me it's broken I don't need to know when it broke Okay I don't ask those questions anymore. He's like I'm so sorry and I'm like that's fine But I said now we're on overtime I said You: You: You're concerned about money. You know you're trying to save money, so you want to shut the door and see what happens. but then you forget about it and you call me late at night when now it's overtime and they have to pay me a lot of money to drive out there and to drive all the way home because we charge travel time on overtime home.
So it's like you know, it took me two hours to drive out there I was on site for three or something like that and then they paid me two hours to drive home. you know? So anyways, regardless, I got there, found that the unit had a bad temperature controller, went through the steps, and then while I was again because it's about the big picture, right? I don't just stop there, put my gauges on it, check it out, see it come down significantly in temp. Also found that the Defrost clock wasn't really turning very well. Went ahead and changed that too and they're fine. Everything's back in operation now. I Didn't stay and watch it come down to Temp because it had been down since like 9, 30 in the morning it was like like 40 something 50 degrees in the Box it was going to take forever to come down to 10. you know. So I just watched it come down significantly to in the 20s and then that was it.
Got out of there. Um, it's been I don't know five days since I was on that call or something. So all is well. everything was working.
Um, now you know as far as me taking a shortcut and saying hey, I'm not going to watch this entire Box come down to Temp If I wasn't in charge then I would want to call my boss and say hey, it seems to be working great. What would you like us to do you know I never leave that up to management I don't put that in their hands I Just you know I make those decisions and so it was no big deal for me. I Felt confident looking at the vital signs of the system. We had a Clear Sight glass didn't see any issues.
compressor condenser was clean like everything was cool. the ice pattern, the frosting of the TXV everything looked fine. Okay so I just don't want you guys to think that like I just half-assed everything. No I'm looking at Vital Signs I'm using my experience I'm listening to things, looking at the operation and making judgment calls based on what I'm seeing.
Okay, um, we don't always get easy ones like this, but sometimes the easy ones like this can be frustrating because it can be in the middle of the night I bite my tongue I did tell the manager like, hey man, don't tell me that kind of stuff you know, like just keep that to yourself. just let me do this. you know I did say that um but other than that I didn't give him attitude I didn't have a problem when I was out there I wasn't a jerk to anybody. It is what it is.
It's broken regardless and you know it needs to be fixed. So that's what I'm there to do I really appreciate you making it to the end of the video. Thank you so very much for watching. If you haven't already, please consider checking out my website Hvacrvideos.com We have hats, beanies, sweaters, merchandise, all that good stuff available on the website.
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Mounting it directly under a roof seam didn’t help….
You made it sound like a shame you had to use a KE2… thats a reliability upgrade. Those ranco controllers always do weird stuff. Haven't had a KE2 Temp + Defrost fail me in 10 years.
stupid question but can defrost be timed with delivery Are you in Barrhaven ?
Same thing with the weekend calls. "I noticed it acting up the other day…". Service area Nepean??
you should definitly make a video game out of this😂
As far as temperature controls go, try out the Penn A421ABD. This is my fav temp control, especially for walkin coolers, since it comes factory default set to 3 defrosts per day of 30 minutes each for off cycle defrost which works well for most applications. The setup is very simple, you can set cut in, cut out, sensor failure mode (I always turn this off I don't want the coil to turn into a 2 hours thaw out job), and a short cycle delay, I usually set this for 1 minute or rarely 5 minutes. This gives the condensing unit a chance to pump down if there's a power failure in the building, before the solenoid opens. If the coil was flooded when a power loss occurs, it will struggle for awhile, especially if the power was out long enough for the compressor to cool down. Better to start up with the system pumped down, less chance of floodback that way. For a freezer with a time clock, you can use the regular A421, don't need the built in off cycle defrost. But if you only want to keep one control on your truck or two, they make a 120/208/240 volt version (the ABD) and a 24 volt one as well. Don't see too many walkin systems with 24v controls though. If there is a timeclock you can set the number of defrost periods per day to 0 as well. The options are 0, then 2-24 hours.
I also had a late night walkin freezer call 2 nights ago, was a lot like this one, but at least they called me within a few hours, not waiting all day. Almost exact same thing, except I arrived on site, and the condensing unit was running fine, noticed a little more frost buildup than usual. Checked sight glass quick, it was clear. Go inside and the box was 41-42 degrees, last defrost was 2 hours ago, and the fans weren't running, and heavy frost buildup on the backside of the coil. Turns out was an easy fix, the fan delay thermostat was swollen and busted, and only passing about maybe 7-10 volts to the evap fan motors. I just cut the wires off the fan delay, and took it out of the circuit. I've done this before, and most of the time if they keep the door closed good, it doesn't even bother anything. Those stupid fan delay things are not very reliable, especially on a 25 year old Bohn coil. The wiring compartment was very sketchy, lots of wire nuts and extra wires, and there was no defrost termination thermostat anywhere to be found. Anyway, I put the unit into defrost to make sure the solenoid and fans were off, checked amp draw on all 4 heaters, 1 pan 3 coil, all were reading 1.95 amps. Let the heaters run for about 10 minutes that was enough to clear all the frost, since without the fans running, the only frost was right where the heater elements are in the back of the coil, so that melted off fast. I was planning to go back and check on it today, but got an afternoon walkin cooler down so wasn't able to make it out there. If I see too much frost building up on the ceiling what I might do instead is just put a 1 minute delay on make timer on the evaporator fans. But I've noticed after a defrost the coil seems to be pretty dry, and the system works better if it's not running for a long time without the fans running, the condensing unit has no accumulator, so the risk of floodback is there. It's small but not impossible. I think a fixed time delay for the fans is a better solution, the mounting location for some of these fan delay thermostats is not ideal, and especially if the box is warm, it takes forever to get the fans to kick on, and that delays getting the box cold, and wastes energy etc.
Seems weird to add such a sophisticated control. Did you remove the defrost clock?
because those defrost timers are always dying due to dust, why no put them in a plastic enclosure to protect them? Would reduce a lot of nuisance calls.
You’d think they would make a better sealed defrost clock. Especially for use in desert areas
I absolutely love your overtime rates/policies and have since adjusted mine to the same. Customers were getting me out on weekends and late night for way to cheap. If I’m having to leave during what family time I actually get being in this business they’re gonna pay and it’s been great. Thanks again for all the info you provide.
Good job Chris.
If you already put the KE2 in why not delete the time clock?
I've no issue with you leaving the job the way you did – not waiting around for it to chill down. You know the site and the system and you have the knowledge and experience to back it up. There's still a chance it could still go wrong but you made every check you could and did everything to minimize that.
Well done friend! Service area Orleans??
Great customer service….never make the customer feel stupid
2 hours out, 3 on site, 2 hours back. Sounds about like what I did all the time. Except for me, it felt like half the time, the service call was inconclusive. Which was endlessly frustrating to me as the technician, even if I'm paid either way.
i just saw a video of yours on this unit yesterday, and in that video the temp controller has visible condensation on the inside of it as well. i guess it was a fault waiting to happen Service area Kanata??
Hey, it broke down Thursday morning so I shut the door so I can call you in the middle of your dinner Saturday night.
I'm a vendor for convenience stores and some restaurants. i deliver dairy products (temp sensitive product.) its so frustrating trying to get the stores to just do some temp checks. I even tell them when the fans are starting to ice up and get them serviced. never happens until temp is out if range. oh well lol.
More lightning ghosts?
Awesome video
Answer me this? If this is a late night call, why is the sun still out when you first went upstairs? In the video it is dark outside though. Are you in Ottawa ?
I was unable to buy any t-shirts, because you didn’t have any in my size. So when do you think you’ll be getting some more t-shirts in stock? Please keep us posted. Thanks!
Yeah dont tell me when it broke or how you tried to fix it your self.
Excellent fix 👍
Great Video. I appreciate what you do for the HVACR community.
Per you X post, no, it doesn't bother me. I attempt to use it as a learning experience but knowing that these guys are constantly changing, it probably does get old.
“And the sight glass is clear!” 🫡
Such a Pro.
5 pm on a Friday is favorite time for a manager to call and tell you, its been warm all week………… Frustrating especially when you have been in that service area same week.
You're not supposed to turn the outer dial like that. I have seen more than one clock ruined by turning outer dial. Turn the hands to set the time.
The wire strands are known as george michaels…..
I hate those electronic temp controls. I'm old school and prefer the simple mechanical thermostats.
It sounds like the manager was hoping it wasn't actually broken, or if it was, that it would somehow fix itself. Maybe he actually forgot about it for awhile.
In any case he's not acting responsibly with the money he's paid to manage, or the systems he's paid to monitor and take care of.
This is also why you don't offer them any discounts for your time. Are you in Orleans ?
Good. Stuff Chris
A while ago I had to call a resi HVAC guy to come fix the unit at my house since he just installed it several months before. I got home at maybe 6pm and see that it’s still wonky. So I call the main number on the company sticker. He picks up and when I mention I’d first noticed something funky a while ago, he gives me all this attitude about why didn’t I call then, during work hours. I say it’s not an emergency and didn’t realize the number I had called was going to be answered after hours. It was NOT labeled as an emergency number. I fully expected to just leave a message on their company answering machine, not to ring the guy’s actual cell phone. It’s hard to remember to call about this stuff while I’m busy at my own job.
Damn Chris!! What the hell are your fuel costs per year??? Has to be more than I've spent in like ten years!!!
Those calls always piss me off, its OT but still drives me nuts. "It has been acting up all week" and calls on a sat or sun night.