All right, we're live. I guess am I the one talking about us being live. That's good I can do that. Um, so yeah, we're here.

live at Ahr 2024. uh in sunny and cold Claremont Florida and Jim I Imagine where uh Jim is is probably a little, uh, even colder. Yes, it is quite cooler. It's like in the 30s here.

so uh, and we have no sunlight as you can tell from by my pale white skin compared to you. So it's uh, it, you know Ohio sucks this time of year I was actually I Always love coming down to Clar Mount and actually seeing that bright ball of orange in the sky that we just don't happen to enjoy here in Ohio all that often. Yeah, so start forgetting about it. Yeah, yeah, so this is just going to be an open, um, kind of.

Q&A we'll talk about, um, just you know what's going on with Measurequick. It's sort of an update and then uh, anybody who's in the chat, um, feel free to kind of add questions. uh, or anybody here that's in the audience as well. So um, so just kind of speak up or raise your hand.

uh, obviously you can see behind us I can't Um, so I'll let you run that it's a huge crowd. Um so yeah, you guys had kind of written down some questions. so what what do we got to start with? Joe Yeah so um, since I've been on on the team I've been struggling to understand that some many people were like yeah, Magic Wick Magic Wick We Love Magic Wick Awesome and yet we really don't have a lot of people actually using it or even worst case, paying for it. So I'm like.

So one of my questions was anybody out there wants to chime in is to like You know what? Why are we struggling with what's really market adoption or why it is that we have these amazing tools and even you just used it for free then you would get something out of it. but we're I don't really feel as that we have as many users as people think we do and uh that people say that they are like oh yeah I'm an naid us Itor I'm like, well actually based on our stats, you're probably not so I just trying to reach out for people to give us some feedback as the well. Here's here's one of my obstacles. and maybe it's tools.

Maybe you can't afford the tools, maybe your company not supporting you, or maybe it's you. Think that it's there's something else in the app that's not there or should be there. Whatever it is. I'm just looking for like what is it that's holding you back from making Measure Quick a tool that you should be using every day? That's the question.

Yeah, because I'll I'll add to that a little bit because I I do a lot of work in looking at our data, looking at our usage data. Um, and there are tens of thousands of people that have signed up for accounts. Uh, But then when you actually look at the ones that you know continue to to use it on a continuous basis, it's still a very small sliver. but the ones that are using it on a continuous basis that like their entire company they are, they're using it for everything.

Yeah, and they have completely transformed their business because of it. But there's that massive Gap right now. between the kind of like the people that they are interested in it, they try it and then there's just something that stops them from getting to the next level. Yeah, well.

I think it's important to differentiate too When we talk about it is is there's tons and tons of technicians that use Measurequick as a diagnostic tool on a daily basis. That I don't know that we we see like they we. We don't see every like, We don't collect every interaction with our customers with Measure Quick what we're talking about Specifically our people. When we say incorporating Measure Quii it's fully leveraging Measure Quii um to uh.

in and all the cloudside services that we that we have. So CRM integration, Remote data streaming. uh, the advanced reporting features. It's it's things like that.

So I think um, we have tens of thousands of people that use it on a daily basis, but they're invisible to us outside of I think they're only using a part of what it is that we've offered them so that's also theet. So question is that what are those main features and how do we uh, you know, expand that to to others who aren't even using some of those basic features? and I Think the one thing that uh, people don't understand is that like $5 and like 90 plus percent if not more of measure Qui is free You! It's free to connect all of your uh your your probes, your tools and get Diagnostics and do everything. The only thing that we're going to say if you want to save it or you want to get a report out of it, that's really the only place where we actually have a wall. other than that, everything you can ever get out of Jim's head and most of your measurements.

The only app that's giv you you know real targets and uh, ranges out of what it is you're measuring. do measure quick. so there's just so many great things that we're doing and people are hopefully just taking advantage of it. And you're right.

I can't track that if there's no way to for them to you know, pay for the savings of it or the report. So we do feel a lot of people use it and I just think there's so many other features that that we can get out of it that are similar to other apps that are just giving you basic readings. Brian What do you think? Uh, well, um I I Actually have never talked about this publicly. I I think um, you know so I have a little bit of a background in doing some app development.

um I had a failed startup that almost nobody knows about. Uh, that actually was started kind of kicked off HVAC School. Um, and a lot of times and Jim has talked about this a lot. Um, this idea of sometimes we build things um for a problem that people actually aren't ready for you to solve for them.

you know, versus kind of asking them what the problem we're solving and then solve that problem. Um, and and and we all all businesses can fall into that into that space. Um, so it's not a criticism. Um I think a lot of technicians are, uh, completely overwhelmed with tools and um, Innovation and uh, just so many different things and they're already having things jammed down their throats.

As far as and and that's not, it isn't a bad thing. so I just always want to say when I say even things like jammed down their throats, it's like I'm not. it's not I'm not using it as a perjorative. but you know, with with Uh softwares like service Titan for example, Um, you know Tex 10 years ago we're used to doing paper invoices.

um Tech 10 years ago we're used to using analog gauges. Um, and now we have this upcoming Uh generation of technicians who are more open to app-based Um tools and connected devices. But there's still a novelty associated with it that I think um Mass adoption is is still challenging. I mean a really good example of this is only recently has Kaos really began to to start implementing uh measure quii the way we've always talked about doing and of course we've been talking about it for gosh since the very beginning I mean I was actually Jim we were just talking about that Mastermind that we all did together where a lot of these ideas and this community got started.

and I think that was probably seven eight years ago I don't know something like that. Um, probably seven years ago. more um, was it more than that? and and so this like this is a really long ramp. um and it's a big problem that we're solving.

So I think um I think you know one of the ways that we when I say should I think one of the most productive ways to think about consumer behavior of any sort is um, just recognizing that um, people are going to use things in the way that they want to use it and we can learn a lot from that and rather than resisting it uh I think uh I think we can and I think you are learning from it. Um, but there is always this user adoption frustration or a monetization frustration that comes on. It's like, hey, you're using it in this way, but that's the wrong way. You know like you're you're not doing what we want you to do with it.

Um, and I and I Get it. Like the argument has been made about data integrity. A lot of different things like that and it makes sense. Uh, to some degree.

But I Think all of this. It's just like the way that Jim you trans you've transformed. how a lot of people think about vacuum. didn't happen overnight, and now there's this really large group of of people who understand about vacuum now.

Um, and they do adopt and they do utilize that, but it was an easier sell, right? Like it was quicker. guess and it's and there's a, uh, quite a few Market forces that end up impacting that. and so it's hard to predict. like the timeline in which the uh, that kind of growth or transition is going to happen.

Because like let's say, with vacuums, it wasn't just the education that Jim provided. there was new technology that came out, there was probably manufacturers were changing certain things at the same time and so that that balance of all those forces like we're in. We're in a state now in the market though. where I Think really, what Jim's been promoting is is commissioning.

and like there there is no There has been no incentives for for commissioning right? It exists in in commercial because of the risks that are involved right? Um but uh like there's a possibility now with how things are going that because systems are becoming so much more complex Is that now finally the market forces are going to it could create that um kind of Tipping Point Could oh no it is it is. it's it's just again slow ad option um I us see some communities that are requiring code adoption is I need to see what what you installed and how what were your results were. you know that's a A New Concept for some areas and some better than others like I can I can it's here it's I'm sure it's fine versus saying I need to see your do documentation on what your you know your your static pressure and you know the the actual Diagnostics that could be. You don't need measure for it but you just need to be doing diagnostic.

So um I do see some other communities that are realizing that you know have entire communities Builders are realizing this too. We have an entire group of homes that are now suing us because they're uncomfortable and uh we need to figure out that we should be commission before we find out they're being just cler. They're not suing us, they're not suing measure quick, they're suing the were saying they're suing us. That's right, whenever you say suing I Just all all the hair on all of my my all over my body stands up on end.

Yeah and you have people that are getting you have technicians that are working with those kind of solutions. Yeah yeah yeah and down here in the US is so strange. like I'm from Canada and we don't have this same sort of culture of like everybody's gonna Sue each other just for breathing. it's it's very very strange.

I think we're Gemini are debating about a lawsuit of you criticizing America right now. yeah you can't touch me I'm Canadian come on right. Yeah, it's the maple syrup I think that just it. it causes all of the blood to be thicker and not so thin skinned.

all Jim you're quiet. what do you got? well you know I was just thinking I mean back back when I started. another quick back when I started the software I knew this was going to be a long play. I mean it's it's um we're talking about industry transformation which is which is a hard thing to do and it it you know.

but I think we're we're headed in the right direction. The interesting thing is is that when you look at you know the the companies that are fully adopted and embrace measure quick and I think there's two things we're talking about. Obviously there's adopting at a technician level and adopting at A at a company level and I think we. We've done a really good job with technicians because I was a technician we designed the product initially for technicians.

Technicians had a lot of the same challenges that I had when it came to evaluating system performance and figuring out what the target should be. So it was really a technician tool and when we initially started we we marketed to technicians not really realizing that technicians were never going to be the people that were going to. they were going to pay for our lunch right it was going to be and we didn't want to charge technicians. or at least you know that that was not on my radar to charge technicians for the application because we saw the benefit for the for the company.

So it was a little bit challenging early on because we we just were marketing to the wrong to the wrong people. and realistically, you know when it comes to who's going to get the most value out of measurequick it. It comes down to service managers. it's actually you know there.

They're the ones that are really, uh, need to know better what's going on in the field, Need to understand better what's happening? Um, at the uh, uh, You know how the equipment is running, how the new installations are doing, how their service technicians are responding to service calls, Um, what opportunities are there? Are we fully realizing all the opportunities on every call or we having the right conversation with the customer? And I think you know that's where it impacts the bottom line we've we've watched I Think it's interesting because our best measurequick customers if you look at every single one of them goes back to a strong service manager and somebody at the office that that all of a sudden we're providing a a ton of valuable field data that enabled them to increase their technician productivity and um and make money with it. and it's uh you know and that's where we see the the people that are doing the 40 to 60% increase in Revenue Overall and there're also companies that have implemented tools like service Titan or house call Pro or another CRM where they can measure their technician productivity. You know it's it's very hard to implement a a software to like, look at it just arbitrarily and say yeah, we're going to do this without understanding how it's going to impact your bottom line and you know one of the things we saw early on with like companies like with Rayo cook and also with Simpson salute was they found out that you know at first they were coming back saying I thought this was going to save us time. Measure Quick's really hard and then after they we had some conversations with them they like oh Measurequick is not hard at all.

It's commissioning equipment that takes time and commissioning equipment is hard and we haven't been properly commissioning equipment and the savings you know I mean the measure quit cost is nothing when you look at $5 per system compared to the net savings that they achieved when they started properly commissioning equipment, when they when they found out you know that the new installations they were doing were subpar and they could make improvements to the duck system, there's a additional billable opportunity that they were forgoing because they weren't looking at the the system performance. they were just installing the equipment, flipping on the switch, maybe checking the subcooling and walking away and missing a lot of the you know, the performance performance problems that they would have found that would result in callbacks or result in um you know social Med I mean my gosh, just putting out a getting one bad review on on social media and the amount of effort we take to to extinguish that um is so much more costly than it is just to do the job right or the call backs not considering all the cost that cost operated company and so it's it's on in some respects you know it's it's um um our slow adoption has been has been our own learning. I mean we just had to learn how our our customers work but it's also getting to the right people and you know the best thing technicians can do for us is to is to talk to us about the service manager have the service manager reach out to us because at a company level that's the person that's going to have the ear of the owner and also have the real problems of trying to best leverage the Um the company best leverage their assets of the company, that the technical glass. it's all the people I mean that's what we want to do at the end of the day.

And and like with HVAC school and even with Measurequick, there's been a huge amount of effort in educating the technicians basically uh, elevating the Excellence of the technical work. But one of the biggest barriers for Um, some of the the things that aren't getting done in the industry right now are because of the lack of maturity on the business side. Right where like most owners are technicians that don't have business experience they they would like you know have uh they don't understand all those pieces, they don't know how to um value callbacks? they don't know how like to I guess increase inish. There's so many things that they don't know because they're still so kind of like involved in a lot of the Um technical execution and they haven't had the chance to basically be step back, take an analysis and then use data to be able to be like oh wow like if I actually now look at these numbers I'm bleeding out like the the stat of uh that in Brian feny session how it's like you know $2500 is what it costs for a call back for for some companies who have actually calculated it.

Yeah I think that those those owners also were like I figured it out I was successful with this I was able to be a great technician. why can't you without giving them a standard a process and training and bringing them along versus saying you know I got your truck and I got you your tools. Why can't you do what I was able to do when I was in your shoes? So I think that they just assumed that everybody can go figure this out without again. Whatever kind of process isn't even just with h what they're doing in terms of their tools and at the house, it's it's systemwide when I go to so many places to do training I can feel instantly the aura that's on there and whether people really love being at this place and they want to stay here at other places that I could just see that they're like God I'm whatever I can do to get out of here is my goal.

So I can see that they really are promoting or just holding people in place and uh, and if you're being held in place I'm telling there's other places that you can find that will love you and love what you provide riding. So again, if your company's not really, we follow this same process. this is our standard and we want to help you get to that standard and show you how to get there. Then I Feel that there's success is really a challenge.

Culture, culture comes from the top. So question for Brian is like the where's the HVAC school for the business owners that need to get to that level of maturity um to to be able to understand that like you know just how much that uh you know their profits and their efficiency is being all eaten up by the fact that they they just they don't see it. They don't have that visibility because you're we you're doing it for for technicians? Is that that? there's like this, this massive you know, years of of uh, investment into creating uh, this community and all these resources for technicians to be better. but they now all have a massive barrier to be able to get to the next level.

which is the the fact that the the ecosystem, the business like everything starts from the top and so now they they're at a cap for what they can do, how effective they can be. How's that problem going to get solved? Well So I had a long conversation with somebody about this at Ahr I don't remember who it was um but the oh I know where it was it was. we were actually I was on an education panel I I got roped into an education panel at the last minute getting roped into it. That makes it sound bad I was I had the opportunity and joy to be on that I was invited and that was great.

um but it was a different group than I normally interact with and so kind of very high Lev conversations and the thing that I think we have to make sure we're not doing is pretending like everyone is the same that they should be right? So as an example: um I am I enjoy solving problems I'm a technician at heart I'm a teacher at heart I like teaching things um I hate working a process that somebody else gives me if you make give me a job where I have to work somebody else's process every day I'm not going to do it and that's a lot of technicians. like a lot of your existing technician stock are not processed workers. um they don't want to be if you look around Kaos you talk to bird or our Refrigeration taxt or these other guys. um we're this really weird.

highly Diversified business business and so we have a place they can go right If they if they don't like residential, they don't like talking about money. they don't like interacting with clients and having to deal with customer service. All they have another place they can escape to Commercial Refrigeration or controls or whatever. Uh, and that's a that's a luxury that we have.

whereas you see more and more where people talk about the residential technician as though it's one type of person, or the or the or the business owner as though it's one type of person you specifically asked the question about. well, where are the places where people can go to learn how to be business owners, right? Well, there are a hundred times more of those than there are HVAC schools. The problem is is that they produce a very and I I don't want to call it a problem. It's not necessarily a problem.

It's not my, it's not my ball of wax. Um, it produces the type of person who cares about a couple things. Um, and one of those main things is money and scale and 10x and blah and bro, and yeah, yeah, and focus and H killing it, right? and that there's nothing I I have a lot of friends who are that way. Um, and that is.

There's nothing wrong with that. Intrinsically okay money is very clarifying. It helps. It's like hey, I want money.

So I do these things to get money. It's it's it's it's It's much easier. It's when you're complicated which I think many of us are right and I certainly am way too complicated. Um, that it gets.

it gets tricky because I Um, there's like this gradient like for example. um I give you a really common one I like brazing. Um I like it I don't want to stop doing it. It doesn't matter if they're like yeah, but but these these press fittings are like they're really good now and they're like I'm like yeah, that's fine I still don't want to do it and I'm going to make excuses of why I get to keep brazing because I like it when I work on my own house and nobody's watching I still use analog gauges I have one hung up in my because I like it.

it's what I came up on it's we tried to mute you there I know you did I saw you reaching for the button now I don't do it because I know it's not the best way I know it's not I love measure quii I love it for those reasons, but sometimes we're fighting. Um, we're fighting a battle of craftsmanship and out of one side of our mouth we say craftsmanship is so important. the other side of our mouth we say we want people who aren't Craftsman to do craftsmanship we want, We want process followers to do it. And I'm not saying I have the answer to this problem I'm just stating that like really good installers, really good commissioning techs, really good salespeople really good service technicians who are good diagnosticians, good service managers good business owners, good bookkeepers.

These are all different people. What motivates them is different. What they get excited by as different and what they need to do day in and day out to keep them engaged is different I think we've identified a couple things and Jim I think you've done a really good job on this of identifying like commissioning is a thing right? and it's a thing that is highly underserved and every company would be well served to do that. That's what we're embracing at Kaos right now.

Next, you probably have like, uh, the sales cycle and the design cycle. That's that's a piece that needs disruption and is and is ripe for it because it brings market value. Then you have like maintenance right and and actually doing maintenance in a productive and efficient way that you can make money doing and also is a value to the client rather than just checking a list of boxes where you actually do nothing and everybody kind of knows it right, which is sort of the joke of the industry. There's all these things like this that there are massive gaps that I think can be served whereas Measurequick was originally built as a diagnostic tool for Anarchist technicians who want to do whatever the hell they want and uh, and that's that's because that's who they are, right? I'm that guy I Don't want anybody to tell me what to do I hate it I want to be able to use my tools however I want and I like to experiment And if somebody hands me this, here's the process.

Follow the Bible of HVAC I'm going to be like screw that I want to figure out something you know, confusing and and you know you get what I'm saying like it's know, It's knowing these people and often this community we've built. We've built a community of of crazy anarchists, right? and that's I'm exaggerating. obviously I'm being perjorative, but it's like you know, like these people don't like being forced to process, but there are people who do and they're going to be the probably the majority of the workforce. Uh, and that's not a bad thing.

And both sides I think we need to sort of embrace and recognize. Yeah, but you're yeah. not having for uh, something that is a highly skilled should be done many of times the exact same way I Understand, people don't want to do that, but the Auto industry had a problem with that. People were like no, I'm I'm losing my skill, my personality I know how to treat this car and now they hook it up to computer and says do this in this order and you'll probably be very successful with that.

It took him almost 20 years to accept that that's what a mechanic is and uh, there so many people in this industry, they're like they are not ready to have something. give them guidance um in the way that they want but to argue. Okay, okay I this is a good conversation. so sorry Jim for once you're we're doing the talking and you're not talking I'm very.

This is very confusing to me I don't know what to do but this is what's funny is that you Joe medos. You are one of the most um, bespoke human beings I've ever met in my life, right? You are one of the least process following people. um meaning somebody else creates a process for you. It's one thing to create your own process right? But where somebody says Hey Joe do this, this, this and this and so the what I'm saying is is that it's not that those people don't exist I agree with you like the the majority of the Auto industry had to go this direction, but this place isn't full of those people and that's I Think part of the problem is that the the folks who Measure Quick talk to was what Measurequick was originally built as.

y right? I don't I don't think that's hardly even can be disputed like Measure Quick was. but we had did all these podcasts. it's a it's a tool for technicians, technicians. It's a yeah, it's it's yeah, it's Anarchy it's yeah.

hey we're doing this thing you know Stick it to the Man and then at some point everybody realized okay, well the man's kind of important like you know, or it's that joke. it's that commercial where it's like he's like this is my little way of sticking it to the Man and he's clearly the CEO in this classroom and he's like but sir, aren't you the man and he's like maybe it's like at some point you realize that like okay part of it is we do have to to transform something you have to to accept that there's going to be this different group of people. Doesn't make them less, but they're going to have customer service skills. They're going to be okay working a process, going home, hanging out with their family at the park, flying a kite, going bowling.

you know like that that group of people are amazing but they're not us and but also like I Loved what you're saying. like painting the picture of like what it is to be human is to be human is to exist in a bit of a paradox how you have to have that balance it. there's a constant dance of being like okay I'm going to standardize I'm going to like process this part of my life but then I need to be messy elsewhere and if you don't let it out it'll just kind of like get out somehow in either. Like let's say the work that you're doing like a lot of because I so I have a lot of uh my family members are artists um and uh they are their Outlet of like the amount of um I guess just like completion and a satisfaction that they get in doing their art like they choose to not pursue a lot of you know money because they're so passion about what they do.

So it it is their craft and that is very much the same of a like. What you explained a lot of technicians to be human is to have that thing that you can do which is to hook up the analog gauges because it it it feels good and so I think that maybe it's like maybe exploring the that dance and being a little bit more conscious of that dance and saying like what like you know in what situations like where we all kind of agree that something should be turned into a process and then in what other situations where like no no, if you don't give yourself that outlet to be messy then it'll It'll try to work its way out and you won't be able to control when it comes out. Yeah one of the best examples. So Jim back to you one of the best examples in recent history.

One of my favorite podcasts I ever did with you was the one where you just talked through the history of gas furnaces and you did the whole kind of talk about carbon, luminous flame right and and how you kind have discovered that and that was so awesome and I have not used that ever and I probably never will. honestly like directly I I'll use it, it'll like it'll pop out some of way and uh and that's just like I don't know it's that doesn't work into a into a tidy process for commissioning. You get what I'm saying like so you so to your point you'd have to have both. I guess I Here's here's Here's my thought because just listen to everybody here is you know we I we were talking to Tai the other day about this difference between a labor shortage and a skilled labor shortage right? And the fact is today we we need to bring people into our industry faster and Technology a way that we're going to be able to do that.

And so you know, while we're not going to change the people that are in our industry, we can definitely accelerate the learning curve for the people we're bringing in right and using tools like Measurequick and True Flow Grid and things like that, we can accelerate their value. I Think easily by five years because I think until you're literally I think till you're in your fifth year you're you're in liability to a company. You're not an asset yet. I Think we can and we're proven it.

We can make assets within eight to 10 weeks. If they have people skills, we can take people from Industries like Xerox or even even a person behind a cash register that's got good people skills and turn them into a not not into a technician, not into a service technician, but into somebody that can go out in the field. hook up a set of probes, get data off the equipment. Now has a way to connect back to the office or back to the service person or back to somebody to get assistance with that with real data that's actually going to help and assist solving the problem and get good results.

So you know it's um, is it A? Is it a great tool for everybody? Absolutely Yeah. I Do think. but is it it is a solution for our Workforce Emic, right? It's it's It's a way that we can. We can actually bring people in and if we teach them that process then it's not going to be.

It's not going to be new to them, right? It's not People want to process I Would disagree with Brian on the fact that you know these these people Brian doesn't want to process. Let's clarify that. Brian But it's people don't want to change, right? If you've never had to follow a process, you don't really want to change it unless something is happened so radical that you go, you know we. We've got to put this process in place.

In other words, like companies don't test for carbon monoxide until they have a CO poisoning. right? You get a CO poisoning. You kill a customer. It disrupts your entire company.

Everybody goes. You know. I Mean it's it's it would be. It would be tragic.

It'd be the worst thing could happen to a company. But believe me, you would have combustion analyzers on every single truck the next day and you'd be selling low SE SE Co alarms the next day. If you burn down a house all of a sudden, you change your mindset, right? And we're coming into a time where if we don't commission systems properly, they aren't going to work. They aren't going to work when it's peak season.

People are going to have high electric abills. It's going to cause all this pain that we've never had to experience before and you got to choice of either getting in front of it or just working through it. But eventually you're going to end up implementing technologies that are going to help alleviate that pain. Because it is.

It is coming and you know that the only way you're you're not going to participate in that is if you decide you're just going to install what you've always installed. you're going to do Straight cooling with electric resistive Heat or with gas furnaces and just keep doing the same thing. Um and foro you know the the the market opportunities but it's interesting. Like when you look at California or sorry, look at Florida it's just said no more electric resistive heat.

You're gonna have to put you know heat pumping for your primary heat source. So it's like there's regulatory requirements that are going to that are going to change behavior and and we we're going to have to embrace some technologies to help us through that or we're just just not going to You know we're just going to uh, we're just going to enjoy the pain that it produces. So I think it's I think it's just a matter of of of time and uh, but I think you know Measure Quick. We're really trying to solve multiple problems.

one is better diagnostics for technicians and I think we? we're doing that and I think you know. Obviously, it was very interesting we've gotten. That's probably one of the most used features of Measurequick in a lot of Uh HPC School articles are leveraged for that and I'm I'm super glad people use that feature of Measure Quick, but then onboarding new talent in our industry that's not necessarily industry experience I think we can do that and I we're proven we can do that already with with Measure Quick and then properly commissioning systems. Um, you know, the building.

America study proved that that we are far exceeding the status quo with people getting good results, and there's nothing in my opinion more valuable than not servicing what you just sold right? We shouldn't have to touch the system for the first three to five years aside from Filter changes and maybe some light coil cleanings if you're in an area where the cotton wood flies and things like that. but overall, these systems are pretty much as maintenance-free as your home refrigerator, right? If we get the charge right and we get the air flow right and they're sealed, Go! I Want to come back to measure quick? so go ahead. Okay, but I am kind of coming back to measure quick where it's like, yes, that's how the systems should be. You know, don't touch them for three years.

don't don't kind of. uh, do those intrusive measurements. But then there's the messy Anarchists that are going to be touching the systems because that's what they wanted gauges out. So it's like, how do you balance? That is the is really the question.

and I think there's a place I So and this is I make it sound I I use the term Anarchist as a just being extreme just to be silly. Um, there are people who are attracted to this trade and are in this trade because they are puzzle solvers. They like solving puzzles. Um, they like a new challenge.

If you ask most technicians the good ones. what do you like about this trade? You know the number one thing they say. They say it's something new every day. That's what they say like I've done it like I've done the have so many updates in Metas Quick.

Prime We're constantly changing the damn thing, trying to give the anarchist what they need, right? right? That's it? Yeah, just okay. fine. I'm Gonna Change on no and I Want to point? Even though you're you're an anarchist, you have a solid process that you live your life by, sure, but you just don't like it if somebody says here Live Your Life by this process and that's what I'm saying like and and if I if I'm honest about some of the stuff that I bristle at with even things like Qi or Measure Quck or anybody Who or or a government regulation. if it's not a it, it may be the best idea in the world and it may be exactly what I should do.

But it's not my idea, right? Well look I'm being honest I think there's a lot of people who feel that way. It's like you're imposing something on me and and or or you're making me feel like I'm worse or dumb or or lousy or something because I'm not doing it that way. And so the question going back to the original question which is why is an adoption what we think it should be I think you are I think you're I think you're you're getting it now which is Um, there is this Market which is massive which is commissioning sales design. um that can use Measurequick? Um wait I'll pause there for a second because using the measurequick has been a challenge and like Jim's the first to be like you know, well you know I didn't I didn't make up Measurequick 1.0 for you I made it for me so I could do diagnostics and talk to other people and other people were like well I'm not you Jim how the hell this thing work So we got to a 2.0 process and that I It took me a while to really understand where we were and how we completely changed what everybody was used to looking at.

and they're like this sucks. So we have realized that people don't want to be taught how to use it. They don't want to be guided that way. even though we're like you know what we're g to give you a guide of workflow, we're gonna help you and people are like no, no, no I don't want that but maybe some do again.

People is not. There's TX here who you talk to. They are not going to love a guided workflow for themselves, but but hopefully they can learn to implement that in their businesses because it's necessary I agree with what you're saying. but there's two things.

so Jim wants to talk about new people in the industry. That's what a guy workflow does like. Okay, I can actually go you. but we are reworking the whole process.

We're going to give you your own flexibility. You don't like our checklist. we are now revamping. Make your own dang checklist if that's what you really need in the background.

So whatever it is you need to do to personalize measurequick. That's what we're doing right now and we're going to spend the next few months being okay I want measure quick to do this and I want it to work this way. and maybe this is the workflow that I want my guys to follow or people to follow and that's what we're going to try and come out with. Uh, you know, early this spring it's like you know what? It's your meic quick.

You use it as you need to, not the way we told you to or Jim thought you should do it this way. So we are realizing that you know what we're not. We can't tell you how to use it, We just hope you use it and we're going to give you some amazing flexibilities that's coming your way as to like. You know what? this I wish measurequick did this.

That's where we're going to give you the option to say okay I can make it do that modular Yeah, modular is key I mean it. Really it. It really is a key way of thinking about it because now you have these sort of uh, discrete units that you do create and design but you allow people to mix and match them the way they want because really the goal should be out the out like getting to a certain outcome. but the process to get there that that like if if there isn't the ownership then people feel like the agency's gone.

As you said yeah, a perfect example like at: Kaos I I want my guys to wash condensers before they do measurements I want them to pull the tops from condensers. lay it down in the grass, wash the inside, then do measurements. Okay, there's a complete revolt against my process within. Kaos And it starts with Bert It's all his fault.

Uh, but the reality is probably right. It probably is better to take the measurements first, even though maybe the condenser is a little dirty. It's just not the way I did it right. So I I so I have to allow space for that.

Um, because there often is a a Um benefit and cost to each way of doing it. But well, yeah there is. But now are you going to just let that organically kind of just ride out? Or are you going to try to reconcile it because there might be business value in reconciling it? Well, so this is my weakness. I Guess get in business.

I Do let it ride out. Um, but that's just me. uh I Don't think other people should probably do that. It's probably not the best way to run a business.

It's a better way to make people feel, uh, like an individual within a company. And so I Here we highly value pointy people, like really strong points and really weak points and we figure out how to make that work. Um, that's not what most people can do, but the reason we can do that is because we're highly Diversified and highly vertically integrated. Um, and and that is a different business model now I Think that that will actually become a more common business model once the private Equity bubble bursts and everybody divests and it becomes this gigantic Uh crap show which I think is coming and I don't just think it I know it.

It's how it happens. Trees don't grow to the sky. Eventually this stuff melts down. so uh, again, that has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

We're not going down that road because I just pissed off everybody who's in that World Um which I Don't mind pissing few. there's very few because everybody's underneath. They're all at the top, right? The ones who buy who send me the 10 emails a week trying to buy Kos Um, but but but my point is is that um I think there is an opportunity for you to serve both and I think there was this sort of mindset shift what I saw happen at Measurequick was we're serving the Tex Oh no, actually they can't pay Now we're working to try to serve the other side and I think by modular modularizing I don't know how to say that. Phrase it.

now you can have value for the technician. You can have value for the business owner who recognizes that commissioning and sales and design is really important because I think that's where that's where the rubber meets the road technician workflows. There's just so much variety, right? Like it's so hard to figure that out. Like the the steps that you take to to like.

Here's the five things you should hit in Florida and the five things you should hit in California and the five things you should hit in Ohio or New York. Those vary a lot. like the the common equipment there, but the commissioning Basics and the building science principles and all that tend to be a little bit more consistent. Or at least, or at least the juice is worth the squeeze, right? There's enough money there that if you're going to put in a $15,000 air conditioning system, you've got the money to at least do a proper commissioning.

Yeah, because like Jim the the the process is like the processes that you have. there are a lot of. There's a lot of value in that and you have all the experience to be able to prove that. That's that's how to, um, kind of achieve consistent results.

Um, but uh, the kind of being able to relinquish the process to people where they will be inefficient and maybe getting to a certain outcome. But perhaps it is the outcome that matters and not the process. No, I I I Agree with that. I mean I Think at the end of the day when Brian's talking about wash and condensers first is because the the the outcome is the the same we should if you wash the if the condenser is clean, you start with the clean, then when you're making your other measurements you eliminated that as a variable and and if you had to wash it anyway, well then you've just got it done ahead of time.

So um but if you're using it as a sales tool to show somebody where where your systems started at and where your system ended at, then maybe you've lost that opportunity to uh um to demonstrate that to the customer. So if you're outcome for your customer is just hey, your system is going to work perfectly when I'm done um then I think okay then maybe you've achieved that outcome. but if your if your outcome is showing the value of the service that you provide um with some data then you you've missed that opportunity. So it it depends on uh, how aware your consumer is and how much data you need to to to to actually justify the value of the service that you provide right? and I think um, the way Ber does it, it would lend more to being able to demonstrate the value of the service he does.

whereas the way Brian does it, the value is still there. but it may be. It may be harder to prove right so it's there's. There's advantages and disadvantages to both, but I Also I think it's important too that you know everybody understand that we at heart we still service technicians and at heart you know we look at at how we're going to um, uh, monetize an application because this is you Got to realize we have about I want to say gosh over over 12 people on this that we support payroll for and we we we Actually some things we do are for are for survival of the company and make sure that the company's profitable and making money moving forward so that we can continue to.

Sur Technicians you know I know sometimes technicians get mad when we change things when we do things and it's like but imagine if we if if we closed up our doors and measure quick was no more and we don't want that to happen when we're looking for. You know how does this survive Generations How do we keep this going as a successful business? Who do we partner with? You know we we're We're 100% bootstrapped. We have done this from we have, we have no um we have no debt, We have no owners but the current owners. We have no big corporate Partners in this we have invested every dollar back into people um and back into the the industry.

Back into you guys to make this a better product for you. And so you know sometimes like when we shut stuff down and you guys you know trash us with bad reviews because we disrupted or you know moved your you know moved your cheese a little bit. it it it's uh it's it's very you know I I Had to get a little thick skin and not take it personally because I I realized you know we're trying to serve a community and this is the only way the community's voice can actually respond back. But I think it's also important to realize that you know at heart we've never, ever changed.

Uh, what we're doing or how we want to do it. And we're We're trying to make you know the best product out there, to help technicians as a whole do their job better and the way that you want to use it is completely up to you. We're we're adding in new ways, not taking out old ways. Um, and you know some of the things we talked about early on.

You know? um I think it's important to realize that. Um, you know I We're like when you're in this Hbac school group. when you're in me quick, you're you're actually part of a family and uh, it's it. It's it's you know we.

We have a lot of people in our families. a lot of different personalities, a lot of a lot of different things in there. But at the end of the day, we're all we're all you know part of this of this group, this giant family of people, and um, and we're all trying to help each other. We're all trying to make the A Better Community we're all trying to do you know thing you know, help each other out through there.

so you know we ask you guys things like taking us to your service manager and helping us to grow the business is so we can make a better product for you and um you know we? we don't You know Brian's spent years and years trying to get measure Quick implemented and I knew it wasn't the right product for him because the way that they do service in Florida is different. Yet you know for five years we've supported the HV Hbac School event because we believe in the community we believe in in the in all the work that Ryan's doing with Hbac school and all the educational things he's doing and we know it takes money and effort far beyond what any admission would ever bring in uh to cover the cost of of bringing all these people together. and so I think you know those are those are important things to us. those are like our when we are looking at how we're going to move measure Quii forward.

it's all about servicing technicians but we also because it's a you know we're nine years I don't know if you guys realize is we're nine years into this um it's not. you know we're also a business and so it's it's that balance between like what we can give away which Joe said is about 90% of measurequick but also supporting us on the Uh on the adoption company wide side and I think Brian was was spot on. Not not everybody in the company is going to use Measurequick I Really do believe these two new roles we've sort of carved out the The Tech Tech Efficiency Specialist and the Advanced Residential Commissioning Specialists are going to be roles that we're going to see within a company that are going to like redefine how Measurequick is used. So maybe it's not used with every Tech in your company but ACH is going to come back out and commission those systems.

Atch is going to go out and assess systems that were like like B's doing. now where these systems were not installed properly in Cal in Florida right? So we are going to have the end result is the same for Measure Quick. If if if every system in your company every new installation is checked by three guys versus checked by 20 guys, it it makes no difference to us because the end results the same. Every installation is checked.

So I think what? where we've made a mistake is trying to say companywide, you need to, uh, promote this technology where it's in. it's not. It's not technician wide companywide everybody would benefit from using it, but at the end of the day we just need to make sure that all the jobs are properly commissioned and if if if that happens, everything's the same Same and I think bringing people in from outside the industry that are either either they're champions of Measure Quick. They love Measure Quick.

They love what it does, they want to use it for that. Um, you know internally, those are the people that I think would be great for those roles or bring in people in externally that we can bring up the speed really quickly with the new guided workflows and the processes that Joe's built out to to make that a reality in a few weeks or months versus five years, right? So it's it's these are these are challenging times. but you know we we appreciate the the feedback. and I don't mean you know they're they're challenging times because of the transition we're going through as an industry, this whole electrification thing is is, uh, spinning up money, spinning up things is changing.

You know the whole 10x thing like Brian was going over VCS all of a sudden transitioning from um from being customer Centric to profit Centric But I think you gota? You know we always talk about Chad Simpson and we do because he's in our backyard. We work with Chad a lot, but Chad's achieved tremendous profitability and he's servicing the same or fewer customers. He's just doing better work and there's a lot of money to be found on the backside by spending more time with each customer finding more Revenue per ticket than there is with just doing more jobs, right? So it's mindset changes. Chad also is a process orientated person and he but he left creativity to his technicians and even still been able to to to do that.

So I mean it is actually a compulsive problem that he actually kind of has about that so they he'll write out a you know 400 page process knowing that it changed by the time they got to the last page but he now knows list I have something to compare to and improve. Yeah um, but he all of his guys have the all his people have this opportunity to use the process and use it to their own individuality to realize that they have a great culture and that was one of we talked about earlier. It's probably another topic, but how is it that your culture is so positive when I go to other companies and I'm like this is toxic. So what is it that you would advise other people out there because it isn't? It isn't top down, it is.

it is universal. You have a lot of great technicians, They can create an awesome culture right? even though their management isn't really on board with it. Definitely isn't top down because I suck. That's the that's the point.

That's what you're trying to say. and I agree. So the the culture isn't dictated from top down, but it is enabled from top down. Is that like CU you who you are has enabled that culture to form within the people and then how you hire like like you are, a filter for all of that.

Yeah, and it's really key to to recognize there are a few characteristics that are non-negotiable Like people have to have integrity, right? They have to have good character. Um, for a good portion of what we do, you have to have a reasonable amount of people skills, right? Some of it, not so much. if you're if you're a refrigeration installer, not so much. It's okay.

Um, all these residential inants who are listening Oh my gosh. I need to reevaluate my skill set. Well, that's what the Arcs is for. Like, you don't have to be a people person.

Yeah, those are those are non-negotiables At least the first couple that I mentioned that you have to have. But then beyond that, um, there there are. There is room in HVAC for every type of person. Um, they're just not all techs and this is the thing that we always.

um so again, when I was at one of these panels, they kept saying hey, this is coming Texs Better educate themselves on this text. better learn this Tex better get good at this text, better get good at that. It's like that's funny. What are you going to get good at? You know, like the people on the panel, I'm thinking about myself even it's like we always push this down and pretend that it's tax of the ones who need to change and I think you you guys I'm preaching to the choir here.

I Think you've You've already assessed this and you've seen it That what has to happen is we have to carve out these, um, different uh positions for different characteristics, core characteristics and I think a lot of times we say things like we got to get people in so let's make it easier to get them in and then they'll become technicians. Well, often they won't. It's like you're best sales guys. I I I use Tyler as an example.

Tyler was a technician. Uh, and he was. He's a decent Tech He knows how things work and all that, but he becomes very apparent when that's not aligned right. Tyler needs to be in front of people talking to them all day long.

So he's in sales and maybe that's kind of a dirty word. Well, we're done sales for Comfort advisors, whatever you want to call it. He's the guy who talks to people about big transactions and he has no problem going them saying. Mrs Smith It's $25,000 and here's all the things that you get with this.

and here's why we've assessed that: We think this is it. Here's some other options. He doesn't mind that I Hate that I don't want to do that. That's not the job I want I'm also not a designer I Don't want to spend six hours pouring over plans like a lot of a lot of the people here do.

I'm a technician I'm G to go in and fix stuff I like fixing stuff I like understanding problems I like troubleshooting problems. All that and so there's room for all of those people. That's the message and so yeah, there's going to be a small subset who's going to be the true blue old school technician of your company. You're going to have installers who are Craftsman Jim We talked about this years years ago.

this idea of the of the mechanic versus the technician I call him a Craftsman because I have I have Carpenters who work for us and they could go be an installer much quicker than a tech could become an installer and that's like that's anathema to a lot of our thinking about how this works. It's like well, no I started I was a installer and then I became a maintenance tech and then I became a technician and that's how it has to happen. It's like H not really I mean those are those can be different people and I think that's a lot of what I'm hearing you say and I think that is super exciting and probably the way that you get to a lot more adoption I Me: Sure Quick. Honestly? yeah.

Jim you're silent yeah Jim What's going on I'm just listening. You know I mean sometimes, uh, sometimes a wise man uh has to back up and listen more than he has to speak right? because I don't get this opportunity very often just to hear hear from the outside what uh, what we could do on the inside to and if we're headed the right direction I mean it's um, uh, there, there's there's uh, there. There's a lot of wisdom in in um what you guys are saying I think um you know it's it's and there's a lot of personalities in this industry. And I think if if anything you know the the biggest challenges is U We're trying to.

uh when you when you try and bring consistency, you got to bring consistency to the people that that want it. Not not not to everybody, right? Because they're not going to use your tool exactly the way you you want it to be used. Um, this is uh, you know we We tried regulatory things like in California and they failed miserably where they said you know you're gonna, you're going to do this this and this when you put in a new installations and only one to three perc of it gets adopted, right? Um, uh, you know, sure as heck when we eliminate electric strip heat, somebody's going to drive across the border to Georgia and pick them up and drive them back in because they're going to put them in anyway because they're not gonna. They're not going to care what California says they're just going to.

they're going to do what they think is right for their customer. Um, people that don't want to sell uh Heat pump systems are going to continue to put in. Um, you know they're going to continue to put in furnaces of straight cooling because they think that's what's best for them and that's best for their customer. So it's the whole industry is not without its challenges.

I think it's just a matter of you know for those of you that that like are interested in Opportunity are interested in in in uh you know I think I think there's a lot of that. a lot of that for you I mean it's there is no short, There is no shortness of of opportunity if you can. Embrace A little bit change in your company and there's there's a lot of ways to increase profitability aside from the the 10x version of the world right? Because I think what Chad's showing us is is and companies like him Rayo Cook's another one that there's There's profitability to be had from both ends. We can, we can better service our customers, generate more Revenue per ticket and um and uh and and reduce callbacks and make profitability that way.

So it's I don't know I think I think I I It was an interesting, interesting dialogue I think we should go back. It has been seven years since we had our Mastermind meeting. Maybe we should go back and have another one. Brian Because yeah, that'd be fun.

Yeah all all the people around Ste Stephen Ren's even here uh this week and he was one of the ones uh so yeah yeah. I got a picture of him massaging your head. so oh okay. I didn't know that existed I thought we discussed that we weren't going to share those pictures online.

Is this like a blackmail thing? Yeah, we're not talking. Maybe want to do another? Master yeah maybe I don't Now do we do? Are we G to talk about like our whole like the whole thing where we lay down in the coffins and all that or no. that's Yale sorry I forgot not talking about Speedos either. no Speedo discussions I do want to come back to your your comment I think is a uh of you talked about what are the I'm looking for integrity I'm looking for hardworking people.

but now there's actually this personality assessment that I need to figure out with this person who I'm trying to hire. Yeah and uh I think that's something that's really not really thought of about from their Hrr person or the the supervisor or the owner is that they've been like, what's your skills? What do I need to teach you and they're not realizing? Well, this personality needs to be into this position I think that's a major Revolution that we could actually embrace well and so many people do it with things nowadays like personality tests. and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but that's not how we do it. What I do is if you are honest in your definition of the role uh and then you really look for people who are going to want to do that job not not at a spiration but are actually going to want to do that job then they self sort so much of it is about like okay, you're comparing resums and job descriptions traditional, corporate and it's all baloney, right? It's all marketing if you can strip that away.

If you've ever seen one of our uh job descriptions like the real ones like I put things in there that like people like what this doesn't belong in a job description and even in the interview process we're super honest. It's like hey, here's the really sucky parts of this job. uh, are the good parts going to be acceptable in order to overcome the sucky? Parts Um, it it helps a lot lot in the hiring process. and I think and I think and that's a process right? I'm saying I'm literally saying process so there is still a process even at Kaos but you can make processes human and that's what I think so there's nothing wrong with writing things down.

Checklists are amazing. like checklist Manifesto I know you love that book Jim I Love that book. That stuff is that stuff is great. There's not, that is all amazing, but just leave a lot of room in there for Humanity because it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter how tight your process is or how much time you spent writing something. If peopl