Tim Bagnall demonstrates brazing with and without nitrogen flowing with 5 different rod/solder types. He also demonstrates the use of solder rings as well as the Hilmor swage tool.
When Tim brazes without flowing nitrogen, the inside of the copper tube gets covered in black scale. That scale can flake up and clog up your filter-driers, discharge line mufflers, and other components that connect to your copper piping. When he opens the piping up, the copper is weak and corroded.
However, when Tim brazes WITH nitrogen, the copper tube remains black scale-free, regardless of solder type. Tim uses the Harris 0, Sil-Fos 15, Blockade, Blockade FC, and Safety-Silv 56 FC solder on his joints while flowing with nitrogen. (Remember, most of the time, flux-coated rods are for dissimilar metals.)
When using solder rings WITHOUT flowing nitrogen, Tim starts off by using the Hilmor swage tool. He then uses the Sil-Fos solder rings. Some scale developed inside the pumping without nitrogen. When Tim uses solder rings WITH nitrogen, no scale forms on the inside of the piping. However, exceptionally hot tubing can also contribute to flake formation.
Tim also shows us his port setup.
A final word of caution: solder rings may slip and fall down into the joint if they get too hot.
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes, and find our handy calculators at https://www.hvacrschool.com/.
When Tim brazes without flowing nitrogen, the inside of the copper tube gets covered in black scale. That scale can flake up and clog up your filter-driers, discharge line mufflers, and other components that connect to your copper piping. When he opens the piping up, the copper is weak and corroded.
However, when Tim brazes WITH nitrogen, the copper tube remains black scale-free, regardless of solder type. Tim uses the Harris 0, Sil-Fos 15, Blockade, Blockade FC, and Safety-Silv 56 FC solder on his joints while flowing with nitrogen. (Remember, most of the time, flux-coated rods are for dissimilar metals.)
When using solder rings WITHOUT flowing nitrogen, Tim starts off by using the Hilmor swage tool. He then uses the Sil-Fos solder rings. Some scale developed inside the pumping without nitrogen. When Tim uses solder rings WITH nitrogen, no scale forms on the inside of the piping. However, exceptionally hot tubing can also contribute to flake formation.
Tim also shows us his port setup.
A final word of caution: solder rings may slip and fall down into the joint if they get too hot.
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes, and find our handy calculators at https://www.hvacrschool.com/.
So this video is actually made by Tim bagging. All tim is a guy from a technician from arizona, and he pointed out to me that he had done a lot of testing with flowing nitrogen at very low flow rates. So three to five SCFM, which is just you, can't even feel it coming out when you're flowing it and he was saying he had really good luck with it, and so he wanted to do some videos showing if you don't flow nitrogen. If you do, if you really overheat it, he also wanted to show the use of solder rings, as we had talked about that in previous podcasts.
So Tim, I appreciate you doing this. This is all of his work that he did in his shop and work to any of you out there who listen to the podcast or who watched the channel. If there's anything that you want to shoot a video on your iPhone or whatever that you think might be beneficial to others, just shoot it, you can send it to me raw and all edit it and make it into something that will help other technicians. So I hope you enjoy.
We all have some scrap upper around and that's what I'm using pretty sure everyone's got a bucket like this somewhere bunch of old parts. That's what I'm going to use the stick of Haris zero. I found it an addict, figured I'd! Try it out see what that does. This is 15 % inside is already very, very black.
That's a lot of scale! You that's a lot of junk in there think about that. Those flakes going through one of those it'll get clogged up. Real quick or even one of those just start, clogging it up flowing nitrogen doll, is floating all right start, the first joint with the stick of Harris zero. I found in an attic with nitrogen.
You second joint is so fast 15 blockade. Next joy is blockade. Fc sweepy right on the first time I tried any of those with the flex on them, see what happens. Probably wrong use and Flint torch set up, but we'll see what it looks like inside you, one 0:15 blockade blue and the orange with nitro super-clean, not really fond of those make sure it's good and clean.
Take the swage tool open it up a little bit more good tight fit, get a tight fit there. This is cellphone rings here, and I made up this piece so that it can actually be purging while it's flowing, so it's very similar to a system that has the other port open using. So phones rings the guy right in there turn on the Nitro. All right down to five push just noticed a bunch of flakes falling out the bottom as I was cutting it.
That's awesome, so this all's all knocked a lot of the scale off of there. Still not as clean as with nitro, but if you get those rings too hot, they won't wick up the joint. The gravity will bring them down nice and clean, perfect good turn off the nitro. You well, that's how you make flakes it really freaking hot all right! So the first thing that I have to say again is that the amount of time that Tim took on this is just ridiculous.
I mean to go through and do what he did with the multiple layers and all the different things that he thought of. I just appreciate Tim bagging all for doing this. Thank you Tim and the next thing. I want to go through just a quick summary here. He used a lot of different types of rods. Whenever you have a flux, coated rod, you really that's really for dissimilar metals. So that's if you're going to copper to brass copper to steal something like that, but he did it just. For example, sakes you could see the different.
You know how they worked with copper to copper, but in general, if you're, working, copper to copper, you can do five, ten fifteen, you don't have to use flux, coated rod and a lot of people do use zero. The issue is - and this is what you saw is that the hotter you get the tubing, the more you make flakes now again in the. If you have completely displaced the oxygen inside the lines - and you don't have to worry about it, it's perfectly clean and you don't have to worry as much about heat control. But obviously you need to worry about heat control for other reasons, and he showed that even specially with the solder rings.
He showed that if you don't have good heat control and good heat placement, then, instead of wicking the solder up into the joint, it can actually fall down into the joint and that's true of regular solder as well. So you want to make sure that you have good heat control for other reasons, but flowing nitrogen at proper rates does actually give you a better chance at not making flakes, even if you don't have exactly perfect heat control, obviously, for anybody who wants to criticize Tim? Yes, I know he wasn't using a striker. I prefer the use of a striker over a over a lighter for safety reasons, and you know he was doing this in his garage, so he doesn't have all of his proper safety equipment. So always, if you're actually doing this in real life, follow proper safety procedures and only if you're a professional, so this isn't for DIY people.
This is for professionals, professional HVAC technicians. If you have any videos that you'd like to create, I would love you to send them to me and I'd be happy to produce them in a similar way that I produce this and kind of add some commentary to them. And so all you have to do is just email me, Brian, be rya n at HVAC, our school comm, while we're on that subject. If you go to HVAC our school, you can subscribe to the podcast.
You can subscribe to our daily tech tips where almost every day, including weekends, I try to get out a tech tip. These are things I write, so I actually sit down and write these tech tips based on my experience, as well as things that I've learned along the way through books and training courses that I've gone to if you're interested in contributing to tech tips. I would also like that, if you're into writing, which doesn't seem to be a lot of people into writing, I'm not even into writing either, but unfortunately I have to be if I'm going to do HVAC school right. Finally, I would ask that you subscribe to the podcast now the podcast is just audio, it's not video, and a lot of people ask: why would you do just audio well, the reason is is because, as technicians we spend a lot of time driving and it's a Great opportunity for us to consume some content that it can only be done with the audio format. Of course, you can listen to audio on YouTube videos and I've done that a lot too. But if it's not designed for audio, then a lot of times they're talking about things that you can't see, and that creates an issue so on the podcast we specifically talked through topics and about things that you can learn from, even if you're not seeing it. That's the idea: it's not again, nothing that I do here replaces getting your hands on the work and actually doing it. So don't don't hear me wrong in that regard you actually, after you actually have to do the work in order to to be good at doing what we do day in and day out.
But my hope is that I can help especially junior technicians or maybe those technicians who never got a full grasp of the theory, help them take it to the next level. So thank you for being here. We'll see you next time in our next video or on the podcast, if you go there for HVAC school, have a good one. You.
Nice 1st-gen Neon.
Do you find You-tube to be unbelievably, egregiously, pathetically slow these days?
It took around 15 minutes to download and play this video. Then there are all the ads you have to wade through …..horrible, exasperating !!!!!
Wait a second…… Different variables between the 2 tests.
Scientific method 101
Why wouldn’t he use clean copper when not purging nitrogen? Are you in Kanata ?
If you cap both ends of pipe when brazing without nitrogen you get very little oxidisation as the small amount of oxygen in the pipe gets used up and no more can enter.
From what I saw Brazing without nitro shouldn't even be an option. Service area Orleans??
I would always use nitro when soldering because this is the way I was taught at TAFE here in Australia. I had a supervisor, during the course of my employment, scold me one time for bleeding nitro through and I stood up to him and told him that it is very dodgy not to and the carbon ash will contaminate the system and cause blockages at the filter drier. He was an asshole. I've never had a compressor fail as a result because all my work was clean.
This is an excellent video.
Could a do it yourselfer use his MiG gas instead?
Bryan: Loved watching this guy braze.. THIS is how you learn, practice, practice, practice. He’s definitely going to have knee problems in a few years if he keeps this up. Are you in Ottawa ?
That a dodge neon in the back?? Service area Ottawa??
I used the rings ccx with the captain hook. It worked well.
I feel like I really fit into this channel. Really explains some of the things that I often find in the field. Thx 👍
First I thought cooling the pipe right after is not correct and second you should never use a lighter to ignite that torch. just my thoughts
We braze all the time without nitrogen. That’s what the filter is for.
That was fun and I'm not even an ac repairman! Thanks Tim!
Very nice demo!
If you’ve brazed an open pipe without nitro then looked inside, you then fully understand the need to flow nitro
I do a lot of work on chillers in nyc and we required to use nitrogen no matter what and in case of burned compressor we change all the pipes before installing new one ☝️
I don't understand how anyone can dislike this video very informative excellent content appreciate the lessons keep up the good work
A lot of ppl don’t use nitro due to: 1- being lazy to connect nitro bottle 2- wanting to complete the job faster 3-being ignorant
What are the silver solder copper rings called? Can't seem to find them online.
Nice job and video Are you in Nepean ?
Always used CO2, never had a problem
Umm tweaking?
Good info but bro seems like he is meth fueled.
Nothing against but set up and demo lack any safety efforts.
Hold up. I though rapidly cooling the joint right after brazing is a no no as it could weaken the joint? Or am I mistaken on that? Service area Nepean??
Sorry as a teacher HVAC this is very unprofessional !!! if i see this in my exams on certifying technicians they would not succeed .
Strikers are more dangerous than lighters. I never use them.
Wait how is it that I and everyone I've ever seen never uses nitrogen this way. Huh??? Are you in Barrhaven ?
First of all , sound quality was terrible. Second ,can't believe this is a school with no bench with a vise mounted on it and the person doing the work in the video has to work on his hands &knees, just unbelievable.
The sound level on this video was so low, had it turned up all of the way, but could barely hear it.
Sound was also out of sync, but the low levels mattered.
Funny that happened with the fancy mic and all!
For refrigerator also need same
I dont see why you guys spend time and effort but using junk pipes with oil inside. When you heat that up off course it will burn produce ash. Im not even sure the first pipe you braze is clean inside or already rusty even before you braze. Please use band saw for that cut. Dont see a purpose of you doing this. I saw big company doing costco system brazing w/o bleeding nitrogen. Its more maintenance money baby.
excellent video, thanks
Nice video Verry educational. Can someone tell me where to get that connection piece for the nitrogen hose? And, is it always recommanded to use solder rings? Even for smaller diameters, 1/4" or so..?
Why does the last braze never seal. I always get pin holes in the last braze, so what ill do is make my last braze on the liquid line before the filter drier with the nitro off. Figured the drier would get any crumbs plus you dont need much heat for a liquid line Service area Kanata??
How much nitrogen pressure l will put on gauge miter when brezing.
Hi new to HVAC. Question so when brazing with a nitro purge i first attach the nitro from suction side then open liquid line and then flow the nitro from one side to the other while brazing? Just trying to make sure I understood..Thanks great videos keep up loading.
Very good thanks 🙏🏼
I also flow nitrogen when I use zoom lock
somebody get this guy a striker please before he blows his hair up ! wow christmas is coming ,,,,in a week
It will improve your utube channel if your volume make it loud.
Brazing with solder…….?
pipe sitting around in bucket how much stuff was in it from laying around
A lot of people don’t realize that the copper oxide formed from not purging while brazing gets into the compressor oil and raises its electrical conductivity. When this conductive oil coats the terminal block inside the compressor, power can then track to ground and cause a terminal to blow out of the pot. You can identify a problem brewing by using a megohmmeter
Thanks tim
Nice video. I have a job that has miles of ACR tubing brazed without Nitrogen. Now compressors and valves are failing is there a way to remove /clean up the oxide from the copper? Perhaps some fluid than be circulated then flushed out?
Nitrogen is for pussies and im becoming one.
BRYAN, is nitrogen optional in HVAC-R repair? i.e. If I discover a refrigeration contractor not using nitrogen, do i have a legitimate beef and I can demand company dispatch better tech to do repair over, or they can simply say, "Kiss our a$$ and hand over the money." ???
Great video! I started using the press tool by Milwaukee and it makes my job much easier.
Bryan, thanks for creating HVAC school. I'm looking forward to future content.