The sand is everywhere, and it was a bit hot... but it all worked out
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This video is brought to you by Sportlin. Quality, integrity and tradition. Well, I'm called on a walk-in cooler that's not working. It's like 50 something degrees in here right now.
This guy says almost 60. 50? whatever. So uh, coils are not iced up. Everything seems to be running down here.
so let's head up to the roof and see what's going up there with the condensing unit. All right. this is my walk-in cooler right here. So we come up onto the roof.
the unit is not running compressors warm, but it's not like hot. like it's off on overload. Really? huh? All right. Well let me get some things opened up and we'll start checking voltages and trying to figure out what's going on here.
All right? Um, I spun the condenser fan motors. They spin so they're not just like seized or anything. We come in here. I've got my meter right here over here so you can actually see it There you go.
All right, let's go ahead and check voltage coming in. Uh yeah. coming into the contactor, we should have three phase 208 volts playing. One to two, nothing, two to three, nothing, one to three, nothing.
So we've got no voltage coming to this unit. Power runs over to a breaker panel over here. so let's go have a look and see what's going on over there. Um I've had a lot of bad experience with this breaker panel and it getting full of sand.
Okay, so walk-in cooler is right here. It doesn't feel like it's tripped. Oh wait, no it is tripped. Dang it.
Oh, that sucks. Let's turn it off. let's go over here. We don't want to reset it yet.
You want to check to see if anything's shorted to ground before we reset it? All right? Hopefully nothing bad happened here. Um, got my meter set to tone on continuity. Okay, and so we're just gonna go around and we're gonna tone everything out to ground to see if there's any potential shorts or any possible shorts to ground that would have caused a breaker to trip before we reset it. I'm gonna put some alligator clamps on this so I can do this one-handed All right.
So I'm gonna test. So I got an alligator clamp going to ground right here and I'm testing that it's actually grounding out to the base of the condensing unit and it is okay. So now I should be able to just run along and hit everything and see if I get any tone. Nothing Okay.
check the pressure controls. nothing. Uh, I mean there's not really much more that could have grounded out in here. We tested it right now.
We spun the condenser fan blades. Let's go ahead and test to see if our compressor has tone or continuity across it. So all right, this is a three-phase compressor. I Just pulled the wires real quick and we're going from one line to one line.
so we had. We're just looking to see if we have resistance across the windings of the compressor. This is a three-phase so they should all be equal. 1.8 I mean seems pretty dang good.
1.8 I mean everything seems fine there. I Don't see any shorts? Um, don't see any issues where the wires seem to have rubbed out on anything. Seems fine there. All right. I'm going to put this back together and then I Guess we're going to have to get ready to uh, flip a breaker on and see what happens. All right? Um, I mean again I Spun the motors I Don't see any electrical issues there. They don't seem to have bad bearings the way that they're spinning and stopping. Don't really see any issues there.
I Don't see anywhere where wires have shorted. Nothing seems to be a suspect here. Wires come in. go directly.
I mean I don't see anything here I'm going to put the cover back on I did put service gauges on here I need to purge them and change the refrigerant over to 404. I'm going to put the cap on right here at all possible. Keep that on when you're trying to start these things because you never know what's going to happen. All right.
I'm gonna struggle with that and then we'll get over to the breaker panel. There we go. I Just actually got it. This guy on and there we go.
I mean everything's there. Let's go ahead and get an amp clamp on here and uh, that way we can measure current. There we go. Turn that guy on, um shoots.
what if I put this guy into defrost so that way it doesn't start till I Come back over here. I Think that's a good idea. If you look at it, looks like it stopped working at like 4. P.M yesterday if this time was correct I don't know.
All right. So theoretically it shouldn't start and we can come over here. It's getting warm up here too. Really warm.
These Breakers historically have a history of getting full of sand. see it trip right away. It didn't even turn on. The breaker's full of sand.
Nope. it's not even resetting. Damn it Sand. You're gonna open this up.
This sucks. So check this out. This thing's full of sand. won't reset.
They are now at reset. There's probably sand all stuck inside that thing, shaking it out and I'll pop it back in and hopefully it'll reset all right. Let's see. Yep, that's it right there.
Okay, we'll come back over in a minute and now we're going to come over here. It's in Defrost and we're going to test power to see if we have correct power. So look, it started for a split second until the Defrost clock clicked it off and both condenser fan motor started up. So what the heck is going on here when I Heard the compressor click on for a second too? All right, we're going to measure voltage on this guy because right now, the Defrost clock is interrupting coil voltage to the unit.
So we should have 210 from one to two. Oh, nine from two to three, and 208 from one to three. So we've got voltage going to it. so this thing should turn on right one, two three.
Please don't blow up rough. 15 amps. It's pretty bad. Just on one leg.
That's really bad actually. 16 amps. It's dropping. That's really high current though for that compressor. Let's get in here. and uh, test voltage going out of the contactor 208, 207, 207 So voltage seems fine. Doesn't seem to be a voltage drop when testing across, so we're good there head pressures through the roof because it's under a heavy load. It's really hot outside too.
12 amps, so it's dropping. That was a rough start though. It's currently 107 in the shade and it's only 10 30 in the morning. so it's supposed to be 118 here today.
So this is a 20 amp breaker. It's running, but what is going on here? What caused it to trip? Or is it just sand in the breaker? could have just been sand in the breaker. God I Hate this place. We'll start testing condenser fan motors, see if they're overamping and stuff.
The condenser fan motors are allowed to run 0.43.4 actually 0.49 and they're both running .43 so I don't see a problem with that. Let's put this one on there. Yeah, we're allowed to run 0.49 so they don't seem like a problem. Our sight glass is still flashing, but the system just turned on.
We're kind of expansion. valves are wide open right now. Uh, saturation temperature on the high sides 136 degrees low side is 22 degrees. That doesn't seem too scary.
So what caused this problem? just High startup I mean but the Box temp shouldn't have been that high to cause the high current like we saw right now. We're gonna have to watch it satisfy and then restart a few times to see if we see anything funky. I Mean the compressor doesn't sound horrible. It doesn't sound the greatest, but it's running.
Everything seems okay. Looks like the sight glass is just about to clear up. It's hard for you guys to see because of the sunlight. I mean everything seems decent.
I'm suspect of that contactor. Using a thermal imaging camera, we can see a a really high overheat situation indicated by the white color in the middle of that contactor that is not normal. There's something wrong with that contactor. so I mean I'm letting it run for a while longer.
but I'm going to go ahead and replace that contactor for sure because it's got that hot spot right in the middle and that's kind of weird little odd. So uh, 208 volt contactor with lugs I'm going to go down to my van and pick one of those out right now. I Got a contactor and actually got two condenser fan motors. I'm gonna go ahead and replace those too.
Both of them have slightly gone up in current as they've ran longer and I Just got a bad feeling when we're out here in the desert. you gotta understand there's a lot of sand going around and it's just constantly causing problems. These condenser fan motors are almost changed yearly because of the abuse. They take this equipment too.
Another theory: Number one: the breaker was tripped. It was full of sand. The contactor is overheating on that middle terminal. I'm suspect of the condenser fan motors, but also it's currently 110 degrees in the shade. 109 110 right coming into the condensing unit, it's only 11 A.M In the next three hours, it's gonna get another eight or nine degrees, if not 10 degrees more because on the roof and the sun bouncing off this reflecting, we're already at 387. PSI I Wouldn't be surprised if this guy goes off on high pressure too. just In the Heat of the day and with that startup current that it was running after it cools down and the pressures equalize out, you know? I Don't know. It's hard to say what caused this problem, but everything's running at the moment.
The box is coming down in temp significantly. so I'm gonna go ahead and shut it down now and we're going to change out that contactor and those condenser fan motors. Got the new contactor installed the old one when I Pulled it out and looked at it physically. there's a bad spot inside of it.
We'll autopsy it at the end. Um, pulling the condenser fan blades off these long shanked Allen wrenches really help I'm gonna get them swapped out I'm using 97 21s. They're not my favorite favorite Motors but they're really easy to stock in your truck and they work pretty good. They're pretty versatile so, but again, it's pretty much like a one-year shelf life on these.
like two years. Max But one year is usually The Sweet Spot on these. uh, in this High Ambient temps that I notice you can also see condenser super clean We Just cleaned it so that's good to go. All right, let's hope that nothing blows up I Got it turned off at the defrost clock Again, got both condenser fan motors and the contactor changed out running in the right direction.
that's a good sign. moving air currents at 15. 16. and kind of dropping.
Okay, it's dropping down all right. We're gonna let it run for a while. I'm gonna clean up my messes. It's insanely hot up here like I'm dying right now.
Let's see what my thermometer says: I'm drinking water like a fish 116 so and it's still going to get hotter boy. I'm gonna clean up actually. I'm gonna go downstairs and take a break first now that this has been running for a while. with the new contactor.
See, you don't really see the temperature difference anymore, even in even out. Pretty consistent. so that's a good contact all right. I Don't know what caused this breaker to trip, but I did my best to look at everything I found that the contactor wasn't in the greatest shape.
Let's see what the temperature is now 112 at the moment, so it's kind of moving around. Um, the contactor was in bad shape I want not wasn't I was uh, not very confident about the condenser fan motors I changed them both. The sight glass is clear, pressure seem relatively decent. Don't really see anything else going on.
I'm gonna recommend that they replace that circuit breaker that I had to shake the sand out of. That'll be an electrician's problem and I'm just going to watch the Fox come down to town. But I got to get off this roof because I can't even speak correctly. My words are getting my brain is all Jelly Brain right now. So it's gonna take a while because this thing's been down for a while, but it's running. It's cooling significantly. That's the true box temp right there because those thermometers are registering 50 degrees, but it dropped instantly down to this Temp And then it's Dragon ass And that just means that that's the internal temperature of all the food. So it's going to take a while.
I'm gonna take a lunch, but uh, that's it for this one. We're gonna give the customer the keys, we're going to tell them to get that breaker replaced and uh yeah, just keep an eye on it. Look at the inside of this contactor. you can see the points and how corroded they are like how built up they are.
and then you can see where they actually make contact on the base section, that middle terminal. you can see. that was probably the biggest problem right there where it was meeting this guy right there and it's just in my opinion. sand.
I mean there's sand everywhere in this thing. You guys can still see it as I'm just working on everything. It's just such fine sand that's in there and it's just causing High uh current. I mean you know because it gets stuck in there, creates a resistance? uh, you know and it just has a hard time.
So these contactors are just pretty much throwaways. I have to be hyper aware of the high temperature the ambient temperatures outside when it gets that hot I start to get Jelly Brain and Jelly Brain is not a good thing, right? That's what I mean by Jelly Brain is I start jumbling my words and I'm not like a hundred percent thinking straight. now. It's not like I'm completely incoherent like I know that I'm starting to feel the the Heat hit me and stuff so it's like okay, gotta make sure you're taking a lot of breaks.
A lot of breaks. Okay, um I say this all the time. but you know if it can get too late, too quick, right? Way too quick. So you got to make sure you're taking lots of breaks.
Cooling off your body temperature is not meant to work in that kind of heat. and I realize there's other places that it gets even hotter. and I'm just saying that once you get past 100 degrees, you really still you know need to start really paying attention and it can even happen before 100 degrees, right? Everybody's different. It's it's nobody's better than anybody else.
I mean your body temperature is trying to self-regulate itself. depending on the humidity outside and different things it really starts to affect Now this particular location. um, they get a little bit more, uh, higher in the humidity essentially. um I think it was climbing into the 40 range which I realized that uh, you know there's going to be people saying that's nothing, right? But for he us here in Southern California when it's over 100 degrees and we hit 40 humidity, that's pretty high for us. We're not used to that, right? So our bodies aren't really acclimated to. um, you know that that amount of humidity and again I Totally understand that. You know in other places it can be insane. So just always take care of your body.
Drink: Lots of fluids. Don't drink soda. Okay, soda's the stupidest thing to drink when it's hot outside. Really? I'm I'm dead serious.
It's the dumbest thing to do. Do Not drink soda. no high sugar content stuff I typically drink multiple Waters and then I might throw one or two Gatorades in for the entire day. Personally, that's what works for me.
but I try to drink water like a fish, right? and I Know that doesn't make sense, but that's just one of those silly phrases that I use. So we went to this unit. Um, you have to know your equipment, know the the the environment know the situation right? So I know that this particular restaurant gets a lot of sand. Blowing sand is just a nightmare.
I've made lots of videos showing the sand here and I know there's a bunch of people out there that are gonna say why aren't you using totally enclosed contactors? Why aren't you using? You know this particular thing. um, relays different stuff I Have yet to find a cost efficient replacement for a standard contactor like this. You got to understand these contactors. You know they cost the customer like anywhere from 40 to 60 bucks.
Okay, um, and if I was to sell them a totally enclosed relay, the relays that I found either can't handle the current or there is some, but they're stupid expensive and it just doesn't. It's not justified for the customer of course. I give them the options, right, but it just there's nothing out there that I've found that can replace a standard contactor. Handle the duty cycle that we have.
handle the inrush current. Um, you know, handle the high temps I Just have yet to find something. If you guys have a solution for me, shoot, shoot me an email. I'll check it out right? But I've gotten lots of people shooting me all kinds of different stuff saying this is what you should be using and they're just not cost effective.
or the size is too big or you know there's a lot of variables. Um, you know I can't carry a two thousand dollar contactor on my truck I can't put those on all my employees trucks. It just doesn't make economical sense for me. Okay, and I have to be able to pick them up, right? this? these contactors in this unit I Can go get them.
You know I could just run to the supply house and pick them up. So it's just one of those things. But we found that the circuit breaker was full of sand, which is just horrible, right? I Told him to get an electrician to change. It seems like we have to change those every year too. We found that there was a high temperature situation in the middle terminal of that contactor, potentially causing a problem and I was very suspect of the condenser fan motors now. I don't know what caused the breaker to trip. it was tripped when I got there. Okay, it didn't seem like it, but it was and then it wouldn't reset I don't know what caused that.
that's why I took all this time and went through everything and I still don't know if I solved the problem. Okay, uh, you know? who knows. It's one of those things where you just have to do your best. You have to look at everything and you have to evaluate the system as best as possible within reason, right? I can't be up on that roof for nine hours watching that system.
It's just too hot I can only do so much so I change the hot ticket items I changed the contactor which I could see with the thermal imaging camera I changed the condenser fan motors which you know they weren't bad. they were running. they were running under current but I started to notice the longer they ran the higher the current went and I just know that we have a lot of failures with those condenser fan motors so I changed them. Okay, customer's okay with it of course.
I discuss everything with them. Just got to use your brain. try to be as efficient as possible. Okay, have a game plan when you go on the roof, especially when it's these high temperature situations.
You really got to be on your A game. You can't go up there and be like huh and just stare and think. and you know and just take your time. You got to be efficient every time I Went downstairs I took something with me every time I went came back upstairs I tried to be as efficient.
What am I going to need next? How many parts am I going to need? Bring it up! You know that kind of stuff right? So always try to be efficient I Really appreciate you guys making it to the end of video. Thank you so very much! Uh, leave me some feedback down in the YouTube comments. Let me know what you think. If you're interested in supporting the channel, there's a couple different methods.
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and yes, I do buy my own tools they are not gifted to me. Okay I Don't take free tools from people usually I have in the past but it's just not my thing I don't like it because I like to be honest and not have anything to owe to people right? I like to be able to say what I truly feel about stuff so if you see me using my tools and my videos and I don't tell you it was given to me I paid for it Okay, but go to Truetechtools.com if you like what they have. If you find a tool that you want I have an offer code. big picture One word: if you use that offer code you get an eight percent discount on majority of the items on their website and I get a small commission. Another great way to help support the channel. Doesn't cost you anything extra so check it out Truetechtools.com again! Thank you so very much I really do appreciate you and we will catch you on the next one.
a bit funny that the thermometer in the cooler is still in its original packaging and not even screwed or hung in place properly 🤣🤣 Are you in Kanata ?
Gone have to order them special breakers with the built in sand filters lol .
Ha, in WA State we have moss in the breakers.
hyperthermia, its like having fever. Service area Barrhaven??
should add blow out panel to maintenance list on P.M.
Are IP ratings not a thing in North America? IEC 60529?
With these temperatures, make sure you drink plenty of water and take frequent breaks to avoid heat stroke. I hear those are not fun.
Sodas, no matter what the type, ARE hydrating. Yes, if you're not used to it, caffeine has a mild diuretic effect, but that actually wears off within 2 weeks. If you HAVE water or <random sports drink>, use it, of course, but if what you have is a soda? Drink it. It's better than not drinking because you think you have to have water.
As for the 40% humidity? That's what I'm trying to keep my garage down to. Outside is regularly 88-95% this time of year, and right now, in the heat wave with no rain, is 54%. (Houston) Service area Nepean??
Video title: "DID I EVER TELL YOU I HATE SAND?"
me: "It's coarse and gets everywhere"
My body has problems with temperature regulation and I suffer at much lower temperatures. Other that drinking water, I carry a water sprayer with me to spray my clothes for evaporative cooling which works very well for me.
I'm glad you ran over the unit with a thermal imaging camera. I'm wondering if that contactor that was replaced was causing a phase to intermittently drop either entirely or enough to cause a current increase on other phases that caused the breaker to trip or a thermal overload condition.
Regarding longevity, have you considered mounting contactors and control gear in sealed enclosures as an alternative to a sealed contactor? It could work out a lot more cost-effective in a number of ways. For example, a company called Delvalle here in Europe makes an electrical enclosure for extreme temperature conditions (-60 to +250 deg C). They call it the 'Tardigrado Series'. There is a company called Polycase in the US makes weatherproof and watertight enclosures, including ones that are NEMA-rated.
do you know these cheap massage guns? for around 20 bucks? you should get one, it releases sand like a charm, used one in a similar situation and a collegue told me to use one. my first thought was: what the heck? but you should give it a try.
What thermal camera do you use ?
That thermal camera save your ass, based on your testing, if I didn't see that with the thermal camera , I wouldn't have changed the contactor, that happened to me many many times, expensive as it was, the thermal camera probably paid off in the first 6 months, thanks for sharing! Are you in Barrhaven ?
What kind of clothes you use to handle that heat. ?? Thank you for the answer sir. Service area Ottawa??
WHY DONT YOU USE THERE WATER ON THE ROOF AND PUT A VEREY FINE SPRAY IN THE PLACE YOU ARE WORKING SO IT COOLS YOU DOWN . GOT TO WORK SMART BRO .
IF ITS GOING TO HAVE TO WORK IN SANDY PLACES CANT YOU STICK A VACUUM RELAY IN THERE OR IS IT TO EXPENSIVE.
I CAN SEE YOU ARE A DELICATE FLOWER . I CAN HELP YOU OVER COME YOUR HATE OF SAND. WE DO A WHOLE WEEKS TREATMENT. WE BUREY YOU UP TO YOUR NECK . AND LET THE SAND GET TO OVER A 100 C . AND ARFTER A WEEK OF THAT YOU WILL BE FULLY CURED . THE SAND WONT BOTHER YOU ENEY MORE . CHEEP RATES FOR YOU . 😊😊😊😊 . NOW GET YOUR ARSE BACK TO WORK.
You literally got perfect readings on those motors lol then say they spiked so you want to replace them. Where footage of the high reading? To be fair I’m not out in the desert but one year on a motor seems like a trash product.
When will we get a visual on the new Appion cct14 flow control valves. I'm trying to find I good option to pull a fast vacuum on these core max fittings.
I usually braze in new access port stems to pull a fast vaccum.
Will these flow valves be the answer for fast vaccum???
I have slowly implementing thermal imaging into my diagnosis and I appreciate you demonstrating effective use of thermal imaging. I've mostly used it to find hot spots, or points of loss on the supply side. I'm going to start using them when checking my contactors and motors as well. Great video, and I appreciate the time you take to show us your approach.
What you describe as "Jelly Brain" sounds a lot like the first stages of Heat Exhaustion…
And that is just one very short step away from Heat Stroke and a trip to the Emergency Room…
You were wise to get off the roof and start drinking more water than you normally do…
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
Almost seems like the breaker box could do with its own enclosure. I have seen them on rooftops in grit/sandy areas and in hurricane prone ares to help keep debris out.
"Contamination" comes in many forms, regarding circuit panel boards & the equipment inside – paint overspray, ceiling texture, sawdust on the interior; fine sand outside is his gemlin. Service area Orleans??
Those 9721 motors are rated for 40C ambient. Maximum ambient temperature 104F. They are designed as evaporator fan motor replacements. With 140 deg. F air over they will fail prematurely.
I'm not in the HVAC industry in fact I'm very much mechanically DECLINED lol but I'm very glad I found your channel because your approach to problem solving and stressing keep your eye on the big picture has helped me at my job thank you 🙂
very likely the contactor was the issue, at some point it surely dropped a phase on pull in arcing and poof went the breaker from the single phase.
it's also likely the condenser fans didn't run when that happened or low voltage/slow trying to be the compressor return path for the dropped leg. I'm assuming they're single phase and wired off the left two contacts which are also the most cooked. probably caused by back EMF from them arc flashing on break and higher peaks on pull-in. ahh the joys of electrical 🥳🤯
Can try to use soft start. They are not too expensive.
Is there a reason (other than it might not generally be needed in a non-extreme environments) the electrical stuff isn't put into IP-rated boxes? I keep seeing these same problems with contactors and breakers and feel like if they weren't exposed to the elements it would just not happen.
Did you got something on your nose ?
It is looking more bent as before.
Put the contactor in an ip box….
Single phasing could have happened with the contactor, but also could have happened with the sand filled breaker. Single phasing while running could have current overloaded everything up to the compressor coils, and if the breaker is damaged, it could have allowed higher than rated currents.
If it was me i would replace the breaker as well. If possible replace the whole crappy breaker box with a more dust resistant model.
You might add a FLIR check of the breaker box to your checklists.
USE THE FORCE CHRIS!
Edit: Just heard you say the customer being advised to replace breakers.
About 35 years ago I was hired to help install a 5 meter microwave dish on a tar and gravel roof. Lasted all of two afternoon hours in North Texas summer heat. Then had to go inside for over an hour to recover. Don't know how you survive your job in the summer.
From an engineers standpoint I can see where sand in a circuit breaker could block air circulation, possibly causing the temperature of the bimetal spring to rise, resulting in a false trip due to overheating…just a thought. This led me to my suggestion of thermal imaging the breakers as well as contactors.
Sorry for the long winded comment…
Awesome video we have high humdidy
Seems like these areas need better enclosures for the electric. I doubt they make anything like that though.
Glad to learn this very cool I do not have this problem in Tennessee no sand here
I’m surprised that the contactor didn’t weld itself closed. Are you in Nepean ?
Must be in West Texas. We have plenty of read sandy dirt around here. The dust into everything.
Always Big picture diagnosis.
Good job.
I learned a lot from your videos.
I think the compressor tried to crank on two-phases (contactor erratic failure) thus it may have exceeded the time-current threshold of the breaker
I am 39 am i too old to start this trade?
I live in MN and it gets hot here and the humidity makes it even harder to cool. 90 in July here can be brutal. In Arizona that's a beautiful day. But over 100F, it doesn't matter, it's just plain hot.
I worked in AZ and CA on RTU's for a couple spring/summers. Yeah, it was crazy hot sometimes, and I learned to get a hat with a neck covering and went down and sat in the store every hour or so and refilled my little water bottle. Really tanked my efficiency but I didn't want to die up there.
That's crazy you have to replace CU fan motors so often. Ours get some corrosion from the rain/humidity but they still seem to last several years.
You know its going to be a rough day when its already 110 at 11am
I respect you for the temperatures you have to endure. When it hits a mere 25 degrees celsius (77 fahrenheit) here in the UK I'm struggling, and to think that's sometimes half what you're working in!
Bananas 🍌 and applesauce packets are great for replenishing electrolytes. You have to replace what you’re sweating out.