I woke up to an error on my Carrier Infinity system, this video shows how to diagnose an ECM motor 3.0 as well as some common things to look for on ECM motors.
Variable Speed Motor Diagnosis with The Genteq TecInspect is also shown.
Carrier: https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/us/
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes
and find our handy calculators at https://www.hvacrschool.com/
Variable Speed Motor Diagnosis with The Genteq TecInspect is also shown.
Carrier: https://www.carrier.com/carrier/en/us/
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes
and find our handy calculators at https://www.hvacrschool.com/
I am home today because we just had the the new baby, so I'm trying to stay home as much as possible for the next few days and I wake up and I've got this error: 41 blower motor fault and 44. Failure to communicate with the blower so sounds like something with the ECM blower motor. I'm gon na go ahead and investigate see what we can find all right. So here's my air handler yeah comm light is on her status.
Light is blinking, 1, 2, 3, 4, slow, blinks, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ok, so 4, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4. So 44 is what is blinking all right, that's giving me a 44 and then I've got the constant flash on my motor here, but nothing's happening. So now, at least I know all my codes, so I'm gon na go ahead and reset power real, quick and see. If that changes anything before I go any further into diagnosing yeah.
Well, I have power off and on these I always leave power off for at least 30 seconds or so just so that way. There's you know any capacitors in you to discharge or whatever I'm gon na just check my plugs and make sure everything looks good on these make sure I don't have any poor connections or any signs of arcing or anything. That's my high voltage plug right there, which is just 240 volts coming in, make sure they get it back in real nice and snug, and this is my communication plug here. If there was any issues there now, I just check that just feel the blower to make sure that it's not stuck or anything that spins okay, I'm not doing any bearing play on the end.
Nothing weird there. With these, you always check your 4 pin connectors to make sure they're. Abcd connections make sure those are snug. That looks good look at the board for any signs of anything abnormal.
Don't see anything weird all right, so we're gon na go ahead and kick the power back on, see Toad's, it's fun for a little bit and then it stopped you just not have a call. A lot of times, that's what it does. Is it just you know it spins one direction in any other direction, just to see which direction it has torque to kind of prove that it's functioning properly with the blower wheels intact right now, my flashing lights went away. So, let's just see and what happens once Agosta time delay, I forced it in operation using the thermostat and it's still not communicating now.
One interesting thing is, I didn't, have a proper drip loop on it as much as I preached about it. Another interesting thing is, is I did a video last night and I was trying to show some maximum air flow, and so I had set the thing up for maximum air flow, and then I forgot to set it back, but I mean you're not still within the Range of operation of this unit run, it was running a little higher static pressure. Point seven, something like that. But then this morning I wake up, and I have that communication fault.
So that kind of tells me the odds are that in the process of this thing running up to higher rpm something failed inside this motor module. That's definitely my suspicion at this point. Alright, so here is the error: we're getting in the main screen, blower motor fault, so we're gon na go ahead and remove the blower. So that way we can separate the blower module from the motor we've already confirmed that it will spin up initially when it starts up. So when you power up the high voltage, it will run, but then it just shuts back off. It's not communicating through the actual communications, pull it off, disconnect it and we're also gon na we're gon na OMAP the motor. Just because that's a process that you manufacture says they want you to follow the check the motor against the module. But this at this point, I'm as confident as I can be that it that it is the actual module I've checked.
All the visual connections in this particular case we're communicating with the indoor board, so the thermostats communicating with the board it's just that the board isn't communicating with the blower all right. So I've got my GP six and one here, you're gon na notice that I don't use a nut driver very often, and certainly for those of you who are doing a lot of production in the field. You may want to use a nut driver, but it's really important that you don't strip out screws, so I use just to just a simple quarter inch hand nut driver just to make sure that I'm not gon na ruin any threads. Again.
That's just me, but I would rather do things just to touch slower and not ruin threads, especially not a fan of impacts. When it comes to this sort of thing, I mean they certainly have their place, so that is a motor module, and this is what we call potted motor module because they actually have this in a rubber latex rubber. Looking stuff, I don't know if it is latex rubber, but that actually sits inside this, a module that keeps it from getting moisture in it, which is a nice feature, helps them to last a little bit longer. The first thing, I'm always doing when I look at any of these things, is I'm just looking at anything that looks weird anything abnormal melted burned.
In this case, we know that the motor was running when it would start up, and I didn't feel any bearing clay. There was nothing abnormal going on there, so I'm just gon na take a quick look at the windings to make sure there's nothing abnormal visually in here I don't smell anything abnormal. I'm one thing, that's kind of neat about this motor and you can see in here. It's got a rotor, but then the rotor has permanent magnets attached to it.
They see these permanent magnets actually attached to the rotor itself. That's part of what makes an ECM motor and ECM motor and that's how it's able to sense its position, because you have this magnetic force, that's being generated from the rotor itself, and it also doesn't require an energizing current, which makes it a little more efficient. But everything looks looks pretty good inside here, I'm not seeing anything, especially abnormal, so we're gon na go ahead and ohm it out just to make sure, but it looks like we're looking at a motor module alright, so I went ahead and pulled the old module out, Bringing it to the shop because we had someone pick up one from the local supply house and I'm gon na go ahead and swap it out and bring it home and install it ECM, 3.0 motor. Of course, this one actually doesn't say you see him. 3.0. The old one does, but you see right here, it says ECM 3.0 horsepower. We are good to go whenever working with any sort of variable frequency drive, which is what an ECM motor module is. You always want to make sure that you leave it disconnected from high voltage for five minutes at least, and it varies unit to unit.
But you want to make sure that it's been disconnected for a while before you go and they're touching anything. So you don't get a shock go ahead and just just as a good practice we're gon na do the test that you would do on the motor itself. Now this is a three-phase motor, which means all the windings should read, essentially identical home readings to each other. So we're gon na check each winding to the other, each other winding.
First, ten point: five, ten point: five ten point: four Tim yeah right in there all right right right, all pretty much the same there we go all right now we're gon na check each winding to ground. Now again, that's not the issue that we're having with this unit. So I would be very surprised if we would find anything significant around so treating in the microfarad scale or actually in the nanofarad scale. But let's change it to just ohms.
It's gon na go to the mega ohm scale. We got nothing, so the motor spins well has no shows. No signs of overheating shows no significant bearing play. I'm not seeing any rotor damage and the winding zoom out properly to each other and the ground.
We have no path to ground, so I feel good about going ahead and installing our motor module all right. We kicked on we're communicating we're running and I'm gon na go and put the panels on leave that in 770 three inside there. So I can monitor the amp draw as it runs, but I wasn't like we're in good shape. So now we've got it running 770 3 is inside the cabinet and so we're measuring from the outside and we're just gon na monitor.
As it comes up to speed. I'm gon na go downstairs and take a look at the thermostat, make sure we don't have any codes or anything abnormal go in there. I've just got one screw in a panel just kind of holding it on, but I think we're I think, we're good to go. Alright, so now just to test it out up at full speed, we're gon na put it in service mode, hold down the service mode icon for an extended period of time until it turns green, which always seems like an eternity when I'm in the process of doing It yeah turn green and we're gon na go to checkout, going to go to cooling right up to stage 5 for 10 minutes. So we're running on the 5th stage of my carrier. Vna 8 1202 CFM point for static pressure. Everything is looking good: let's go up and check our amperage on our blower at full speed. Alright, so our blower is drawing 2.1 amps at full load point for static and we are rated 4.5 on this one on the beta tag.
Full load amps is 4.3. So all this all as well, all's well that ends well, alright, so another tool that I didn't show initially in the video that I just want to make sure that we cover is the tech inspect by Gen tech. You can find out more at the dealer toolbox. Comm and this tool is the latest version of a series of tools that have been out for testing ECM motors and it's very, very simple.
You just take the low voltage section, so not the high voltage but the actual control inputs from the motor you disconnect them. You connect these plugs in and then you connect these two alligator jaws to 24 volts. The biggest challenge with these is is that there's sometimes it's sometimes pretty difficult to find a good, solid spot to connect constant 24, especially on modern communicating systems. My infinity system is no exception to that.
When you connect 24 volts. This will light up the biggest mistake I see Tech's make because they have these big jaws as they to connect it to 240 or 120, and then they fry their motor and that's a bummer. So one thing you can do is you can use a 9-volt battery this used to be kind of standard practice. Recently Gentek is saying 24 volts only and I'm going to show you a little trick here.
It does definitely work, but you need to make sure that you connect the right polarity. So if you connect the blue to negative side and the black to the positive side, because this is an LED, it won't light up. But if you connect the black to the negative side and the blue to the positive side say we got ourselves our green light and I have confirmed that this does work. But I'll show you real quick just so you can be 100 % sure and in my system this was perfect because in my particular case, there's no good place to connect the 24, these two 24 without disconnecting stuff and making it a much more difficult job than It needs to be now I'm gon na do this test after I've already installed the new module.
I mean it's functioning because I didn't need this tool in order to diagnose and show this, but I just want to show you how to do it in case. You do have this tool disconnect. Is you don't want to be messing around with plugs on these? I've already got it disconnected here. So this is the regular communications plug here.
This is like I mentioned before and ECM 3.0. So now I'm gon na take this and it. This is one thing that a lot of people don't mention about doing YouTube. Videos is they're doing things one-handed.
It makes it a lot more difficult there we go so we're connected in that's in snug. Again, you can see that blowers off make sure that this switch starts in the off position off position. Alright, alright, so we got the black and blue leads and, like I mentioned, the blue needs to go on the positive just a smaller one, in the black on the larger one, the black one tends to alright. So we get we get the black now on the negative side just barely on there, and then the blue will stay on the positive side, so I'll, usually just kind of hold it so that weight doesn't slide off. I know it seems like a pain in the butt but still easier than the other option. I'm just kind of gon na hold it, so it doesn't slide off, got my green light. There put the power on with it off, so we can make sure that it doesn't run and it is not running see the light from my PCO up above showing that it's not running and now we're gon na flip this on so now we know that the Motor and module are both functional on this unit. Again, of course, they are because I just replaced them, but that's a good diagnostic test to prove that you don't have a problem at the motor and module.
So if it wasn't working, then you did this and it did work, and that tells you that it's in the harness or the control board feeding that does you it's either in the harness or the control board, feeding it. It wasn't running. You connect this flip it on, and then it does run. This just basically proves that the motor and module are both working.
They aren't because I just replaced them.
guess who…. i just got the error 44 msg. cycled breakers, no change. all wiring looks good, nothing blocked, i suspect it's the control module inside the motor itself. bryant evo 5T, every year there's a major failure with this thing, not too happy.
I'm so Dizzy watching this, my god man please hold the camera still and show some detail. But anyway, thanks for the effort.
I always hand screw the mounting screw in so i know they are not cross threading. Then drill and lightly torque. Not impact. Then usually I will use a nut driver to hand snug them all up. Works good for me
Hello Brian,
Thanks for another great video.
Carrier has a very good troubleshooting guide for their various units. The short and sweet of it is, you find the fault code then using the troubleshooting guide, you start a series of electrical tests. Each test ends with did you measure “ whatever” voltage their looking for. Yes/ no
If yes you follow that path of tests, likewise if the answer is no, you follow that pathway.
No matter it always takes you to a definitive conclusion, change ……
whatever.
For less experienced techs, this avoids a lot of mis- diagnosis.
Those end bells/ modules were redesigned around 2006-09. The high failure rate was found to be caused by the computer trying to maintain the 350/400 CFM per ton when up against poor duct systems that already had excessive static.
Thus they redesigned the electronics to “limit” the RPMs so they wouldn’t burn out.
Power spikes and voltage surges are still a problem of our aging power grid and thus contributes to failures too. Are you in Nepean ?
Found a snake wrapped around the fan outside after getting error code 44. Removed the snake changed the filters and reset breaker. Still 44 cannot connect to blower. Fan setting doesn’t work either. My unit is two months old.
smoke weed
Why did it fail ? These high end carriers seem to be beleaguered.
Mass produced American junk better perform. Those motors don’t exactly look like precision units.
Ill be some pissed if I have any faults in the next 20 fkn years. For what they charge these better be like Honda’s.
I don't recommend this kind of units to any customer. Control board is over $1000 and a thermostat is over $500. You may saved some money on electricity, but the parts cost more and it takes more time for a HVAC technician to do diagnosis (which means more repair cost). Keep it simple, stupid manufacturer
Can you discuss what a bad idea these ECM motors are? Some energy savings versus absurd replacement costs due to high failure rates. $800 for a new one! How about a video on how to convert to an PSC motor? Sorry my motor ECM failed and I'm really angry with this type of motor. Service area Barrhaven??
Is it possible to override the airflow calculations made by the carrier infinity software? I have a Carrier 3 ton heat pump model 25HNB936A connected to a FE4ANB006 fan coil. I have a single zone duct system. My airflow assessment calculates 1050 cfm @.7" sp. I have the airflow setting in the thermostat set at MAX. When set in the automatic mode and fan speed on high, airflow is low compared to the airflow when I turn the system off and run the fan only. The house is comfortable but would prefer more airflow when the system is set in AUTO
Hi can you tell me what the dip switches should be at on a new carrier 59TP6 100k BTU furnace I have a ecobee and my installer just left it at the factory positions and told me to leave fan on all the time.Thank you Are you in Orleans ?
The cost of the module has just voided any savings provided by the ECM motor.
So much for costly federal registrations. Service area Kanata??
ECM= electrically crappy motor
Thanks for posting. I wanted to point out how green your motor connector looked. I had one that actually fell apart from corrosion it was so bad. Might want to give the motor connectors a closer look.
Those 9 volt batteries connect together easily for 18v. Use a junked 9v battery clip cut in half to complete the ckt
Brian thanks for sharing what you know and how you explain Have a Blessed day!
Clip 3 9volt batterys together and you get a proper 24 volt signal ( 27 v ) I love my tech mate pro
As I go through all your videos I have noticed that you could do voice overs for Ray Liotta (Good Fellas) as a backup plan if the HVACR stuff ever bottoms out.
I find ecm motors go bad constantly it’s hard to tell how long they will last but 85% of them will go bad sooner than later and for some reason the other 15% never fail we put serge protectors in the line voltage supply
Even the expert in the field can't figures out on how to prevent ecm cause to fail. Wot a bummer.
Great video and it got me to the ECM…which was not even on my radar.
I have a question, in your situation…note: I have the old Inifinty system with the white box of PITA…my board appears to be identical to yours.
My board to motor output is 12.6VDC as was yours, however my yellow LED by the connector is NOT on like yours is in the video. SInce the output is still there, this still points to the ECM, correct? Or am I dealing with a board issue?
I am in the process of checking the motor now. Similarly, my cage fan turns well and does not show any issues of a mechanical defect.
Thank you in advance!
Mike
So I have Carrier 2.5 ecm that I salvaged from a unit that had a coil go bad. I want to use it for something else but after hours of looking at you tube I can’t get the wiring for it to start. I have the power plug wired to 120 and the voltage is good at motor. Safety ground in place. Yellow jumper in place on this plug as needed for 120v. I have a 24v AC transformer supplying 26v AC. I read dozens of posts on how to wire this to the other plug but none work. My speed tap plug is a 16 connector with only 4 wires in it. R,Y, B,and G. If looking from wire side of this adapter with the adapter snap up and reading left to right and top to bottom, the R is in position 2, the G is position 8, the Y position 9, and B position 15. I am not sure where the 24v common goes? Which of the four wires are speed taps? And after this video using 9 V battery was I misled into using AC for control and should be using DC? Appreciate help as will my dogs with their new ventilation!
I recommend setting these motors in the AUTO mode to my customers. Question: when a profile is not used and the thermostat is in manual mode, does the blower operate in the AUTO mode regardless of the profile setting?
Carrier thinks their shit is gold… I mean if your not a carrier dealer they really stick it to you… I got quoted 900 for a damn ecm motor and module for a 4 ton 2 stage gas furnace, albeit the motor is a 1 h.p. motor with the damn dog ear bracket wielded to the motor… but still the damn furnace is cheaper than that
What voltage should be at blower when diagnosing module?
I am disappointed you did not explain how to test the module. You assumed it was bad because the motor tested OK. I wanted to know how to test the module in case there might be something wrong with the board instead.
ECM motors suck
How long did that thing last? Seems not very long. Also, what was the cost of the driver module? Are you in Ottawa ?
Just curious how yall break the low voltage from your float switch on your communicating systems, are carrier rep says to run the transformer thru the switch then back to the board.
ecm motors one word crap
Cool didn’t give that a thought but it makes sense.👍 Service area Nepean??
Shorted winding to winding would cause it to turn hard.
I would not have touched anything until I cycled it at least once.👍