Bryan shares advice on how to Stop Drain Snot.
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Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes
and find our handy calculators at https://www.hvacrschool.com/
In this video we're going to talk about a common and emerging problem, meaning it's getting worse, and that is the issue of elephants, not that's what i hear a lot of people call it. I think, generally speaking, what we're seeing that's increasing is called bacterial zooglia. I think that's how you say it zuglia. You can look it up, there's all sorts of papers on bacterial zooglia what seems to be happening and a lot of technicians have observed.
This is, as we've gone, to all aluminum coils. We see more of this growth happening rapidly in drain pans and in drain lines and condensate drains. Now we've seen algae growth, we've seen you know, different types of gelatinous biofilms and those are fancy names for gunk that builds up in drain lines and condensate pans. We've seen that forever, but what's unique about this new bacterial zuglia is that it happens really fast and it will completely block a condensate drain, pan or drain line and what seems to be happening is aluminum coils, don't have obviously copper in them and copper acted as An antibacterial, that's undisputed, copper has antibacterial antiviral and anti-fungal properties, as does silver, several metals.
Do they produce ions and those ions help prevent the growth of certain bacterias viruses and funguses. Now, i'm not a microbiologist, so i'm not going to pretend that i know you know everything that it prevents and the levels to which it does, but in the field we're tasked with solving this problem, and so what are some things that you can do to solve? It well first off on new equipment. There are cases where this isn't actually the bacterial zuglia. It can actually be oil that is used in order to create the coil it can be on the coil.
Sometimes that runs down into the drain pan and that creates kind of a white uh paste or film, and so that's not the same thing. If you have a brand new system where you do have oil residue present, it's a good idea to do a really thorough cleaning on that evaporator coil. First, we especially seem to see this on rooftop package units, that's something that we've noticed a few times, but in residential applications, where you have these aluminum evaporator coils, where it happens quickly. The first thing you can do is source control, meaning that the less organic material that makes it onto the evaporator coil the less of this bacteria you're going to have, because the bacteria has to feed on something.
So starting with using things like good. You know maybe merv 11 style 4-inch media filters, making sure that everything is well sealed where the media filter goes in if you're using filter back returns. You know taping the filters in place with masking tape to make sure there's not bypass around anything. You can do to reduce the amount of bypass, forcing everything through a good quality, properly sized filter and we've talked many times that you have to control for pressure drop across the filter.
So it's not like you can just put in a merv 11 filter and call it good without doing testing. But a big part of what you can do is control the source. Now things like uv lights, bipolar those could potentially help. Now again, i haven't seen consistent results with this because it doesn't happen in all cases. We'll have many installs where we installed aluminum coils and it doesn't happen and then it just seems like in some places it has a particular bacteria in the air that reacts and then creates this. This gooey snot, but it's undisputed, that if we can keep less stuff on the coil and if we can kill the bacteria which we should be able to do with a uv light in close proximity to the coil properly installed bipolar shows some promise. For example, bipolar works really well undisputedly in ice machines when ice machines are in something like a sandwich shop where there is a lot of yeast in the air that yeast gets in there and grows now again. Not all of these bacterias and funguses are the same, but we do know that in those applications where you have this nice, controlled environment bipolar can help.
Bipolar may be something to look into if you have extreme cases, um something that we've been practicing. Whenever we have mild cases, is we've been using small pieces of copper tubing smashed flat, so you take some 3 8 or even quarter inch, copper off of a ductless line set and you smash it flat, and you lay that in the drain pan. This has especially been helpful with ductless systems that have been having regular problems and then some guys have been taking 15 silver rods, snipping a little piece of that and putting it in there as well. So now you're, adding some silver and you're, adding some copper.
It will last a really long time and it can prevent some of that growth. It stands to reason that it would now some people think that that snake oil - it really isn't. We know that copper and silver do create ions that can inhibit the growth of bacteria fungus and viruses. So it stands to reason that that's not a bad idea, especially in coils.
Now, where we've removed the copper equation before we had the copper all throughout the coil, and so that served to stem the tide and again i'm going based on um there. Isn't a holistic study been done on this, that i've been able to read a lot of information from a lot of different sources, and this is what i'm sharing with you and a couple products that i really like that i talk about. A lot are the pan and drain spray and evap plus from refrigeration technologies, because both of those products are very safe. They're food, safe, it's okay, to use them in cases like restaurants or grocery store cases.
They don't have strong odors and they are both enzyme-based, meaning that they break down over time the enzymes break down that biofilm or that organic material, and so we've had really good luck with that. I've used the pan and drain spray, especially in ductless drain pans cases where we're getting odors, as well as the evap plus or their evap cleaner. Now there are a lot of other products on the market. You feel free to try whatever works for you. Some of them are sprays. You have your traditional pan tabs or your pads that you can put in the drain pan the only thing i would caution you with anything that you're going to place in the drain pan, whether it's tabs pads pieces of copper whatever is make sure that it's not Going to actually inhibit the flow of water, either out of the channels underneath the drain pan or as it exits that drain pan into the primary drain, also make sure that you're not inhibiting a secondary drain and potentially preventing the condensate switch from doing its job. So there's some things you want to think about there, but those are sort of the tools in your toolbox again. Source control keep as much organic material off that evaporator coil in the first place.
Make sure that you can kind of distinguish between what we call elephants. Not this this bacterial zooglia, and maybe just some you know oil in the manufacturing process. Again, you still need to wash coils regularly and something like event plus works great for that. But then you may try some silver or copper and the drain pan and maybe even more extreme, a bipolar type system or uv lights in order to help prevent these issues again.
This is a battle that we haven't all won. We don't have a lot of problems with it in our market, we've had a few cases and we've been able to deal with it just through some of these little little tips that we've used. There are some people who have reported that none of this seems to be working, and so i'm not saying that this is a silver bullet. But if you did have a silver bullet, you could put it in the drain pan and that would help prevent the zuglia from growing and if nothing else, you learned a new word today.
Hopefully that's helpful. Alright, thanks for watching we'll catch you on the next one. You.
I’m back. Static pressure makes it a lot worse as well as you can’t pitch the whole way it Hass to be very aggressive pitch like half inch per foot. Also no standing water need to front pitch everything not to the point where it spills over the coil but no standing water in the coil pan. As well as maintenance every four months at least. Six months don’t cut it anymore. Well there you have it folks do UV lights in the air purification the good filters they barely work
Amazing talented actor. A great loss. Service area Orleans??
I am still waiting for some tabs. But for the moment, I gave my air conditioner a dose of mouthwash. That shrivelled up and killed any goo that I was not able to reach without having to disassemble the air conditioner. I just recalled that I also have a bottle of old copper pennies. Hmmm. Finally, a better place to put them.
I will use an electric Copperwire and Twist and Flat them they have More Surface Area
How about a condenation drain pan treatment pad?
I wonder how baking soda would help. Chemistry
There’s no study because they don’t want to class action lawsuit because they’re designing the coils like shit they already leak like a sieve let alone the callbacks for the drain lines and flood damage
The oil too, need to clean coil on new units or replacement coils , airflow pitch and source like he said . Duct clean and uvc light . We also see it on some copper coils too but not as bad. I’m sure Florida is the breeding grounds for the Zooglea. I did the copper thing it didn’t work that good I even tried brazing rods Service area Kanata??
Here in south Texas it has been a BAD year for backed-up drains and drain gunk.
Have been partial to getting the customer to add vinegar to the pan through the secondary (where I'll usually add a 90 and a cap) – will have to try the silver and copper trick on some aluminium coils.
I would throw some old penny’s in. My new AC is aluminum, so I’ll watch for it.
We see this every single day even hundreds of times a year and we’re in South Florida the AC runs year-round never stop we have three days of heat. Customers have to have clean ducts, pretty good filters changed often UVC light in every coil literally as well as Remi halo air purification. And we best go out every four months to do maintenance are we going to have issues still. Unbelievable been getting worse and worse. It is very rare to see it on the copper coil. Aluminum coils all day every day. I have some apartment complexes that I stack 20 blue tabs in the back of the coil every maintenance and hope they last a few weeks. We also install the time release drain strips they may be helping a little bit but it’s hard to say it never stops. We have to coil clean and acid clean drain lines constantly. The static pressure in the variable speed technology most likely doesn’t help. Thanks Jerry
I’ve read some places in Texas and in Florida where they are doing light coil cleans on every coil they install and on every new install and they have pretty much cut down dramatically on the that issue
"It's not a silver bullet, but if you DID have a silver bullet you could put it in the drain pan." – best quote.
Dame I’ve seen this twice in the field the senior tech thought it was oil mixing with water and condemned the coil
Maybe it’s because I live in the northeast. Never ever seen that.
I've had a few minnisplit that the exterior wall was sealed and the interior wall was not. With the entire space under the hood being under a negative pressure on hot days in the attic office the odor. Well let's say attic insulation. 2 years of complaints. It took me a couple of visits and the light bulb went off. Thumb gum smashed into the interior wall. Problem solved.
Short and sweet, I keep on learning.
Thank you very much.
For some reason I have the urge to blow my nose! Thanks. Good info!👍
Great video love it
just dont use aluminum, i would insist on copper especially on evaporators of indoor units of splits
The very first time I experienced this was back in late 1990’s and it was at my mom’s house. No problem for the first three years, then it showed up in the condensate pump, I had to clean out the pump monthly. The only thing that changed in the House was that she had to be on Oxygen, there was this large stationary oxygen machine that fed threw these long hoses for her to breath and still be able to be mobile in her home, this machine would run 24 hours a day. I don’t know If contributed to the problem but this was the only thing that changed in the household.
Yest? Are you in Kanata ?
They need to go back to using copper for these things! What are they saving, maybe 30 bucks in raw material in a system that costs thousands with that damn aluminum?
I see this in carrier air handlers in a left horizontal application all the time! Their aluminum slanted coil. clogs up the drain really bad. alls i could do isunclog the drain line and be on my merry way. I didn't how to prevent this until now.
Unfortunately there are too many outfits out there that don't care about the systems they install because "its just another service call later." Are you in Ottawa ?
What about using copper sulfate in drain pans and drain lines? Are you in Barrhaven ?
Is this subject brought up in the latest training classes?
Nice catch. who knew sil fos or 3/8 copper would deter this huge lunger.. and is it a problem only in the coastal areas?
Again as always..one step ahead of me . I will watch up here in Michigan and leave you feedback, the new Bryant rtu's have the micro channel alum coils and ecm blowers.
Never stop learning.
Dont smash your tube..leave tube round and lay so condensate can flow around and through.. Service area Nepean??
Your right commercial package units you see that a lot. That's good to know def have to try that trick out. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Use copper and silver nice presentation.
Great video!
Good video ! Good topic. I Personally have not seen this in the field yet ( California ) and i Hope i Dont. Thats some Nasty / Gross stuff ! Has any body taken it to a Lab yet to CONFIRM EXACTLY what it is ? IF We KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS , We should be able to kill it.
Take some of it , put in different jars. Expose to bleach , uv lights , copper , silver , pan tabs etc , make a video of progress. Would make for some good content. Like # 75.
I'll definitely keep the copper trick in mind. It makes sense 👍👍
For household applications, if I'm installing a brand new system, why wouldn't I just go with all-copper coils? I'm guessing cost savings?
Wasn’t zooglea a Ben Stiller movie?
My father back in the 60s , 70s and the 80s would throw a handful of 100% copper pennies. Copper pennies are no longer available. A couple years ago on my new installs I started experimenting with 100% copper sheet metal for gutter manufacturing laying in the bottom of The evaporator on new systems for a few select customers. I would experiment on my own systems but my filtering is so good I don’t need to clean evaporator for at least a decade and still have zero buildup no dust no residue. Are you in Orleans ?
Nice Bryan!
That was fun
Nice video and good knowledge and explanation