All right testing testing, we have some audio, but it's not as loud as i'd like it to be. What on here? Let's go testing testing testing. This is not working. I don't think that that audio is working.

You would think that it would show it right there. Let's go here, we're playing with the mic: how to in style, playlist, allow audio standard youtube. Uh cancel that, let's see, if anybody, okay, they can hear us, okay, cool right, one, all right, good gosh! You think i would have things better prepared, but i don't so welcome to the hvacr videos live stream. This is a little bit different um.

Can you guys hear that? Okay, we got to be careful, though i sorry to guys that's watching right now we got to be careful because we're getting feedback so we'll go ahead and watch that. Can you hear right now? Okay, cool, so we're going to try to make this work. So we are live from the 2022 hr expo right now, you're here and uh you could talk man. This thing is turned down this thing's destroyed, so we might as well is that good for you yeah just turn down a little more a little more.

Oh wait that one's not you, let's go right here, how's that yeah, it's way better, better, all right yeah! This is this - is just a dumpster fire. We're gon na figure this out all right i'll blow it up anymore, all right! There we go so um we're playing with things guys right now and i've got people staring at me. We're trying to figure this out so welcome to the hvac. Our videos live stream, like i said we're from the uh hr expo 2022, we're currently at the parker spoiling booth right now, which is awesome and uh.

We've got a cool guest or a few guests here. So i have compass to my right. Brett wetzel from the advanced refrigeration, podcast and uh we're gon na kind of talk about a few things. So we'll definitely look at the chat too, but you know i don't know if we're gon na get to as much of the chat as usual.

Definitely uh. If you guys have questions put them in caps, lock in the chat and uh, let me turn this off real, quick um. This is my mic. Actually, whatever we'll just go with this, so um, it's just not working out the way i want.

So we have a few things to talk about as usual, but i kind of wanted to get your brief, um ideas of what you think of the show. Now i know you brett kind of got to walk around a little bit more what'd. You think uh, and i didn't know like how crazy like how many contractors uh you know how many pieces of equipment there are, how many manufacturers - it's just it's amazing and everyone you talk to - is super knowledgeable about just about everything. You know what i mean yeah.

So like i'm, just i'm digging and i'm having a great time, that's awesome kevin. Have you had a chance to walk around the show? I walked around briefly for like an hour, so i didn't get. I just kind of you know trying to take it all in. I mean i need to stop too many booths.

I just there's just so much to look at. I mean you'd, be here for days yeah at least at least a full day. Just to try to you know, take it all in for sure yeah it's. It's kind of crazy and it is daunting.

So last uh expo in orlando was my first show and uh. I was blown away uh with how many people there there was. Definitely attendance is a little bit lower here, but it's not bad. I mean there's a lot of people rolling through this place right now, and there's too much to see way too much to see, there's no way you could do it in a day.

I had to make a list before i even came here like i've been planning out. I'm like okay first day, i'm going to go here here here here here and then i'm here you know what i mean yeah, you just have to do the pre-planning. Otherwise, you know you won't get to everything. You really want to see right so um.

While i have you guys here, i personally haven't really walked around the show that much i've just kind of been hanging out at the booth, doing uh booth, stuff and then going over to the refrigeration technologies, booth and that's been cool. But i plan on looking at the show a little bit more tomorrow, but um i figured i had you guys here. I wanted to kind of pick your brain on a few things and maybe we'll get a spoiled person, maybe tomorrow or something we can talk about. This too, but i want to kind of cover the the new awef standards, the annual walk energy efficiency factors that are being mandated by the department of energy.

Is that what it is yeah department of energy? So a real, quick, brief explanation: we have some new federal mandates that are now kind of targeting the refrigeration side, so we all know that we've had uh seer mandates for the residential side and the commercial air conditioning site. So it's inevitable. It's going to come to the refrigeration side um, you know we don't get political or anything. I mean it's here.

We have to deal with it. So how do we deal with these things? Um? I kind of wanted to kind of get your guys's perspective on what's happening here now. What i'm seeing is uh manufacturers are having to uh. You know meet the federal guidelines and they're having to make this equipment meet.

More energy mandates, be more energy efficient and each manufacturer has a different way of doing so. But there's a couple common things that they're doing putting in ecm fan motors two-speed fan motors on evaporators. Now i want to pick your guys's brain on that. So i deal with more of the light commercial stuff and the two-speed fan motors.

While i appreciate them, they do pose some problems when it comes to medium temperature and defrost issues, um yeah, it's an issue, it's an issue for sure, and you know i'm not for bypassing safeties and doing things, but also at the same time we have to get Equipment running and we have to have it operating um. I see manufacturers now on on walk-in freezers. I understand the two speed motors. Okay, it kind of makes sense, because those fan motors are turning off typically in the defrost, so it's okay, but on medium temperature refrigeration.

When we have a two speed fan motor, we have issues when it comes to defrost big time, because we are not moving that velocity across the coil enough to defrost or get rid of any frost um. You guys seeing that issue on your side too, absolutely yeah! Well, what really, really? What really has to come down to is talking with the manufacturers and basically asking them what is supposed to be the sequence of operation right, because that's what we're supposed to do with any piece of equipment that we're working on right? You go back to the manufacturer and find out. I mean if it was me i'd think that hey we're probably not moving enough air across during defrost if it is a medium temp system - and you know that maybe that's wrong for what they're trying to do. Maybe there's some kind of stipulation where the manufacturer will tell you to increase defrost length and until you actually, you know, talk to the manufacturer and find out how it was originally designed to work with off off-time defrost like we're discussing now yeah, you don't know so So you're saying that we actually have to read installation and operation manuals and follow up with the manufacturers and see how they want us to be installing this equipment.

Yeah yeah. I think. Oh, that's a problem. Man, that's a problem.

I know i i don't read good. So, let's talk about uh, the other elephant in the room uh when we're talking about uh, light commercial equipment right because you guys deal with the heavy stuff. You guys have capacity control on almost ever well, i'd, say majority of what you guys are working on right. So um, on the the light commercial side, you know we're dealing with um, you know uh five horsepower and under condensing units and uh, we typically don't have capacity control and we typically size our equipment for design temperatures which takes into account the highest ambient temperatures that We reach in that area, so um.

You know you tend to run a problem, because now that three horsepower condensing unit when it's 115 degrees or 110 degrees outside becomes massively oversized when the temperatures drop outside and we start to run into capacity issues because we're not changing the size of our evaporator right. Yeah, you know and uh what about our expansion valves. Those are problematic too, if we don't size accordingly. Well, you know because of the low ambient.

What happens right? Your discharge pressure goes down. Inevitably, your suction pressure goes down. When that happens, you know you change the design of how the thing was supposed to run. Typically, you know on commercial refrigeration, as you know, it's usually at eight to ten degree td across the evaporator right, if you're not maintaining that eight to ten degree td, what it was originally designed for you're, basically now changing the size of the evaporator.

So, basically, if you go from a 10 degree td to a 20 degree, td, you've now doubled the size of that uh. You know that that evaporator, the problem lies, is that if the expansion device, whether it be electronic expansion valve balance, port expansion valve is not wide enough for capacity you're going to end up starving, not inevitably, because you don't have enough liquid, it's just because the expansion Valve at that point is not big enough, yeah and so, let's add another element into here as part of the new awf requirements. Majority of the manufacturers out there are installing well there's a couple different ways. Some of them - i don't know if you guys have seen it but on some of the the lower end units they actually add.

A sub cooling circuit to the condenser so comes out goes through. The receiver goes back into the condenser added sub cooling loop going out um. I typically see that uh. Well, no.

I've seen that on systems with head pressure, control valves too, ironically enough, you actually have measurable sub cooling on those systems too, which you haven't seen in a long time on refrigeration, we really don't see a good sub coin number any higher than five degrees. Typically yeah. Usually two to three upwards of five and then that that extra pass like that, you know heat craft or bone puts in is typically it gives you about 10 degrees of sub cooling. And it's basically, like you said it coming right out right out of the receiver through the sight glass through that last sub cooling loop and you know just to ensure that you have a full full combo liquid.

But you know probably with the awef stuff as well. It's probably there to give you that additional sub cooling so that, when your pressure drop, does get that low, it might offset it a little bit with sub cooling, the the liquid a little bit more than what it typically would. If it would just come out of the receiver yeah and then we uh, you know they're, adding new head pressure, control valves in there uh most of the stuff that i'm dealing with is an lac valve or an oroa. I know you guys deal with bigger versions of those, but on the lac valves, i'm typically seeing about a hundred.

I think it's like 110 psi bypass on a low temp and i'm typically seeing about 150 psi bypass. What's interesting, though, is i guess, they're rating the condensing units for refrigerants, but it in my head, it's still kind of hard for me to remember that they're not intending for this, this new unit to work on 22 or something like that, but seeing those lower condensing Uh, i'm sorry bypass pressures on those head pressure. Control valves, um can add to other problems that we've bret and i've kind of discussed in depth, and i've actually ran into some problems with this because um, you guys have a term that you call it floating the head pressure down, basically lowering the head pressure. Lowering the liquid temperature right or condensing temperature - i guess i should say yeah um, but we start to see issues and where we really want to discuss is with the uh equipment replacement.

So let's say: you're a restaurant guy right, you're out working on a walk-in cooler. You have a bad compressor and you might find it practical to go ahead and replace the condensing unit instead of just changing a compressor. So you go to the supply house. You buy a new aoef, compliant which, honestly too, i'm going to say that most supply houses don't even know anything about awef and if you call them to order a condensing unit, they just give you something: i'm not necessarily blaming them.

But there's a big communication error here where supply houses you know, should be kind of educating some of these guys. But i guess it's hard for supply houses to find techs that can educate people, but if you buy an off-the-shelf condensing unit, throw it on an existing system. Worst-Case scenario with a non-balanced port expansion valve, don't do anything to the expansion valve and let's say that suspension valve wasn't really sized correctly. In the first place you potentially are going to run into, and i'm sure some of you people out there watching this are going to run into some issues come winter time with uh.

You know that head pressure being too low, causing issues with the expansion valve um and what what is it about that? That's like what is it about the i'm losing my train of thought here right now, but what is it that's causing that issue like so okay, when you lose that pressure drop across that valve, it de-rates the tonnage of the valve okay, so you you no longer Have that pres that pressure drop across here there used to be this whole rule of thumb of 100 pounds? I mean it's kind of a it's, it's a rule of thumb like sporeland actually rates. You know. If you look at the expansion valve catalog, they actually rate the pressure drop. You know, there's a multiplier in there.

You multiply or tons by that and, as you decrease the pressure drop, it is going to derate the valve okay. So like what that, like you're talking about right now, you need to make sure you have a properly sized valve at that pressure. Drop so say if it's 100 pounds and you're running like a 20 pound suction for low temp, and you end up with uh. Let's say 80 pound uh pressure drop.

Now that's gon na derate, the valve. They rate everything at 100 pounds at a multiplier of one, so anything lower than that hundred pounds is going to derate that valve anything higher than 100 pounds is going to increase capacity. In that valve, so this is where it comes in, but when you start floating the head down, you also start reducing the liquid temperature, which also is another correction factor which will cancel out the pressure drop most of the time. But unfortunately, with a headmaster i mean you could only get so cold on a single unit like where we we do a lot of rack stuff.

We're able to cool that gap, that liquid down more right. So because you have the capacity control to reduce like let's break this down easy, you have the capacity to control to make your compressor smaller. Yes, essentially like, there's a lot more to it, but i mean that's the easiest way to understand. It is basically, instead of installing a smaller compressor he's able to with valves or with vfds or different ways, he's able to reduce the capacity of that compressor right.

What we're seeing a lot of like we have a lot of customers that are doing they do single units for their walk-ins or like they're. Doing one-offs, like smaller units they're, actually putting in hot gas bypass, got it so they're, actually putting in hot gas bypass and desuperheating in order to control their capacity because they're having this problem and how's that adding to the energy consumption, i'm yeah, it's it's good. It's gon na it's gon na increase the energy consumption but they're trying to maintain that set suction pressure on that on that condensing unit got it in order to maintain that case temperature yeah. So i'm seeing uh really high tds right now on most of my equipment that um, you know that has these compressors, because i work out in the desert a lot where you know we hit 120 degrees and stuff and so you're sizing for extremes.

So right now, when it's 50 60 degrees outside i'm seeing 20 degree evaporator tds on my evaporators, you know well yeah and that's going to increase your evaporator size. So roughly every 10 degrees you increase the uh evaporator temp. You know your attempt to your td you're, increasing that evaporator to almost double right, so i mean you could take a 15 000 btu evaporator make it a 30 000 btu evaporator, just by changing the td on it. Just by dropping the suction yeah inadvertently affects us negatively.

When we deal with the awe stuff uh, you know, because we're not getting enough sub cooling to offset the the amount of you know, lower pressure drop that we're getting. So you know it's not that we're over. Here saying that uh, the awef is the problem. It's just honestly.

We need better design systems that account for all the issues that we're potentially going to run into, and it's not just as easy as going out and buying a replacement condensing unit. There's more to it. You know at least absolute minimum. You need to install a balance board expansion valve and make sure that it is sized appropriately and it's going to feed in a low ambient condition and a high ambient.

But you know what i think: what really needs to happen is is that the supply houses need to be educated on this, because you know they're the ones typically, unless you know you work, you know we work for someone that is going to take it to an Engineering firm yeah, if you're going to a supply house, they need to be educated on the fact of how to actually size it correctly to make sure they don't have these continual problems right, and i agree with that and unfortunately, i'm not picking on one supply house Or the other, it's hard enough to find a supply house guide, i'm going to say this that can pull a box of filters right. So you know who do you count on to size your equipment? Now there is supply houses out there. I'm not saying everyone is bad, but we have all run into supply houses um go into a spectrum that i have to deal with in trusting people that try to push different refrigerants. You know this one works, you know.

You've got conversions, you're, getting rid of 22 you're doing all this stuff, and oh we've got this refrigerant that can replace 22 no oil change necessary. That's a common thing. You hear from supply houses and it's like they're, not the person that we really should be talking to and again the supply house is, i'm not i'm not trying to make them all sound bad, but we as technicians, engineers, um. You know, owners whatever.

We need to do our research, we need to start talking to manufacturers figuring out how we're going to design this equipment, read the installation instructions and don't just trust. What a supply house says. Supply house gives me a txv. I remember you know this.

One should work. Should is not a word that i want to hear, i want to know, does it work? Is it going to work? Is it going to work in these ambience so um, so the awf stuff is definitely things that we all need to understand and i feel like there's not enough information out there. I know you guys recently released a podcast and - and i think that's great - we need more of that information and we, as technicians and owners, need to do our research, make sure that we're sizing equipment and also when it comes to the awef stuff, especially if we're Going to use these uh um, you know non-variable capacity, condensing units and stuff. We need to make sure that uh we're not oversizing our equipment because oversizing, i know we could get away with it in the past.

We could we, you know, and it wasn't right, but we could get away with it. We're really going to start to see issues with oversizing equipment now, especially if you're just swapping out a condensing unit or something you know we're going to run into those issues. One thing that can be avoided is, basically, you know not just swapping out the condensing unit. You know you're going to have to swap out the evaporator uh.

You know if it's that old and just make sure, as well as with the electric, electronic or regular expansion valve, because otherwise, what's going to happen, is we're going to run in this issue where it's going to appear that you're running a high super heat and and You're going to think, maybe it's because of the valve, and it technically is, but you know becoming educated and realizing why the valve is doing what it's doing is really important, yeah. Definitely so um, if you guys, are watching this live. I just pinned a message in the comments. After the show, i'm gon na pin, uh or i'll put it into the show notes too.

So we are at the ahr trade show. We are at the sporland booth and they actually have a uh, a giveaway for the zoom, lock max kit with the jaws and the tool. So i just posted a link, if you guys are watching this and you're at the show, come by the sporland booth. They have an entry ticket, you fill it out, you hand it to one of the sportland employees.

If you guys are not in the show in person, you can click the link that i just shared in the chat and or i will put it in the show notes of this video after you guys can enter that the giveaway, i believe, there's all the instructions When you click the link, but i believe the giveaway is wednesday um, but you guys do not have to be here to win it, so you guys can do it from the link. So definitely do that it's a cool way if you're interested in those kind of tools um, you know you can enter the link or you can enter it so uh, let's go ahead and jump on to a few other things um. I want to just kind of pick your guys's brain about stuff, so you know uh supermarket, i guess or supermarket the the heavy commercial heavy industrial stuff that you guys deal with right. I guess: do you guys like to be pigeonholed as supermarket text, or i mean? Does it does really make a difference? Not at all i mean most most of us refrigeration, guys in hvac.

You guys understand what a supermarket tech is, but maybe people don't i don't know so i my my in-laws are uh lawyers and doctors and all kinds of important stuff, and they asked me what i did because they thought i worked just worked on refrigerators at home And - and i was like i'm a climate control engineer - it's just a real good way to make me sound, really smart, just trying to get that acceptance. You know so um. You know: let's talk about this for a little while you know when it comes to installing components. Let's talk about expansion, valves, head pressure, control valves, any kind of valves that have seals have moving components inside in a perfect world.

We always want to purge with nitrogen when we're brazing, we always want to protect our components: wet towels heat blocking compounds, gels, whatever your floats your boat on what you want to use to protect the components, because you have things inside those valves that can be damaged Of course, right now i want to talk about the practicality of that, because there's times that i'm working on a system, my tiny stuff right - and it's got such a tiny expansion valve - that you physically can't get any heat blocking compounds in there. And you know, i think it's important for people to understand that you know. There's there's a point at which you kind of have to just make things work and do your best, and i guess that's when understanding how to braise things quick. You know people will ask me like: why do you have your torch set so hot? Well, you know sometimes, when i'm trying to get in there and get out as fast as i can.

You know we'll just get in there and sweat the thing in and go to town, but you know you could plan accordingly like uh, so sporeland sportland has you know two different types of buildable expansion, valves right, the q and the bq kit right. So what i do is you know to offset that you know actually just put the valve in place without the without the rubbers and without the cartridge put it in after it cools down, then you don't have to worry, really worry about having to damage it there. You go yeah, that's a great idea, the same thing and i just i just build it afterwards. Yeah and that's a great point.

There's there's ways that we can go about it, but we also need to understand as technicians we need to do our best. You know to to try to do these jobs correctly, but there's also a point at which sometimes you got to do what you got to do to get equipment going um, but i mean we always want to try to follow best practices. You know and protecting components. Brazing with nitrogen, but i mean come on - let's be honest: there's been times in your career, maybe once or twice that you've raised without nitrogen right, yeah, maybe once or twice and i'd say the same for you too right usually once or twice probably a lot more Than that, but i mean usually when he's breathing and all that flashy, but i mean we try, you know - and it's also different to the type of work that you guys do right, because you guys i mean i have to deal with walk-ins that have been down For three or four hours that have you know, 15 grand worth of product and that's a lot of money, but at the same time you know your guys's racks go down, you guys have entire uh cases, i mean that's, got tons and tons of stuff, and it Has to be fixed, like yesterday, like like there's you're already late, because you didn't show up when it broke like oh, absolutely um.

You know that that was one of the things like you know verse, because i've done both i've done uh. You know, like the heavy heavy, heavy industrial and then like supermarket and like one of the differences, is because there's even more money in industrial. You know there's redundancy where supermarket doesn't so, if, like you said, if it's broke that day, it should have been fixed. Last week, yeah uh, while we're doing this, because we got a lot of new people in here i do want to just recap: we are at the 2022 ahr trade show we're at the parker spoiling booth.

Uh to my right, i have kevin compass to my left. I have brett wetzel there from the advanced refrigeration podcast. If you guys are interested in finding out more information about the advanced refrigeration podcast, it's super easy go to their website advancedrefrigerationpodcast.com and for those that can't spell it's. Okay, it's not a big deal.

I'm gon na go ahead and post a link inside here there you go advanced refrigeration, podcast um. What's your guys's goals with podcast? What was the reason why you guys started it kevin? Well, the kind of bridge, the gap we have with uh technical training. I mean there's a big uh, big skills gap on the supermarket side and uh. We basically started it to kind of like you know, train guys.

I mean because uh there is no training for the supermarket side. Basically, there's no uh. Besides, like manufacturers, training right, there's, not even half the time, there's, not even that, so i mean besides reading manuals and uh getting like in person training from your your company, there is no training for us, so i mean me and brett started this to try to Kind of grow it and uh teach guys. You know about uh why things are the way they are and uh.

You know how to move about it and uh. You know, learn and uh grow and we started doing some youtube videos here recently, with our controls. Side of our stuff, so um we're just trying to start to get into that, but uh. That's why we basically started the podcast.

That's cool um. Do you guys? I mean we. I understand the the the reason why you know i make youtube videos and stuff, but i have to say that there's a whole new dynamic of people that really do like to learn from watching videos from listening to podcasts and i'll. Be fair and i'd like to hear your guys's opinion too.

I'm still a fan of a formal education, someone that teaches somewhat of the basics and they can understand stuff, but i mean i also think that listening to content, like you guys put out like i put out, i think it's just great to continue people's education teach People tips uh, like you said, uh better training for, like kevin, said better training for the stuff that there isn't training for yeah. Well, i mean a lot of what we do. So it's it's! It's all about personal development. I mean a lot of people.

They don't understand that this isn't just a nine to five. This isn't just a paycheck, this is actual career and you know it. It is what you get what you put into it. You know what i mean if you're going to read every day for at least an hour, you know you're going to get that out of it.

10-Fold um, you know, and that like it like, we said before, you know: that's the reason why we started the podcast. Just basically to get the information out um, you know a lot of uh. You know the basic stuff is out there, but like customer specific stuff, that's where you know people don't get the training on. Unfortunately, because the customers a lot of times, they make up how their stuff works.

Well, we need to know so we can know how to fix it. So that's you know, that's why we do what we do. So i kind of want to ask you guys his ques opinion on this. I deal with restaurant management because i deal with restaurants right and i deal with a lot of corporate restaurants.

So technically i work for the corporate office. I don't work for the on-site management. I don't work for the restaurant in general, but i still have to have somewhat of a relationship and respect for the on-site management. I think it's really important, because i've seen dishwashers become cooks, cooks, become managers, managers become area directors and then get make their way into the corporate structure.

So you know disrespecting someone just because they're a cook or whatever you know that leads to failures down the line, because that ruins its reputation, but when you guys work in your guys stuff, what is your hierarchy? Are you working for corporate? Do you have points of contact? How does that work within the supermarket side? I mean we usually work. I mean we always usually for corporate, i mean, but we have to have that com that that relationship with with the store managers with the regional directors. You know the more you know, honest and and, and you know the more educated discussions you can have with them the better off they're going to take your opinion. So if you tell them that that hey this needs to be fixed or otherwise you're going to have some sort of failure, we should probably get this done.

They're more apt to listen more apt to actually get it done, which gives them less down time, which makes us look better yeah. So, on my side um, i will often talk with management. Sometimes i'll pick, the brains of cooks and things like that. To help me troubleshoot issues, how much are you leaning on right or grocery store management to help you, when diagnosing things kevin? It's usually the departments right, like you, talk to the department head, sometimes they'll be able to give you some information most of the time, but you guys have sophisticated control systems that have a lot of information that i don't have so that helps you guys too right.

It's a lot of a lot, a lot of graphs as long as they're they're accurate. You know what i mean. That's the biggest thing. You know a lot of times when they do the pm's they'll make sure you know everything's working to where they can see it.

But then won't dig into oh. Maybe this pressure transducer is off by 30 pounds and causing severe issue right. Yeah, that's cool, see! I don't have a lot of that they're starting to implement that in you, have new controllers and different things coming in that have graphing abilities and and sensors and different things, but it's not mainstream in the restaurant side. Yet! Well, that's what's nice, like you know, so the sportline s3c controller right, what's really cool about.

It is the fact that, yes, it can be used for single systems, but then on top of it it has so much graphing capability that you can you know. Basically, you can use it to help, diagnose and not have to rely on people yeah. That's i i'm i'm looking forward to that. I, like the the potential see for you, guys, you've been dealing with a lot of drives vfds and different things like that.

Those are still kind of new to the light commercial side, so you know we see them in a package unit here and there making them two-speed blower motors, but they're really starting to bring them in we. I have yet to see any vfds on compressors um. In my stuff, my racks are pretty dumb racks and i think even i've had a discussion. I don't know if you remember: we had a discussion a while back, like a lot of my racks, are compressor killers and the way that they design them, because you'll have a multiplex system with you know six coils on it and then the last coil will be A 1200 btu evaporator and you've got a two horsepower compressor on there and there's those times in the summer when just that lowest btu coil will be running and your compressor is just short short cycling running into issues um and it's just reducing compressor life.

So i'm interested in all you know the new technology coming out, um the drives that are able to be put on compressors and stuff. I'm also a little afraid, because, just like you guys, we have a big skills gap on the light commercial side and uh. That takes a lot of brain power to understand. You know one of the things that i run into when it comes with anything, whether i'm not i'm using smart tools.

You know digital tools, apps and different things, there's still human error in there, because it's super simple for someone to take the liquid line, clamp and put it on the discharge line and if they don't know what they're doing and then all of a sudden they have 75 degrees, sub cooling, and they don't understand, what's going on here or you know, and it's like so so we still even though we have smart tools and all this different stuff, we still have to know how to interpolate when data is bad and how to analyze. It we still do that with gauges. I mean you know kevin, and i have a really different outlook on this. I don't think new hires should ever get a digital set of gauges.

I want them to be able to learn how to actually calculate super heat and sub cooling and why they're doing it? Because i've had so many people where they send me pictures of what their gauges say. And then i look at it. And then i realize the numbers are so out of whack there's no way in humanly possible. This could actually happen.

So i'm like check where your gauges are and sure, as you know, i'm sure there's anything they're telling me. Oh yeah. I have the sensor swaps so like knowing where the stuff is supposed to be to get the proper. You know, calculations i think, is imperative, but that's where kevin - and i kind of you know, disagree so i'd like to get your opinion.

I think i know kevin's and i think i know brett's, but i want you guys to out yourselves here: okay, so no uh. What do you guys think about like digital tools? Um digital probes, uh? You know uh digital apps that are helping us to diagnose things. Like you kind of went into that, but you know i meant i'm i'm fine with apps that that make your make your job easier as long as you realize what you're using it for you know what i mean and i think that's the important thing: understanding how To use it and uh, i'm you know me personally, i i i don't want this to come off the wrong way but, like i use apps right, but i don't necessarily use the diagnostics things in the apps right. I'm looking at the data now, occasionally i'll.

Look back at diagnostics, but i do have to say right now: there's not one single app that is just hands down a refrigeration, app there's a lot that are adapted to refrigeration and there's something to do a good job, but they don't have troubleshooting abilities yet, and So more or less i'm looking at raw data, but i do appreciate that raw data, because it does help me to diagnose things. But you need to know how to understand if it's giving you weird data, is it actually a problem with the equipment, or did you just put a probe in the wrong place and that's something that could lead someone down a big rabbit hole of assuming things are Right, you know, did you depress the schrader? I mean these are all basic common sense things, but i mean i we've all done it where what's going on it leads you down a rabbit hole and you find out. Oh, i'm not depressing the schrader, you know and i'm not actually getting system pressure. You know so those those are things that can.

Definitely. I don't think i got your answer, though. What do you think about digital stuff? I mean i, i haven't used a set of non-digital gauges in probably like six or six years yeah. I i i fully switched over yeah, i'm i'm using most of digital too.

The only thing that i'll every once in a while use, analog stubbies for is when i'm working on r290, but i even use digital on r290. So yeah i mean i i've i've gone fully to probes. Like i haven't. I don't even have a set of gauges in my truck.

Oh so you don't even use digital manifolds no see yours is a little different than mine, because oftentimes you'll be charging with giant tanks and just hoses hooked up to your system right you're. Not necessarily, i mean there's a lot of times. We work on single units too, like i mean i'll end up taking a core puller and uh yeah, using that as a a three-way or whatever you can access, i just throw a core puller and a hose in my bag. That way, i have it and if i need to add gas anything or pump it down, i mean i just use a core puller and hose so i'll still use a gauge set.

Like a you know, a digital gauge set when i know i'm going to be doing a big system - repair um, you know, but i will usually use probes for most of the stuff. If i'm working on package units it's probes all day long because it's so easy to be able to close the panels and see everything with the panels um, you know closed uh. Something i do want to address right now is there's a lot of people that don't quite understand i'll, see, pictures on social media - i don't know if you guys will ever see them, but people post a picture on social media working on a package unit and they're. Like how come my blower current is so high and they'll be showing you a picture of their meter with the blower door off and they're testing the blower current directly at the motor leaving the dang door off.

I mean understanding how systems work and how you know what affects your, your, your package unit, you know and and how you have to have doors on the equipment. That's where smart probes really really come in handy. You know you were talking about new package unit and the energy efficiency. I i want to get your uh look on this because i noticed that carrier is using basically a centrifugal style.

Blower. That's like on the side. Have you know it's basically variable speed? Have you had much much work with that? No and i'm deathly afraid of them and the reason why it's not because i'm afraid of the technology most of my package units are operating in restaurants, where they do not have good air filtration and most of my indoor blower motors about every three months. I have to pull them out and degrease the blower wheels, so i think about a giant axial fan motor full of grease that just doesn't sound like something fun to me.

So, while is the technology there, and does it save them energy, i'm sure it does, but i'm worried about these customers not having properly designed buildings, not properly cleaning their air. You know when you think about it. We have a return air drop in a restaurant that has a you know downstairs, but we have filters and a package unit upstairs. So if you've got a greasy restaurant that doesn't have a proper air balance and they're pulling grease through the return, it's going to fill the entire ductwork up and it is going to make it through the filters too.

And it's going to line the equipment with grease and i worry about this new technology causing issues with that. So that's it! I i like the technology i embrace it, but i'm just afraid so. I have purposely not sold um a package unit lately because i'm like man, i don't know what i'm going to do here, because this customer is going to be pissed at me in a year and a half when it all when it all. When i have to replace a 1200 blower motor selling better filtration yeah, that is getting the nafta certified and send them the right stuff, yeah yeah, so um, looking through my list of things to talk about right here, um yeah - i don't want to talk about that.

One, oh no. We definitely can't talk about that. Kevin said we can't talk about that one. So no i'm just throwing them under the bus, um.

So uh we already talked about that digital thermo, thermostats and defrost um. Let's just kind of recap: we're gon na start to wrap this up. We're gon na keep this a little bit short today, but i'll definitely be going live again tomorrow too, and we'll talk a little bit more so um. Overall, i think the show is going great.

I think that there's a great turnout of people - it's been amazing, um to see people, it's been really cool because i've been able to be here and watch. People want to come up. Shake your hand, talk to you absolutely. How does i want to ask you guys that you know i'm going to use the term that i hate absolutely hate, but as an influencer? Oh god, i hate that word.

I hate it. It is just not a word that any of us like, but as whatever you want to call us, what is it, how do you feel kevin when people do people recognize you do people reach out to you on social media? I mean do they? Is it weird? Having a presence on social media now and people recognizing and know who you are knowing, who you are yeah yeah, it's kind of weird, it's kind of weird yeah yeah does it i mean have you had interactions where people walked up to you in supply houses and Things like that, not so much of a supply house, because i mean we were like the supermarket side's, a pretty close-knit community. So, like i mean chicago, everybody knows everybody, so i mean oh, don't tell him about, like he'll roll up to a different state that he's never been to before and like someone's fanboying him he's like. Oh my god it you know what i mean.

I think it's a natural reaction, because even for myself, it's i i appreciate and don't - and i i'm gon na speak for everybody. It's not that we don't appreciate the feedback. It's just. It's still something we're getting used to.

It's still does it feel like we don't deserve it like that. I feel like that's kind of like where i'm at like. Why, like i'm, i'm just fixing i'm just a tech, i'm just a dude, that's out here, fixing things yeah so like that's. Why? I think that where i have the problem with that, where, like i don't feel like i deserve it, you know what i mean yeah.

I i kind of feel that a little bit, i'm sure uh, there's there's a whole bunch of names for it imposter syndrome and different things like that, and i think some of them are are there. I mean i appreciate the fact i'm not trying to toot my horn or anything. I appreciate the fact that i have some knowledge, but it's also just kind of weird to be recognized um, but i'm thankful. I i am it's just my own personal demons that i battle and stuff, so no i'm thankful for it all, but um at this point, i think we're gon na go and wrap this up.

Uh we're definitely get back on again soon. Uh, probably tomorrow, we'll do something um any closing words: hey guys uh. If you're in the area come down, the sportline booth come visit chris and i will be hanging out most of the most the day tomorrow and uh, and thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it any uh words of wisdom.

There kevin no, i'm uh. I got nothing. Okay, all right i'll! Leave you with uh. What's one of my favorite quotes right here, uh pain, heels, chicks, dig, scars and uh glory lasts forever.

You know what movie that's from? No, oh dude, there's something wrong with you: pain, heals, chicks, dig, scars and glory lasts forever. It's a keanu, reeves movie, surfers uh, no, not surfers football. Oh, i don't know what it's called. Oh, it's the replacements.

That's one of my favorite quotes man. I don't know why it's so silly and it's just and to come from keanu reeves too. That's a weird quote right: i'm idolizing, keanu reeves, but all right, we're gon na end this. I really appreciate everybody.

Um, like i said, there's gon na be a link. We already talked about it spoiling, has a uh uh entry, if you're here local come fill out, this uh sheet at the trade show turn it into one of the sportland employees. You'll be entered to win a zoom, lock max tool and the jaws okay uh. If you're, not here in person, there's a link in the chat and i will put a link in the show notes for you to enter even if you're, not here, they'll be doing the giveaway soon, all the rules and everything are in there other than that.

We're going to close this out and we will catch you guys on the next one: okay, there it goes uh, wonderbar.