This was a Kariak Blu prep table that had a refrigerant leak, I topped off the charge and got the unit operating while I ordered the parts, than returned and got the unit all dialed in.
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I'm working on a kyrat prep table. This is a glycol prep table, so they've got a condensing unit down here. The condensing unit has a txb and it cools a flat plate. Heat exchanger in the back I'll show you in a minute, then they have a glycol pump that pumps glycol across that heat, exchanger pumps it to the bottom and to the top.
So we have no refrigerant in the bottom section evaporator or the cold rail and then glycol is pumped to the bottom sections. So when I got here, my temperature controller said run air and the unit was short cycling on and off. I put my service gauges on it and it was acting like it was pumped down because I had low head pressure and my suction pressure was just on off on off on off. Now I've had a history with these boxes before where I've had bad glycol pumps.
So that was the first place I checked, I amped out the glycol pump. It was running at point 9 amps. My thought was that it was working so then my next thought was maybe the evaporator froze up, because I have seen that before so I unplug the compressor and let the glycol pump run for a little while and just to try to defrost the evaporator. If it was frozen up, I got a little.
What do you want to say? I had my blinders on and I wasn't thinking straight so couldn't figure out. What's going on with the box again, I still had the back of my head that maybe I had a bad glycol pump, so I called tech support, asked them what the amperage should be on the glycol pump, and they informed me that anything above 0.5 is all Good so and then he just asked me well, how do you know you're not low on refrigerant, and I said well, it's acting like it's pumping down because my refrigerant staying the same and he says you know what he goes put a little refrigerant in there see What happens sure than put some gas in there, and that was it? I went in with the notion that this thing possibly had a bad pump, because I'd had history with the pumps. Failing on this, it's important to always go in with an open mind. It's alright to have some things in the back of your head, but don't go in with blinders on like I did today.
You know I didn't waste too much time we're talking. 10. 15 minutes, but still I the unit ended up having a refrigerant leak and gets on the suction service valve, of which I'll put a picture up right now. So you guys can see so I topped off the charge and got it operational.
But again, I'm just saying: don't go in with blinders because it happens to the best of us and there's nothing wrong with it. Just try to do your best, not okay, so here's our glycol pump little guy right here. It's got a plug going into the top. I'm gon na hard to see, but I was able to get an amp reading on those wires.
Sorry, it's not focusing really well, but it has a plug that you can disconnect. So I disconnected check for 120. I had it and then Hampton out - and I have 2.9 my flat plate heat exchangers back behind here inside here. Okay, but all it does is just pumps glycol. It tells you to keep the glycol within a certain level and it's got a still annoy to shut off the bottom section glycol flow. So that way they can continue to cool the top, because the top runs a little bit colder than the bottom. But it's not too difficult of a box, but again it's just. It's really easy to go in thinking.
It's one thing and ignore some obvious signs so nobody's perfect everybody. Does it just to try to prevent it? Okay, so it's important to understand that you know we all make mistakes and it happens. You know to learn from them. Obviously, as the important thing you know and to recognize that hey there was a mistake there.
So again it really didn't take me long, but I did go in there with the with the mindset that hey we've probably got a bad pump, so I just kind of went down that path and there's nothing wrong with me. Checking what I checked I mean I probably still would have checked that, even if it was just a refrigerant leak, just because I've had those problems before, but the whole notion that I went in there thinking that it was a bad pump. You know so I investigated down that path. Luckily, like I said it was only 10 minutes or something like that, but I could have gone down a rabbit hole of unhooking, the palm.
You know all kinds of stuff you know so, but you know when I called tech support. He says. Well, hey I mean you think it's possibly just Lo and refrigerant. It's like you know what I didn't even think about that.
You know I mean I assumed that it was just pumping down, but yeah it was just low on refrigerant. That's all it was okay. So I talked to a tech support and you know he gave me the an idea where to look what kind of pressures they run on that unit. It's pretty typical for what you think.
So that's where we were running. I talked off the charge. I'm going to go ahead and order the rotor, lock valve and we'll come back out and replace the dryer in the rotor, lock and they'll be up and running. I shouldn't say they're up and running right now I topped off the charge.
So it's good. I just gave them a disclaimer: hey this box still has a leak, make sure that you guys are really watching it cuz. I don't want you to have to throw away product. You know coming in the morning in the boxes at 70 degrees or something.
So I basically put the decision on them to leave product in it or not. You know my recommendation is this: hey use it during the day because you're here then unload it at nighttime and then load it in the morning. That way, you know it's working and you don't lose product just so I got the parts we're back. We're gon na go ahead and get going on this guy and cover the charge change.
The rotor lock valve change the dryer vacuum it down and recharge. So, let's hope it doesn't go too crazy, there's a small little system so recovering through my gauges. You don't take second gasps out of this thing, real, quick suppose we get the gas out and start taking it apart. It's going to be tight, we'll get it that valve is what we're gon na be changing. It's nice and tight in there. So I cut the road a lot val/val, I'm gon na make a new piece for that. But since I got that out, I'm gon na go ahead and change this dryer. While it's tucked back in here and I got a little more space, they were using a 3/8 dryer with bushings.
I'm gon na just go and put a straight quarter. Inch 8 cubic inch dryer in that so, okay, I got it mocked up. Sea-Ice waged it right here goes into the copper, so I'm gon na go ahead and weld on this guy. Whenever you're welding on these service valves, you always want a mid seat.
The stem because they'll get stuck if you go one way either direction and then you'll have to change the whole valve so always put it in the mid seat and I'd love to say, wrap this thing with a wet towel and all that good stuff. But it ain't going to work so sometimes you just got ta wing it. Okay, my valves, welded in it was tight. I did it with minimal burning.
I think I just had a little bit of melted right here and that's it. Okay. You know one of the big important things is is number one. You have to learn how not to react, because when you're, when you're brazing, I should have called a brazing min ago when you're brazing, you will burn yourself.
Okay, so number one learn how not to react, because reacting can hurt you when you panic, because you've brought the torches across your fingers and then you drop the torches and then you catch. Your pants on fire sounds silly, but that's when you really get hurt. Okay, life happens. You rub up against a discharge line while it's running and then you freak out.
You Jam your hand in the condenser family. You know you got to learn how not to react and then number two. You got to learn how to weld whine, meaning. I could only hit this well from this point right here and from this point, and I was able to get just from the other side just a little bit from the other side.
You'd have to learn how to turn your heat up. You know when you, when you go to school, they teach you how to weld in a lab and it's all 3d, because you can get to all sides of it and and they look perfect and the teacher cuts them open and you use minimal solder and all That stuff, okay in the field, lay the solder on it. Now that you learned how to braise, you know in a class now it's time to get out into the real world and use some solder use. Some heat don't be afraid to use a bigger tip than usual.
I braised with a number 2 tip at all times. You go to school and they're gon na tell your braised with a zero or a number one. Well number: two is what works for me. Okay, so anyways, I got it all in the welds look half-assed decent, I'm gon na go ahead, and now I got ta get this pressure control on this other side, which is right here, that's gon na be a so okay. I got the pressure control on the other side of that valve now night log is your best friend or at thread sealant. I prefer night log just because blue death makes a mess we block whatever you want to call it. I don't care what people say about flares. You have to use a thread sealant, so I prefer the night log because it's an oil based sealant and it doesn't cause problems.
You know people that want to comment. I'd love to see you get your torque wrench birthday. It ain't happenin so just open-ended 5/8 tighten that puppy down a little night log on there. Now I'm gon na pull the old rotor log gasket out right there that you can barely see put the new wrote a log gasket in put a little dialogue on that nut.
That's the other thing too! You know nylock works as an oil too, so you can use nylon for the threads and you can use a nylon to lubricate the net which helps the nut to spin and not grab the inside of the road along valve same thing for the flare, so we're Gon na put a little dialogue on the back side over here and then put a little dialogue on the threads over here and we'll take just the teens in a dialogue and wrap. It wipe it around the ring and you got to go back in the stuff. Go down and hopefully, there's no leak. Okay, I am a tool.
I have every tool. You know I buy everything this because I enjoy it. There is a time and place to use your fancy tools. Something like this.
This is where, and oh, my goodness, drum beat there - we go, there's a time to use your field, these gauges that have a micron gauge in them. This is that time, there's no room to put fancy vacuum manifold, single host setups with half-inch hoses again. I use them when they're necessary and when they're half with a ball on a situation like this, it's tight, I have no room. I don't have the space to get in here with my big hoses.
Okay and my core removal tools - and everything are these - you know - is this the best way to do it? No, but does this serve a purpose, heck, yeah? Okay, you have to know how to use it. You have to know how to analyze the readings. Could it go faster if I used a single hose setup on each thing, without a manifold heck yeah? Would there be less potential for leaks, yeah, but real world? Sometimes you can okay, oh yeah and again don't kill me Jen Bergman quarter-inch, going to the thing. Yes, I could put a 3/8 on there.
Yes, I do have it, but I'm really not that big of a hurry on something like this. Okay, but don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing any of that stuff, because I have and use every one of those tools. You know happy on mega flow kits vacuum trees.
I have it all and I will use it in a situation where it warrants itself, but in this situation it doesn't it's not really. You know practical. Okay also, you need to be 500 percent sure that your welds are good. Okay, you can't be relying on a nitrogen pressure test to make sure that your welds are gon na hold. Alright, you need confidence in your welds I'd like someone to tell me how I'm gon na get back there and fix that dryer and now that this thing's, all back together. If there's a leak on that dryer, okay, tell me how that's gon na happen. It's not so you know I have to take this apart in pieces. I have to put it back together in pieces.
The dryer was the first thing to go in. I am 100 % sure my loves are not leaking on that dryer. Okay, you have to be confident than that. We cannot rely on the nitrogen pressure test to make sure that your welds are going to hold.
You know there's times in places where you're gon na do it but think about it again: practicality, it's not very practical on something like this. So ok, you have to know I'm sorry about that rant. But on another note you have to know the sequence of operation and how your box works, there's no point in vacuuming down when I got to solenoid valves blocking the refrigerant flow right, so I had to. Actually, I only have one solenoid valve Waffen river flow, but I turned on power because the low pressure control shutting the unit off right now, so I'm vacuuming the whole system down all right.
It's up and running kind of cool the box Tim actually didn't come up. Very high at all cabinet 41 in the three hours I was working on this and rail at 36. That's not a bad anyways. We're operating and held a good vacuum did a leak check you so bubbles.
Oh, my well is everything much good. Okay, you always want to weigh in the charge when you can this particular system. They don't design them with sight glasses and there's no room to put a sight glass in here. So we're going to take our these are going to be kind of rules of thumb.
Again, you always weigh your charge in I've got the factory pressures because I waited in so now we're gon na, compare it to a rule of thumb, just to give us a ballpark idea where we're at so it says 73. I'm gon na call it 75 for the ambient air, so we're currently just a little above 30 degrees over ambient for our liquid saturation temperature and we're just a hair right at about 30 degrees under box temp for our vapor saturation temperature 25 to 30 degrees. For our vapor saturation temperature is pretty typical and 25 to 30 degrees above ambient is pretty typical on reach cooler because they run higher box TDS on these things. So again, though, this thing is pulling down, so it's under a heavy load right now, so you know take it as with grain of salt, I guess used to say, but these are just rules of thumb.
Again I weighed in the charge. I know that my charge is correct, so just kind of gives you an idea. You know, there's there's no way the manufacturers not going to tell you that you should have 30 degrees above ambient and 25 degrees below box temp. It's just things that you have to kind of pay attention to and, as you work on this equipment, more and more, you kind of remember, okay, this one typically runs, so it gives you a ballpark idea on how to check charge. You know without pulling the charge out plane about game, but pulling the charge out Wayne it back in is the only way to do it right. You know, let's just say that I came out here and the system was low, like I did the other day. I just put refrigerant in until I was 30 over ambient on our liquid saturation temperature that I knew I was in the ballpark, and I knew that when I came back today, I would weigh in the charge and get the exact amount in there. If we were having a refrigeration problem like just with the bottom section, then we would look at the TSB.
We'd pay a little more attention to the pressures, but right now the fact that I waited in - and I'm within my rule of thumb on my vapour saturation temperature right here and my liquid saturation temperature tells me that we're pretty good. So a little recap. We had a service tall and ack iraq blue. They call their glycol system, their blue prep table.
The unit was low on refrigerant found, refrigerant leak on the suction service valve. We went ahead to talk to the factory. The unit's actually still under partial warranty got all the parts ordered received. The parts came back out recovered all the gas changed.
The valve changed the dryer, like I showed you guys in the video. That's a really tight box everything's in really intricate places, and you kind of like have to do things in steps. You can't just jump in there and change the valve it's easier to do the dryer first. You know you saw how I did it.
So I gave you a few tips in there. Those are my personal opinions. Okay, that does not rain. True for everything in that particular situation, I use my manifold the vacuum through.
I don't always do that only in certain situations where I find it necessary. Okay, I prefer to use vacuum core removal tools and vacuum hoses and you know do it right, but there's times where it's just not practical. Okay, there's what's practical and what's not practical, and this is one of those times where it was just easier to pull it through my gauges. Okay, that's not something! I do all the time but, like I said it happens, sometimes other than that it was a pretty straightforward repair, no major problems, no leaks and the box.
You know never even really got that high. While I was working on so that's pretty much it all right.
Chris; Definitely nice to see someone getting into the guts of one of these. One question. Do you know ANYTHING about the refrigerant to glycol heat exchanger? I have a table that is leaking glycol at the heat exchanger (putting blue 'stuff' on the floor which worries the client). I've got a new heat exchanger ready to go, but the refrigerant connections on the heat exchanger are nothing I've seen before in my 15 years in the field. The Kairak "tech" I spoke to was clueless. Have you any insight? Service area Nepean??
So, enough time went by, did you drop your torch and set your pants on fire? Be honest……
An old man always told me that every reaction has a consequence. Wether good or bad. It always has a consequence
I would love to be able to recover And refill vehicles to their proper charge…. never gonna find a customer who gives a da** about right they just want cold
I like the term "real world"
What is Kairak Tech Support number thx. Again love your videos ty Service area Ottawa??
Ever worked on a Subway , prep table? If a leak in the evaporator, it’s basically garbage, bad design.
What a nightmare trying to braze in that small of a space! I always notice how dirty the equipment is in your videos. At least in facilities maintenance we have regular PM's so we can keep everything clean. I hate seeing dirty coils, fan blades & compressors. Drives me nuts! It is much easier to spot melted wires, oil & other issues when things are not covered in grease or dust bunnies. I'm probably a little OCD. I guess in the restaurant business that is a way of life.
Good videos. One thing about these units is that if you close the glycol shut offs you can disconnect the electrical on the back and pull out the condensing unit completely. I always set it on a hand cart when working on these. Learned this when replacing a leaking heat exchanger on one of these. It takes a minute to pull out the condenser but worth it for the extra room and better angles for brazing. Also, the service valve always always leak on these units.
Think they need to give it a good clean
Saw this title. Thinking. Man. I hated mine. Leak on the rotolock valve. Watch. And yep. You had the same experience. I kept the valve too. Never seen one pitted so bad.
Great job again
such bull with brazing set up everything take it to your truck or even just use a table .. weld it up that braze that copper.. simple and bull with the Teflon tape don't use that crap its purpose is plumbing
On the vacuum:. Exactly bro. Everyone hating on gauges when it's been used for ever. There's a time and place. You got that right Service area Orleans??
I have to work on one of these tomorrow. Glad I found your video
Another quality video. You working in a BJ’s? We have a couple we do and that equipment looks awful familiar. As in most of your videos you paid attention to detail, the little steps. They’re so critical and overlooked by people with less experience. Thanks!
Good video Are you in Orleans ?
Great vid
So how do you make sure the solinoid is open when pulling a vacuum? How do you bypass the low pressure. I kinda missed that part?
When I first started in refrigeration in Australia, combination low medium temp cabinets with a milk well were common. They used copper eutectic tanks for cooling in each section. A eutectic solution of water and methylated spirits 40% was used and the solution circulated by thermo syphon (no pump). They held between 100 litres and 200 litres ( approx 25 to 50 U.S. Gallons). They worked well between the ice cream section, medium temp and milk well. Temperature was controlled by adjusting stop valves on each tank. The main service problems were brine leaks or air locks. there was a plug in the top of each tank to relieve the air.The early ones (pre R12 refrigerant) worked with a low side float while the later ones were D.X. They went out of favour in the early 1970s.
Chris and Dave rule YouTube…thanks guys…dave is nor-cal
Another great hvac&r channel. Subscribed!
Worst burn I ever got was when I dropped my solder and reached in front of the flame
Chris, if I told you that I never make a mistake like that I'd be BS'ing you. On average I'll hit a job once a month where I jump down that rabbit hole and it's completely the wrong diagnosis… Just last month I changed out a condenser fan motor before I realized the issue was a fuse. What screwed me up is I used my backup meter because my main meter battery died, and my backup meter is an auto ranging meter, I was looking for 230 volts at the remote condenser disconnect, and in the bright sunlight I missed the micro volts symbol on the auto ranging meter and read a ghost voltage of .223 volts and thought I had 223 volts – switch out the condenser fan motor and then realized that it was a bad fuse after the motor change out. We all make mistakes…
Another good video man! Thanks.
Never worked on one like this with the glycol. Cool. Something different , at least for me to see Are you in Kanata ?
Nice job I miss reefer work and sometimes get to do some… now it's vrf and a.c. repair and pm for me… but it pays the bills I guess…
What temp do they run the glycol at on those units Are you in Nepean ?
Does your JB Platinum work well for you ? I got one off ebay for $130 is very lightly used condition. Looks to be a really well built unit.
Great suggestions as usual
Jim bergman 🤣😂
Nice job brother 👍🏼 🤙🏼
YEP, REAL WORLD AND CLASSROOM ARE SOOOOO DIFFERENT….
Your rant just prove that you know your shit !!!! Good job,glad I found your channel !!!
Great job 👍
Not fun brazing in those… I had to replace a txv in one once
What percentage of glycol do those recommend? I've ran into many chillers that pumps are overamping because people decide to throw in pure 100% glycol and expect it to function normally. Mainly on breweries I will recommend a water/glycol ratio of 60/40 or even 70/30
Good video Chris. I like watching Refrigeration videos man I miss doing that kinda work. Good repair nice work bro. 🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻
Hate having to change condenser fan motor on units like that.😎
Nice work!
Sometimes when I get brazing jobs like that suction valve, I'll put everything in place and then mark the parts with a sharpie, you can then take the valve off and braze it on the bench, doesn't matter if its not 100% aligned as the copper will be soft enough to be able to tweak it a bit for the easier joint to be done in situ.
Like your honest real world assessment.Good job explaining why you did some things differently.
Not all rules have to be seal in concrete. Thank you 🙏
Great video bud , hey those glycol containers crack then you leak all the glycol I worked on a few of those in the past . Also pumps start humming when unit runs out of glycol or when is low . Just my experience. Great video !! Are you in Barrhaven ?
Kairaks are good machines, but they are expensive. One of their blu models cost almost $40k!
Very nice, work on a lot of those.
Like the work! Not the unit. Service area Barrhaven??
Great video brother!! Happy Independence Day 🇺🇸
Interesting prep table haven't seen one with glycol in it before. Must be a very expensive unit. One little thing I would do to make the braze job easier would be get your parts into position and braze it external of the unit then Swedge the new piece of copper so the braze will fall into the pocket instead of having to drag it up. A lot of times I'll just bend it horizontally to make it easier to flow. Don't you love having to disclaim everything you do because you know you're going to be judged for everything that's questionable, when all you're trying to do is help others. LOL I'm guilty of it on my videos.
Wish I can get into hvac. Too bad it's too late for me, I'm already 26.