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I've been a Mitsubishi diamond contractor for a good many years. I think it was. It was 2008 2008 2009. When we first became a Miss Abby, she diamond contractor - and it's been a really good experience - I'm very thankful to Mitsubishi for all that they've done to help me in my business.

So if you're familiar with the Mitsubishi diamond contractor program or even if you're not you might want to go check that out just go to em e HVAC comm forward, slash diamond contractor one beat zoom on the 10 second flame free refrigerant, fitting from Parker reduced labor Costs by sixty percent with no brazing no flame and no fire spotter discover how Siouxland can help you be more efficient and productive visit. Zoom lot comm for more information. Help me welcome the man who thinks a sling. Psychrometer makes him look like a cowboy, so he always shouts yeehaw, while using it Brian or that's actually, not true, because who uses a sling psychrometer anymore.

I mean I used to use when years ago and of course, when I did use one of course I ran around saying. Aha, I mean who doesn't do that right. This is the HVAC school podcast, the podcast, that's for technicians by technicians that helps you remember some things that you might have forgotten as well as helps remember some things that you might have forgotten to know. In the first place I am Brian or, and today we have Bill Johnson Bill Johnson - is the original author, one of the original authors of the refrigeration and air conditioning technology manual, he's somebody who I look up to greatly he's one of the kind of the founding Fathers of HVAC education and what we know today a lot of what I know about air conditioning I learned from reading the refrigeration and air conditioning technology manual, and today we want to talk about a important topic of topical.

I get a lot of requests for and that's just basic low voltage diagnosis. So here we go Bill Johnson, all right today on the podcast, I'm glad to have back the man, the myth, the legend bill, Johnson, one of the original authors of the refrigeration and air conditioning technology manual. So thanks for coming on bill, you bet so today I was hoping to talk a little bit about low voltage, diagnosis, the ins and the outs of low voltage diagnosis and then maybe just go through a couple quick scenarios. Let's just start by talking through why it's so difficult for technicians to get their head around low voltage diagnosis, what I've heard out there in the field? It's probably the number one question or a complaint or gripe that I get from taxes that they have a hard time chasing down problems with low voltage.

I can understand that I think the starting point would be for any technician to realize that there's three components that we're dealing with here, one is the power supply. You have to have a power supply in the low voltage case. It's usually 24 volts. Then you have to have conductors to pass the power supply over and then you have to have a load to consume the power supply.

The load in the voltage circuit would be the coils in the contactors relays and circuit boards, and so forth. That gets it down to the very basics of what we've got to deal with right and then you just add in on low voltage for typical residential. You add in the switch which the control switch is generally the thermostat the thermostat or control switch is what I call a power passing device like a conductor, it's a device that can interrupt the power like a light switch on the wall. It only interrupts the power to the life of this.

The power is always available and it distributes the power to the lightbulb. When you request it may be part of the challenge for newer technicians is that they think of this to complexly. Is that sort of what you're saying, if you break it down to the simplicity, it may be a little easier for them to get their heads around how to solve these problems? That's the way all problems are: you have to get them down to the lowest common denominator and work back up and you're thinking here with low voltage is I have a 24 volt power supply and it doesn't always run 24 volts, it's usually higher than 24 volts, Because the voltage in is usually say, 115 or 230 volts, it's usually high, so the 24 volt power supply can easily run 27 28 volts. When I go to a low-voltage site.

The first thing I do is take the fan switch on the thermostat and turn it to fan on. The fan is controlled by a 24 volt coil or a 24 volt relay. So if the fan starts up automatically, no, I have 24 volts. So that's the start.

Point just check out and see if you have 24 volts, if the fan doesn't start, you go straight to the control transformer and see. If you have output, you may have output from the 24 volt transformer next, in line normally would be a fuse in the 24 volt line check that fuse. If you've got power on the outlet end of the fuse to the common on the transformer, then you have power to the field circuit. Now we're working with the power passing device, the conductor we've got to follow it and see where it's supposed to go.

Look for what is it supposed to energize, for example, if it's the fan relay go to the fan relay and see if 24 volts in fact is being delivered to the fan relay coil, if it isn't, the problem is somewhere between the fuse and the fan relay. Why are broken or what happy you said, something there that I want to address, and that is you said between your measuring voltage measuring power from a point to the common side of the transformer, and what I see a lot of technicians do consistently is, instead of Measuring to the common side of the transformer they measure the ground correct. So would you mind addressing that? A little bit most 24 volt control circuits have no relationship with ground. Some 24 volt control circuits are grounded on one leg.

For example, if you get to the furnace, you say: well, I'm just going to use the 24 volt hot line to the frame of the furnace. That sounds good, but suppose the ground wire or the what we call this. Normally the common wire from the transformer to the power consuming device is normally a straight run. It don't connect straight from the transformer through wiring to the power consuming device.

If that wire is broken and you're using the frame of the furnace as a frame of reference for voltage, you're going to miss something you're gon na miss the broken wire, because you will have potential voltage between the our wire, which is what we consider the hot Wire in our low-voltage circuit, you're going to have voltage between the our wire and the frame of the furnace, but you may not then have potential voltage from the our wire to the fan relay. Sometimes I think, technicians think of a coil, a load for a fan relay or for a contact relay or a reversing valve solenoid or whatever the load is that they're energizing, I think often they think of it in terms of one wire they think of the power Coming into it, the voltage coming into the load, but what they often forget is is that for a load to be energized, there has to be a path through. So it takes too action points and you brought up a really good point. There is that, if you measure to the chassis, you may not be taking into account a problem that might exist on the common side of that load.

That's going back to common, so you have to also ensure that that connection point from the other side of the load is making its way all the way back to the other side of the transformer, which is why, after I kind of walk my way through the Circuit I check for applied voltage across the load itself, so when you see voltage applied to the load, you see 24 volts applied, and maybe you have your other lead on common on the transformer. Then you go and measure across the load itself and see. Okay, do I have power applied here, because, if I don't it may be that that common wire is actually broken or open in between the load going back to the transformer itself, only in recent years have they grounded the common side of the transformer that was not Common years ago, so my habit has always been to use both wires on the power consuming device. Then you know you've got it exactly right, yeah, it's just a safer way to play it because, even though, on residential nowadays, it's gotten more common to ground common right.

More common to ground common, I'm gon na confuse everybody here I remember the first time early on in my career when I was working on a system with an ungrounded transformer, it was a Ledge, a natal unit and boy. I was trying to measure the ground and I was getting all kinds of craziness because of course, in that case, ground doesn't have a reference back to the transformer. If the comment site isn't grounded, then I remember it blew my mind when I took the comment off the transformer and I connected it right to ground and nothing happened, and then I lifted it back up and I took the hot side of the transformer and I Connected it right to ground and nothing happened and my mind was about blown because I didn't understand the fact that there really is no such thing truthfully of a dedicated hot and common side of a transformer. It's really just a path in between the two.

Unless you ground one side and then that dedicates it as a ground at that point, if you don't ground one side, you're liable to get 12 volts 3 volts 8 volts you're liable to get anything to ground from hot to ground. So one side establishes a place of reference from the common side of the track former round. The other conductor is the hot conductor, but the grounding method has not been used that many years I just reference it as a hot and a common wire at each power. Consuming device, I will not try to troubleshoot a low voltage or a high voltage circuit with a meter unless it has alligator clips.

That's a personal preference to me. I clip one alligator clip on and then I've got my hands and sight free to probe with the other one. So if I were probing a low voltage circuit, I would probe on the first power consuming device that might be the fan relay. I clip the alligator clip on the common side of the device and then use the other probe to probe the hot side.

I've seen a lot of technicians go out and try to troubleshoot with what you'd call needle points on their probes. It takes both hands to troubleshoot like that and both eyes to see what you're doing I like to have my hands-free. So I clip on one side of my meter to the power consuming device and use the other side, the sharp probe, to look for where the voltage may have dropped off. It's a really good point, because I see one of the other.

I see a technician either using two alligator clips or two needle probes and what you're saying, which is exactly the same thing I do now. I didn't always do this, but in recent years I've started doing this where I you take my black lead and I keep the alligator clip on that one and then my red lead. I use the needle point on and so then that way I can kind of walk my way through the circuit, which is excellent and also another thing that I want to point out here is that's also a really nice way if you're testing this say a safety Circuit in a gas furnace, where you have multiple switches in series where they sort of daisy chain into one and out of the other into the next. That way, you can clip your alligator clip to common all the way at the end.

On the other side of the power consuming device uncommon, and then you can walk your way through that circuit, starting at the beginning red coming out of the transformer and walk your way through and see where you lose your 24 volts or 28 volts. Wherever the case may be, and then that indicates to you the point at which the circuit was broken, which is a very convenient way and in my book it's easier to do it that way than to go through and start oming out, every single individual device and Kind of get you in the ballpark, absolutely, let's define some terms here. I think a lot of technicians get confused and start calling everything a short-circuit. So what we're describing here, you're losing voltage somewhere and say well, I've got a short somewhere so address that a pure short is when you fastened the hot wire to the common wire.

That's a short, a resistance, of course, between the hot wire and the common wire. Would be a coil, a coil should have five ohms of resistance in it. Let's just I'm just picking a number here, all right suppose that call is designed to have five ohms of resistance, but it only had three ohms of resistance. That is what I call a shunt.

Some of the coils are shorted together in creating less resistance in the coil, which is going to create more current, draw that the transformer infused probably can't handle. For example, most residential systems use a 40 vote, amp transformer, maybe a 60 volt amp transformer for bigger phone systems, a 40 be a transformer, both amp transformer. If you run it through owns law, you discover that about a 14 and a half 15 ohm resistance in the circuit will create a current draw of about 1.6 amps. If you take that 15 home circuit and have one of the coils shunted a little bit to where it's has less resistance in it, that means the overall circuit will have less than 15 ohms resistance, so it may go up to 2 ohms of resistance, for example.

Well, the current flow in the conductor is going to go up exponentially and you're going to have a blown fuse so automatically. What I would do personally is, I would go to the transformer. I would take both wires off of the transformer and I would put an ohm meter across there and see what the resistance is in the entire field circuit, with as many things on it turned on us, I could get on turned on if the resistance is less Than 15 ohms, I know that my current is going to be more than 1.6 and the fuse is probably a two amp fuse. It's going to start approaching blowing that fuse if the ohms resistance in the field circuit reduces down to about 12 ohms you're gon na have a 2 amp draw in the field circuit.

That's approaching blow the fuse. If the resistance in the field circuit drops down to 10 ohms of resistance, you're going to have about a 2.4 amp current flow through the fuse, it's going to blow the fuse. Now, where did I get that number? I divided 10 ohms into 24 volts, the nominal voltage, and I come out with about 2.4 amps of current drop. Now we are dealing with inductive loads magnetic loads, normally in the field circuit.

These figures are not ironclad because we're not dealing with pure resistance, but it's going to be very close to these numbers. Well, you make a good point there, and so let me add this is that that will give you a true amperage. That's just going to be the pool in amperage and once the inductive reactance kicks in once those relays are fully pulled in or that contact or that solenoid is engaged, then potentially it will drop a little bit and also another thing to consider is which circuits are Engaged when you're oming them out, so in some cases you may have only a couple circuits engaged you would have to go through and with a modern digital thermostat. A lot of those circuits are gon na be open.

When you do that initial test, without it being energized with an old mercury, bulb, thermostat or a manual type of control, then they would be energized depending on the setting. But what you can do is you can go through each circuit, one at a time say: you're working on a heat pump and you wanted to see what the reversing valve circuit would be. You could um through the orange circuit and then back to common and see what your total homes are. That's going to be the pullin amperage of that circuit once it's actually pulled in it won't draw quite as much once the inductive react, which is like inductive resistance gets kicking in, but it is a really good indication of what you're gon na see in that circuit And it can also give you a really good indication of which circuit is producing the challenge, which is a really nice thing.

So you can do that without even energizing. The circuit at all to see like you said, which circuit potentially has a shunt or which circuit potentially has a short or you can probably go to the outlet to the circuit board and take the are wire and the W wire and then you'll have the field Circuit without the circuit board in the circuit with the system, you can take your own reading from the outlet of the circuit board to the field circuit to the power consuming devices. However, the Ute today, I think the fan relays always built into the circuit board. Now I believe, right generally speaking yeah, and in that case you may have some challenges, because you may have a time delay that doesn't kick in right away or may have a time.

So there's some challenges there, which then brings us to if you're running, into a circumstance where you have a bellowing fuse, then you truly do have either a shunt or a short of some sort where you are pulling too many amps and I think a lot of Technicians they get this idea of short and they use it for everything. The initial thing we talked about where something's not turning on that should be. We call that an open, that's an open circuit, something's, not making connection, whereas here we have a fuse blowing or you're drawing high amperage on the low voltage control circuit. That is what we would generally put in the category of a short, and I like the language that you use there, a shunt on the load itself, but it's a situation in which there's too much current being drawn in the low-voltage circuit.

But I think technicians often they only look one place and so they're often only thinking about a short to ground when there's looking for a short, instead of looking at the entire circuit, the way that you're suggesting. So what other things would you suggest to a technician? Who's chasing down a problem with a fuse blowing. One thing that you can do is check the amperage in the circuit, see if, in fact the average is high, it will be a fuse that has a loose connection on one end: will overheat and trip a blow? A fuse, so you could make sure that the connections on the fuse are good and tight, and you can to check the amperage in the low-voltage circuit. If you suspect that everything low voltage circuit is good, except it still seems to be blowing a fuse check.

The amperage in the low-voltage circuit, by checking the amperage at the transformer outlet or you, can go to the room thermostat and take the thermostat off the sub-base and put what I call a tin wrap between the hot wire. There are wire and the fan wire. The are wire and the cooling wire they are wire and the heat wire at enwrap is, you would take your most amp majors, don't read down into very low amperage use and they don't read. Well, if you take a piece of thermostat wire, single strand, thermostat wire, wrap it ten times around your jaw's of your amp meter, it will amplify the reading by 10.

Now I've always kept one of those in my toolbox made up where I could just clip it on the thermostat on the our wire clip it on the G wire. Let's say to the fan: I could just clip it between those two terminals and now I've got a tin wrap run my jaws through the tin, wrap and see what come amperage I have. I could maybe isolate the high amp draw by going from circuit to circuit to circuit. Now, if you have a digital amp meter and it's a good one, the cheap ones won't do this.

I'm sure I don't know that for sure, but I'm betting on it. A good digital amp meter will give you the correct reading without putting an amplification on the reading to your jaws of your amp meter. Have you ever used the 10r app yeah? I've used it back in the good old days of sitting in heat, anticipator x'. We used to do it a little bit the way to look at that, because I think the younger Tech's are probably like what the heck is this all about.

Yeah, that's right, but it is a smart thing because even a digital meter, if you don't know the resolution of it, it may give you a display, but that doesn't mean what it's giving you is correct. That's right! The point here is is that, when you're measuring in the low voltage circuit, it's not going to be as accurate as what you're measuring on a high voltage circuit when you're measuring, say a compressor or condenser fan motor you're not going to get as accurate of a Reading, so what you do just grab a piece of thermostat wire like Bill saying, make sure it passes through the jaws 10 times. That's what you're counting, how many times it passes through the jaws, so you're, making a loop and then just take two little alligator clips and you can find alligator clip, set off crimp connection or you can just make a wire connection solder connection whatever, and so now You've got a loop of ten wraps with alligator clips on each end. Clip one two are take the other one and clip it to each control circuit that you're wanting to test, and now you get an amp rating.

You divide it by ten on your amp clamp and that's going to give you a very accurate look at what the amperage is for each low voltage circuit, which is a much smarter way of doing it. Then a lot of technicians. What you'll see when they're chasing a low voltage problem? Is they just keep blowing fuses? You see that pile of fuses sitting next to the furnace take a bushel basket of fuses with you. That's called a spark trician, there's two kinds of electricians: electricians that can run wire and electricians that can troubleshoot.

That's the spark trician that can't troubleshoot. It just creates enough Sparks and blows enough fuses and eventually finds what he's looking for. But what we're talking about is trying to do smart, troubleshooting and the 10r app amplifies your current reading by ten times so little bitty current reading. Small current readings are amplified about ten times.

So, for example, if it reads 12, you get a 12 amp reading. You divide it by 10 and you've got a 1.2 amp reading, which is very hard to resolve on some animators. Exactly another thing I would suggest if you are chasing a short, whether it's what I call a dead short, which is a direct short to ground or if it's an intermittent problem, either way when you first find a circuit and you're testing. It live like we're talking about here, where you actually are energizing different circuits, which is essentially the way that I recommend, if you're, really trying to find it difficult to find short, then you're gon na want to check one circuit at a time until you chase down The source of the problem, you can even get intermittent short circuits where it may be touching ground, but just slightly or common just slightly, and it can be really frustrating to chase down.

I suggest putting in I forget the exact name of it, but cefco makes a little resettable fuse. It's essentially a tiny little circuit breaker a little 3 amp, I suggest getting the 3 amp. Obviously we know a lot of furnaces. Have 3 amps a lot of fan.

Coils have 5 amps, but just for testing purposes, just use the 3m version and then plug that into the receptacle for the fuse, your typical fuse receptacle and then, instead of blowing fuses all the time, all your testing in the case that you do actually find it. You're gon na save fuses, and that way you can just reset it as you're testing, which is just a good general practice, especially as you're learning good point. Are there some practical things that you would suggest doing before you even start pulling out a meter as far as checking for low-voltage electrical problems so many times in the outdoor unit, where the contour the field wiring, is run, I'm gon na narrow it down to the Field wiring, they just crammed the wire in the control box. I would suggest straightening all the wires out and separating them, because you may have a touch point in those wires where the insulation on low voltage wiring is very thin and it doesn't.

You can take your fingernails, in fact, I've known people, that's the way they skinned the wire the ends on the wires. Take your fingernails and just jerk the insulation off the wire. So the insulation is very thin and it's easy to get to touch points in a pile of wire. I would pull the wire out and kind of separate the wires in the bundle even might suggest, shortening them down to a more decent length.

A lot of the smart trician from the alarm up, they just wire two-foot wire on there and cram the rest of it in the box. I don't really like that. I would take that two-foot wire and cut it down to six inches, make a decent nation one. You can follow the wiring through the box, but I would suggest just straightening out the wires a little bit and seeing if your ground goes away or if you're short or shunt goes away.

Otherwise, it's trace it down a little at the time and the technicians way it was kind of funny. When electronics started coming out. Electronic boards and systems boys, some of the technicians were coming to me. I was teaching school and everything well, you're, not teaching all this you're, not teaching, electronics and we're getting electronic boards, and I sit down and talk to them.

I said: look an electronic board is nothing but a switch. A hot wire goes in and a hot wire comes out and the ground wire goes straight through, or the common wire goes straight through the board. If you're confused with the board, take the connections loose from the outlet to the board, the board is nothing but a distributor of voltage. You don't need to know what transistors and all the capacitors and so forth that are on the board, because you're not gon na repair, the board anyway you're going to find out, does the board work or does the board not work if the door doesn't work, you're Gon na change the board out - it's all you can do so to try to simplify it.

You can disconnect from the outlet to the board and home check the field circuit with the outlet wires disconnected from the board. It's not with two wires. So it's not that complicated inputs, outputs in sequence of operation. That's it! You got to know where the inputs are, what the outputs are supposed to do and at what sequence they're supposed to do, whatever it is they're designed to do, and that's essentially it if you don't understand a sequence of operation, you might think a board is bad When really it's just in time, delay or fan off delay, or something like that, so you got to understand the purpose of it and how it's supposed to work and then other than that it's just inputs and outputs.

Like any other relay. I remember when compressors began to be hermetic fully hermetic in a can that eliminated a whole bunch of technicians, because they could look at a belt drive and they could tell what was going on, but they couldn't look at. A compressor can and figure out what was happening inside. They particularly couldn't troubleshoot the power supplied to it.

They couldn't understand three wires going into it. They couldn't understand common running start. They were used to a relay that they could hold in their hand getting any troubleshooting down to the lowest common denominator. The smallest thinking pattern is very important not over complicating things.

That's correct. We have a lot to know in this field and there is a lot to kind of carry around in our heads. But the truth is is that when we're on the job site, it's really just one problem at a time and if you get stuck and you need to look something up nowadays - that's a lot easier than it used to be because you can grab your phone or Tablet out of your pocket and look it up real quick. It makes it a lot easier while there is more to know nowadays - and maybe there used to be there's also a lot more resources by which you can find the information that you need to find.

But you always focus on one problem at a time and work your way through and eventually you'll find it through process of elimination, and I think low-voltage diagnosis, probably more than almost anything else. I guess if you got into real complex controls, maybe that would even be refrigeration controls or something but in air conditioning. Low-Voltage diagnosis is an area where just a good, solid process, step by step, walking your way through you'll be able to lick almost any problem. You come across unusually the bigger the system, the better the control layout, the smaller the system, the harder the control layout is to follow in industrial, commercial and industrial systems and every wire.

Every control comes out to a terminal board, can stand internal board and go one. Two three: four right down the terminal board in residential and light commercial, very light commercial. The wire goes off out into the unit somewhere goes through a control out. There then goes through another control somewhere in the unit.

They may go through another control, another safety and then back to the power consuming device, but it's not all displayed on a common terminal board, so the hardest electrical troubleshooting I've ever done is on residential. It's not on commercial, industrial, commercial, industrial. Make sure that it's easy to follow well, and I think what it is for a lot of guys who have done only residential. Is they end up in a commercial motor room and they look at this panel and there's just so many wires and they don't realize that they're organized there's a method there at least there's a method to the madness.

There's a lot of wires but, like you said, they're all marked and usually there's a good plan and schematics you can follow, which makes it a heck of a lot easier, a couple things that I would suggest as well. In addition to some of the things you mentioned by the way, a visual diagnosis, one thing that a lot of technicians do wrong when they're installing the wiring in the first place is they take the cable? They take the field cable and they ring around it with their wire strippers and they pull that outer sheath off. Well, they left a little nick down in there and a lot of times. Those can cause a short in-between common and the powered conductors, and so that's one thing to always look for is: is there a little Nick's right at the base of where the cable casing was stripped back and then another thing I would always suggest is to look For any rub out points inside the equipment itself, because in a lot of cases, manufacturers aren't as careful as I wish they were and how they route pressure switches, say inside of a condensing unit or how they route, even sometimes inside of gas furnace, how they route.

The wires go into the safeties and in some cases they may bump against either a copper line, that's vibrating or possibly even a surface that could get hot and over time those can rub out and cause short circuits and what I always do before I even ever Grab tools, as I look at all the obvious things I look at is the casing coming off of a control wire outside, where maybe someone hit it with a weed whacker, I'm like you mentioned inside the cabinet itself, did they jam a bunch of wires in there? I'm gon na go through and just look at all the obvious steps before I start going through and diagnosing with a meter. So that way I know what I'm dealing with and a lot of times. You can find a pretty obvious problem, a visual check before you even get your tools. That's a good idea back to that ringing.

A wire, solid wire should never be skinned or the insulation should never be cut back with a knife by running a ring around it. It makes a beautiful connection, I mean, makes a beautiful look to the insulation, but when you run a ring or knife around the wire and make a ring, you make a ring on the wire itself. Now you have a piece right there that is very fragile and can vibrate and break you should always skin wire with a knife. By pulling the bleed along the wire, don't wring the wire with knife.

A dull knife is the best way to skin wire, not a sharp knife and I've always carried a razor sharp knife early in my career, I did just a boatload of startups. I would go in and Commission the equipment after the installers would install it. So I got really quick at making a lot of wiring connections actually started out as an electricians apprentice too. So I did a lot of it there and what I learned is is the jacket of a typical thermostat wire, typical 18 gauge 8 wire, for example.

A really easy way to do this is to snip into the top of the wire straight in, and then you can peel it open and then pull the little string. Some of them have a string, and sometimes you can just use an unused conductor, and then you can peel back that jacket and then just always cut off the part that you first snipped into so that way you know that none of them are compromised. When you have enough wire to work with that's a great way of doing it, and then I always just use a good pair of Klein wire strippers with the proper sized indentations on them for the wire that I'm stripping. That's why I always do it, but you just want to make sure that, no matter what your method is, that there's just no chance whatsoever that you could compromise either the insulation and a place that it's concealed or the wire itself like you're mentioning you don't want To snip into the outside of that wire, you don't want to cut it.

Otherwise, you do compromise the conductor, especially nowadays with low voltage controls, communicating controls, it's even more critical. If you compromise that wire in anyway that conductor in any way it can result in poor communication, I appreciate it bill. Thank you again for everything you do for those of you out there who enjoy what bill has to say. I would definitely suggest that you go out and a lot of technicians out there have never read the refrigeration and air conditioning technology manual.

I would suggest that you go out and do that and real quick. I know you still write for the ACH our news. What is the name of that column, and where can people find that BTU buddy you can google BTU buddy, google, BTU, buddy and you'll find it there, and you have to be a member with the ACH our news. I think, in order to see it, but it's well worth it.

I think people have copped off so many articles and put them on the internet. That, if you are a member of the news or if you're a subscriber to the news, you can log into their site, use their label off the magazine, type that on there and you're in their site. And you can then go back and any of the articles. In the past and there's also a book published with the first 58 BTU buddy articles in it, and it is also sold by the news very good.

Those of you who listen know that I also write a column on occasion for the news called the nerdy technician. So you can see that on the same website as well as Bill's BTU buddies to go check out the news there greats resource for the industry. So thank you so much bill. I appreciate your time.

I appreciate you continuing to give back to the industry you're a scholar and a gentleman. Thank you and thank you for all. You do for industry, providing these training podcasts. That's great! Hey, thanks again for listening to the HVAC school by mass means.

A lot means a lot to me personally get a lot of nice emails and messages on Facebook and so on and so forth, and I and I do appreciate I want you - know every single one of you believes a review on iTunes. I read it. It means a lot it makes my day you get a good review if I'm having a bad day. Sometimes oh I'll go on iTunes, another scroll through this to look at the reviews, it's kind of sad honestly, it's it's actually a little person.

I don't know why. I just told you that anyway. Well, that's something that you should know about in case you're interested is that we do have a store now HVAC our school website, HBC our school comm. You go to the store just a bunch of t-shirts, mugs, stickers, things like that and have a couple of kind of inside jokes of the industry that I put up there and also did a bit a logo that maybe looks a little bit like a logo that You've seen before it says, HVAC cooler than rocket science.

I kind of like that. I think it's a cool one anyway, so if you haven't seen any of that, maybe you want to go. Take a look at that, but either way I appreciate you and, as always, you can listen to the other podcast and the network. By going to blue-collar roots comm, I do have a national electrical code and electrical tips podcast coming up for electricians and those who are interested in the electrical code, so that is now that is now official and I'm excited about that.

So that should be coming up in the next couple weeks. This is the official drumroll announcement of that it's gon na be called electrical code and tips, the electrical code and tips podcast, and it's going to be with a couple of people who work with me. I have a several licensed electricians work in our business and one of them's, together than in the fill bar he's a really smart guy and has good solid knowledge of the electrical code. He's a master electrician and, like I said, we've got a couple.

Other licensed master electrician's at kalos, and so we're gon na be talking with them about some some tips and tricks, as well as the NEC NEC code. So I think I think it's a good good time anyway enough about that. One thing I did want to tell you: you know cuz, you guys. You know that I have a lot of kids and my wife's kind of getting sick of it.

She's been pregnant more than not pregnant and she's number 10s coming in July, so that'll be the end of that last time around. It didn't go well because every time when she wasn't when she was in labor, I just kept telling your dad jokes to try to cheer her up, and it just did not make her happy. I think it must have been the delivery. Okay, we'll talk to you.

Next time on the HVAC school podcast.