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Look for the search bar and search it right there. The exhume line, the second flame free refrigerant, fitting from Parker reduced labor cost by sixty percent, with no brazing no flame had no fire spotter discover how subhan can help you be more efficient and productive visit. Zoom want comm for more information, and now your host, the man who once used too much coal cleaner and took the coating right off a Lennox coil Brian law. I am Brian, and this is the HVAC school podcast and I am nothing if not an ambitious, cleaner or at least early on in my career.

I started my first job as a technician. When I was 17, I'm in technician loosely loosely a technician. I guess I was in my my own truck when I was 17 and I did a lot of maintenance and I really like to use the the coil cleaner just to see the bubbles, and that was definitely a mistake, especially in the case of that particular Lennox Unit, but I learned my lesson from then on and today I really don't suggest that that guys use cleaner unless they need to so anyway. Today on the podcast, we are going to be talking with James Bowman James, been on the podcast before James.

Is the National Training Manager national training? Guy goes around the country, training people for rector seal and I, like James, he's a real down-home guy and he was talking at the HVC excellence conference about the need for condensates, which is even on ductless systems, which kind of makes sense. I mean you know anything that makes water and you need to have some way to to take care of that and prevent it from draining all over everything if the drain line or drain pan are to back up, but there's actually some interesting codes in the International Mechanical Code about this, and so we're going to talk a little bit about the International Mechanical Code and what it has to say about condensates, which is kind of say drains all that kind of stuff. So today is really a conversation about condensate switches, which seems like a pretty simple conversation, and I guess it is, but there are some nuances there. So here we go James Bowman from rector seal.

The first thing I wanted to talk about. I think I think the easy we'll start with the easy conversation and we'll get into the more difficult ones once you're warmed up. First of all, are you prepared to talk about the whole float switch thing yeah talk about whatever you want over about yeah. Well, I have three things on my list.

Look remember what they are. No I'll see that prove your preparation here that showed your commitments to the HVAC school podcast, James, nothing, but complete commitment and dedication, but I do have iced tea. So that's good! You have a! I have iced tea, I was gon na say I filled her up. Yes, I'm drinking, so I'm sitting here at my desk here at a hvac school HQ surrounded by test, instrumentation buzzing and humming.

All in the background. You can hear it, but in front of me I've got my very off-brand, not so great sweetie, but I'm drinking in your honor. So I hope you appreciate it. That'll work, mine's, probably a mixture anyway of stuff.

What kind of stuff we talk in here like well? Vodka, I'm something no I'm supposed to cut back on the caffeine. You know my cardiologist has informed me of that, and so we came to an agreement, but I also have to stay hydrated, so I drink a lot of decaffeinated tea, but I drink some caffeinated. So it's a mixture, I'm glad we have some caffeinated. So that way you don't fall asleep on me like try to do it, go out to lunch now boy, I was it.

I what to watch and there buddy of mine called said: hey I'm bill for lunch. So it's like: okay, let's go, we had chicken gizzards, so yeah, I'm a little sleepy. You get on getting there right. I love really that's something I have never indulged in and we actually of a place that serves them right down.

The street called crispy fried chicken. Oh mom and pop grody little place, you know grease on the floors and they make some they make some good stuff, but I've never tried the chicken gizzards. Of course you know, I don't even know if I'm a real southerner, because I don't know if I told you this, but the first time I ever ate pork rinds was just a couple months ago. Yeah.

I don't okay. Well, that's good! Well, I thought you. I thought you're gon na rip me for being a fake southerner. Well, you know I was not born here or raised here.

I just got here as fast as I could. I was actually raised in central Indiana, but almost Sam brought me to Fort Hood. In my own age, myself, here 89, but I've been in the South ever since Florida and Texas, ever since 89 God's country and the best places to be, if you're in the air-conditioning business. True true, true first thing I want to talk about with you is I didn't realize how complicated we'll call it float, switch ology condensate switch.

Ology. Is it's quite an interesting science, so I'm gon na kind of guide you because you let me know that you didn't come prepared with your codebook in front of you. But the first thing that I want to address is there something that you brought up at the HVC excellence conference, which I thought was a good point. Is this whole thing that every type of air conditioner requires some sort of condensate overflow switch, and that includes ductless systems? So would you care to talk about that a little bit? Well, the code that's being referenced.

There is, you know I'm gon na paraphrase here. If you have a coil, a down flow coil or any other coil that does not have a secondary drain line or port and it's not feasible to install a drain pan. Then you have to have a sensor inside the primary drain line, or should we drink paying? Excuse me so if I've got a damn shot, rooftop unit, there's no secondary port and there's no place to put a drain pan, but if it overflows it goes straight down into the building. So you have to have a sensor in the pan.

If I got a mini-split hanging on a wall, you don't have a secondary port, and where do you put the pan, you don't so you have to have a sensor inside the primary drain, pan yeah that would look pretty awkward, completing an auxilary pan underneath a ductless System, I've seen it people, but that looks great, especially like like if you had a cassette unit or something that looked especially good, you're just hanging right underneath it so I'll read the code because I'm looking at it right here - and this is so the first thing That I want to mention is that, whenever we're referring to these codes generally referring to the IMC, the International Mechanical Code and the International Mechanical Code is not the law nationwide, but it is widely adopted, and so no matter where you live, if code is in force, I mean there are some places that don't even have I mean no mechanical licensure for that matter, but in general, if there's a code, that's in force, it's usually negative of the International Mechanical Code. So, even if this isn't the code where you're at it's likely that at some point in the near future, this will be the code. So did I say that right there that I miss anything. Mmm no refers to the IMT yeah.

Some states are very proactive and keep up pretty quick other states. Maybe you know the code cycles every three years, so the current code is 2015. The 2018 is supposed to come out September. I think, is when they're gon na start selling it.

So some states are still on 2006 and then some states will actually use either alongside the IMC or as a standalone. The uniform codes, which is a different code organization, called I at MOU, and you know some of the codes. There are a little different in there. Less detailed and give a lot more more often, it says, or per the manufacturers packs.

That's what they're saying I'm my mind would like all sitting on that actual term authority having jurisdiction all right. So you know, instead of saying you have to have this it'll, give a brief description and then followed up with or per the authority having jurisdiction. So it gives a lot more leeway to the code official and then, of course, you got states like Florida who will base their codes off of the ICC codes, but they adopt it as the Florida Building Code and they go through and do a lot of amendments. So, even if you're looking at the international code, we still have to go.

If for your area, you have to go to the Florida Building Code and see what actually was adopted and amended for your state right. You have to actually look at the sort of mechanical code is what I got this big book sitting on my shelf right now, but by and large, if you knew the IMC, the International Mechanical Code, you're gon na, usually be pretty close, and this is different for Those of you who are used to the National Electrical Code, the NEC, put out by NFPA, that's essentially nationally recognized so electricians - are it's much more nationally recognized. It really is the authority on the subject, whereas the IMC, it is a authoritative work, but it isn't enforceable. It's not enforceable nationally, every in the we'll state, every individual municipality in some areas has to take it and say what we're gon na accept it in full or we're going to amend it or whatever the case may be so.

Okay kind of I think they kind of addresses this want to read this code. I just want to say that that you know even in Florida - and I haven't read the Florida version of this, which is kind of silly well, I haven't, but this is gon na be widely enforce across the country, and you know you may not be enforced where You are, but in general this is gon na be what most people adopt and the code is 3:07 dot. 23.1. That's kind of easy to remember.

I guess on down flow units in all other coils, they do not have secondary drain or provisions to install a secondary or auxiliary drain pan, which means it doesn't have a auxiliary drain pan with its own drain or a secondary port, an auxiliary port on the other Primary drain, pan a water level monitoring device shall be installed inside the primary drain. Pan this device shall shut off the equipment, served in the event that the primary drain becomes, restricted device is installed and the drain line shall not be permitted, and it's that last bit there that gets kind of confusing. So I want to see if you are willing to address that, which is that device is installed in the drain line, shall not be permitted. Well, in that case, what happens is, and the reason that says it on that particular is.

If you have a stoppage, a lot of stoppages are in the pan itself. Well, let's take mini splits. For example, mini splits may sometimes use a pump and the pump has an interlocking secondary or safety circuit. The purpose of that is not to protect for property damage.

It's simply to turn off the unit in case of a pump failure and many times what happens is the filter or the reservoir on these things get plugged up and the pump never knows that the units making water so it never comes on it, never shuts it Off and you have overflow and that's located in the drain line, so that's the purpose of that. How many times do we go up on rooftops and you've got stoppages, maybe in a or something you know why they put that in there for rooftops. I really don't know, but that's one of the main reasons is junk in the drain. Pan will stop it up, so the thinking is.

You want some sort of protection that, regardless of whether it's the drain line that backs up or the drain pan that gums up, that it's gon na shut the unit off, that's the point and if you install so let's look at an application here. Let's say you have a situation where you have an r/t you and some guy somebody takes a float, switch and wires it in in the drain coming out of the RTO and just takes that and wires it into the Union. They say: that's. 24 volts.

It's fine! It's not gon na be okay right, so they just leave that there well that's not code, because it's in the primary drain - and there is no other secondary provisions like an auxilary drain pan or a secondary drain, or anything like that. So that's not allowable in a ductless system. You can't just rely on the float switch in the reservoir. If you have a pumped application, you can't rely just on that, because if the actual drain, pan itself gummed up and started overflowing that wouldn't prevent property damage, and so what they're saying is without redundancy, you know: you're gon na have damage a lot faster.

Let's take the Florida market, the Florida market is very big on up flow in closets, with no secondary drain line or secondary drain. Pan well probably more property damage in the state of Florida from condensate than anywhere else in the world, because there's no redundancy if the clog doesn't trip the switch or the switch fails, there's no secondary pan and hence you have property damage. So, by having a switch in the primary pan, it's gon na react a lot faster than anywhere else that you would have a sensor. So you know hopefully it'll react fast enough and prevent damage.

So what the code isn't saying is it's not saying that if you have a let's say you have an up flow, so I'm in Florida, so we work on these units every day. You've got an up flow. It's got a secondary port on the drain pan and that secondary port is either higher than the primary drain, or it's got like a hole drilled in it. Some sort of a dam built up in it, but some way that it only trips if the water in the pan raises, and then it flows into that secondary port.

I mean we all know what this is like throughout. The country is pretty typical stuff. If you install your flow switch in that secondary port, that's essentially installing it in the drain pan that port is just an extension of the drain pan, it's just giving you a place that you can install one. So that is an acceptable method.

According to you know, 307, any you back up to 307 point two point: three: it actually has four ways of complying with the code before we get down and talk about down flow and coals, the don't ever. These are typical unitary equipment, so the first being an exhilarating pain with a separate drain under the coil discharging too conspicuous point of disposal. So that would be like the olds you have this secondary drain pan and then you have a drain connected to that and that drips up above a window in the soffit or something so the guard see that is dripping and that section lays out the minimum requirements For drain pans, the thicknesses of the material, the size of the pan has to be minimum inch and a half no less than three inches, then the size of the unit, the thickness of the steel and the plastic. If it's a plastic pan the next go down to section two, it tells us a separate overflow drain line shall be connected to the drain, pan, which is provided with the equipment, which means that you take your secondary port and actually pipe it out.

It's one acceptable method. Basically, it's one acceptable method. Now, once again, this is in the international code. Now, once you get locally, some of these apply.

Some of these don't apply, depends on your local amendments. So then the third is an axillary drain, pan without a drain line, but with a switch in the drain. Pan yeah, you got a unit sitting in an attic, usually horizontals secondary drain, pan laying underneath it and a switch in that secondary drain pan. So if it fills up the trips running up having a shot back out like fifty gallons of water, so here in Texas, you have to have the pan pipe down in the switch which mail sense, which makes sense unless you're a location where there's just no way To pipe it, you know further down area where water it have to go uphill to run out from a pan.

In those cases, though, allow it and then the fourth is in the drain line, the overflow drain line the primary drain line or in the primary pan, like the secondary port. I believe Florida has amended that to delete the section that says the primary drain line. I think they allowed up in the pan. It'll be everything else for some reason they don't allow inside the primary drain line.

Wait a second! So, under what circumstances could you only have a float switch in the primary drain line? Well, I'll read I'll, read the section: ok, it says a water level detection device conforming to UL 508, shall be provided that will shut off the equipment served in the event of the primary drainage block. This device shall be installed in the primary drain line. The overflow drain line or in the equipment supply drain pan located at a point higher than the primary drain line connection and below the overflow room of such pan of a primary drain line connection: oh gosh, that's confusing as heck. So what that space is saying.

Is you can put the switch in the primary drain line in the secondary drain line or like an SS in the secondary port of the primary pan? That's what that section allows, but I believe that the majority of Florida does not allow the primary drain line. I'm just confused by about what that means, then, in 307 3.1, when it says on down fleet units and other coils that do not have secondary drain and provisions. I don't because at that point you're only dealing with down flow units and all of the calls that do not have a secondary drain or pan. So on.

Okay, I see we don't have a secondary port roof top packaged units have a primary port, but no secondary port, okay, and so, if it has alright, so the only case that you could put it according to the IMC, the only case you could put it in The primary drain pan the switch, is, if you have some other secondary method like a secondary drain pan or a secondary drain line. In addition to that, then correct got it okay. That makes sense all right. You indicated me now, while we're on this section.

Let's go back to this requirement of UL 508. This was added in the 2006 code cycle and to this day there are still lots of switches being sold that either do not comply with 508 or are not listed to 508 and that I find kind of funny. I mean in a way the easiest way. You know, of course, you all listings.

The standards are, you know hundred pages long, but I'm gon na boil it down into a sentence. Take a float, switch apply your 24 volts to it and drop it in a bucket of water. If nothing shorts out, it probably complies with ul 508. If something shorts out it doesn't comply with you all 508.

That's the easiest way! Yeah I mean that makes sense. Like I remember, some of the older float switches that were out there that had these you know like traditional micro switch, is almost on them. You know, then, those you would think wouldn't comply because they were they have these kind of open and they don't but they're still being sold. Even though you know they don't comply and haven't been complying since 2006 and the other part of it is, there are companies that sell flow switches or condensate switches and sensors that, instead of actually paying UL to test them and getting the listing they put on their Tag conforms to UL 508, but it's not listed so right.

You know what they're basically saying is. Is trust me. You know we didn't ask a third party to verify our claims, so trust me, oh and by the way, yeah we're a little bit cheaper. So you know there's another, you know, but James, I'm sure they did to drop it in the bucket a water test, I'm sure they did it, I'm sure they did and it's very possible probable that when they, if they sent to UL and they had them tested That they would pass and they would get their listing.

It just costs money to do that so constant money to play by the rules. Doesn't it yeah? You know all of us contractors know how that is. Oh yes, so I always find that interesting and when I've asked code officials about it, they're like well, if the manufacturer says, but yet other inspectors for other products will say, I got to see your ul listing or your all sticker. Is this one of those things? That's just kind of ignored by inspectors.

Well, in this particular case, it's a standard that makes sense. I mean you know you want your condensate. Overflow switch to be as reliable as possible and you don't want it to be affected by moisture and water. I mean clearly it sits in that environment.

So if you have a drink, that's backing up, I mean I've seen it me to the back up and back up right up into the micro switch itself. You don't want the thing to fail just because of some moisture. Well, that retirement that requirement was added because of the sensitive electronics. You know we're basically taking 24 volts and connected to a very expensive circuit board and we're sticking it down in water.

So that's why the listing is there? That's the Rick! That's why the requirements there is to protect all that sensitive electronics that are in these systems now cool. So one thing that I want to talk about - I don't know if you we haven't talked about this beforehand, so you may tell me that you don't like my way but or you don't like the way that I address this issue. So it tell me if I say anything that is offensive here, but the one thing that I get a lot is the controversy and I wrote an article about this that surrounds how to pipe a octillery float when it's in the auxiliary drain line. So how to pipe it out of that auxiliary port and how to position it? And so you have two camps.

You have the one camp that swears that if you pipe it straight out the front of the unit that it's not going to work, and then you have the other camp that swears that that's the only way to do it and if you pipe it around the Side and drop the level down lower that it's not gon na work and my stance on it is is that, depending on the unit, that's how you need to make that discernment. You know, and I shared a picture in the article that I did where there's two different units and the levels between the two, the depth of the drain pan and the level difference between the auxilary in the primary, are pretty radically different between these two units. Some of the less expensive brands out there often they'll, just take the secondary port and they'll just drill like a hole towards the top of it and in some of those applications you may run into a circumstance where the drain pan overflows before the float Rises. High enough to shut the unit off when it's piped straight out the front, the first thing I want to ask is: have you ever? Have you ever seen cases like that? Absolutely, in fact, so what happened is over the last few years, several manufacturers have started redesigning their drain pans, particularly in the vertical application.

Okay, the primary reason is, is to try to not allow any standing water in the drain pan whatsoever. All the water would drain out during the off cycle and part of it is to cut cost. You know, because, let's face it, you pay for plastic by weight. So you know if you've got a pan, that's got an extra half an inch height all the way around it then you've increased the cost of that pinion.

It has nothing to do with the design it just has to do with how much the weight of the plastic you put into it and you're making millions of units. So we actually a couple of years ago change the float on the SS too, to accommodate one of these manufacturers that had made that change. Since then, two other manufacturers have been aware of have also made that change and we're running into that as well. On those and a lot of people forget, you know, installers love them.

I was an installer. You got to read the instructions, guys plain and simple. You got a test before you leave the job. All safety switches are adjustable, 100 % of all of our safety switch models are adjustable if you need to adjust it to lower the float, because you have one of those pans.

Please do if you need to pour some water in, as we point out in the instructions before you leave the job, to verify that it actually works with your application. Please do that as well. It will save you problems later. So the answer to both of those methods are yes, do either one as you need to do if you've got one of those type of pans that is so small that you're finding your switch is not sensitive enough move the switcher around the corner drop it down.

A half an inch or you know if you've got a pan, that's not as sensitive or you know, holds a little bit of water. You want to stick the ssj2 right in the front of it. Do that I mean it's not a cookie cutter approach right. You want to verify you want it.

You wan na make sure that you install the properly and you want to invest, Auld it in such a way that it's gon na function once that drain pan fills up with water and regardless of where the blockage happens. That's what's gon na occur whether the blockage is in the pan or in the line. The pan is gon na start filling up with water. You want to make sure that it flows out that secondary port and ends up filling up that switch high enough that it trips the float.

I mean it's really simple: there's an it's not rocket surgery as they say, but you know another thing that is often overlooked with con. Sa switches is well, let's think about eaters. Okay, with gas heaters, propane natural gas, fuel oil, even electric heaters, you have safety switches. You have limits roll outs, you know, and oil there's a few more in every fall.

When you go to do your heater check, you test those safeties many times. I ask guys what safeties do you take in the spring when you go and do your air conditioning preseason well? Hence that's one of the reasons called a safety switch because it's a safety right test, the switch make sure don't wait until you have an overflow and as in the case of Florida, the snowbirds are gone for the summer and they don't know for three months that They've had water overflowing that they had a problem test your safety yeah. I mean it's not that hard to do and, and that is actually something that we practice is testing the float. I mean where we are, though, it's so mission-critical, there's nothing worse than having that call in the middle of the night, where there's water pouring through someone's ceiling, because they owe a second.

You know an air handler sitting in the second floor and it's backed up float. Didn't work for whatever reason, and in most cases when the float doesn't function is usually because of installation issue. You know where we, you know someone, you know pitched. It was running around the side and someone pitched the pipe up because they were like.

Oh, this thing keeps you know. This is the most annoying one that I hear. So this is one that I just want everybody to stop saying where they they have it connected to the odds of the report, and then they say that well, it's going downhill and that's why it's filling with water? No! It's filling with water, because water is coming over the day, I'm on the auxilary report and ending up in that pipe. The only way for it to come in that auxilary, port and end up in that pipe is if the water levels getting too high.

So the pitch of the drain, going downward away from the unit is not going to result in water in that pipe. If water is in that pipe, it's an it's another problem, and I have guys argue with me about this all the time, but it's it's really a pretty basic stuff, you know and with the prevalence of ECM motors now I find very often that the problem is Static pressure right, you know they get too high stay. They slap in a new system on an existing duct system. Without a value you know, checking their static and now you're trying to move so much air.

Through this thing, you've got all kinds of things happening and coop, including water. You know being blown off or sucked off in landing places. It shouldn't be landing, alright, yeah what tends to happen. One of two main issues, one is, is that sometimes the primary drain will lose the seal of its trap, and so then it's sucking air back in the primary drain, which results in water going in the secondary and then another thing that can happen is whenever you Have really high static? You have air, bypassing all sorts of places that it's not with decent velocity, that it's not supposed to bypass and all these little air currents can result in water ending up in that secondary drain.

It's not just the static pressure itself that causes a lot of guys to kind of have this vision in their head of. Oh well, there's all this suction, and so it's just sucking into the auxiliary drain. It's in fact that there's all just air that's going around! All that every crack and cranny and crevice, which can result in you, know water being either flipped up. You know kind of flicked up into the secondary drain, because the water is almost getting little waves and Eddie's in it or in some cases you know you can actually lose your primary trap depending on that, depending on the design of the trap design of the system.

In fact, if you look at like carriers specs, it will show you as you get up above and most, and I think it shows up above point 7 or 0.8 it'll start to say that the system will have a hard time, maintaining a trap seal. Once your static pressure gets above that you've got it, you hit the nail right on the head all right so well. Thank you for saying so I appreciate that I always need to. I always need the emotional affirmation, I'm sort of a sensitive little fella, you've, probably caught on to that yeah.

You know I sometimes twist something or heard something patting myself on the back. You know yeah. Sometimes you heard your own back trying to patches on the back. All right, so what products does rector steel make in the you know, because the one thing that I think very few technicians practice is the installation of a float switch in the primary drain.

So lots of guys will use pan switches in secondary drains. Lots of guys will use them, sometimes even in the primary drain, even in cases that isn't quite in compliance with this code and a lot of times, we'll use them on the auxilary port, but they see very few people putting them in the main drain. So what are some of your favorite products for that? Well, the SS one is the most popular for the primary drain line. The safety switch SS one that also complies with another section of the code that says that you have to have a means of clean outs without cutting the drain line, because the SS one itself is a clean-out pork and it comes with a little Andy clean-out tool.

We have an easy trap product as well that easy T two to six. I think I'm going to look at it just because I've only got. You know 1,500 products that I can't remember. The two to five is the equivalent of the SS one, and the primary difference is between the two.

Is this as one as a reed switch? The easy t 225 has a micro switch, but all 100 % of our switches, whether it's a safety switch. An aqua guard or an easy trap are all you will listed a 508, so they're all designed in such a way that they've got that extra safety visor on there. Okay, so that's the primary drain, which is what I said, but not what I meant to say. So what about the primary drain pan? What are some of the products that you're well, the SS 3 is small enough to fit in a lot of them.

Then we have our SS 500 is designed specifically for rooftop primary drain pans. Does this plenum-rated it's an electronic switch? It will also fit in the primary of a unitary for our mini splits. We have the SS 610 II that will work with with mini splits until that goes right down into the pan right in the primary and two different ways to attach it. You've got a little clip that clips onto the coil with a little plastic yeah.

I don't even know what you call the thing: it's just a little piece of plastic. Do things and drop it down into the pan, or we also have a very small clip that if you've got the space that you can clip it onto the edge of the pan, what else do we have? We've got first off the both of those both of those used like almost it's an electronic switch. But it's almost like two little electrode points that when the water level rises, it bridges between those two electrodes and then that's what trips it right. Yes, correct! In a beauty of our safety switch electronic switches, we actually have three LEDs on them, because one of the things you know you've you've had these calls.

I've got this nuisance trip. I've got to remain, yulie reset it or you show up and she's like. Oh, it came back on check it out anyway, so we've got a red light that says: hey. I got a drain problem.

We got to shut off green light. It's not a drain problem, don't have a shutoff yellow light. I've had a drain problem sometime in the last four days. I've got it.

I'd say that is nice, so you got a slow drain. You see the ill light. You know you got to check it. We have a couple of 3180 in awkward Gord.

3180. That's the one that's also for rooftops. This is actually you know down in your area. There's a lot of residential high-rises up and down the coast of Florida that use water source heat pumps you know into in those units and water source heat pumps are very unique in their design, so putting or switching them can be a little challenging they're packaged units.

So they only have a primary port that, on a secretary pork, most of those pans are only one inch tall. But yet, if you have an overflow, it might not just affect you, it might collect 11 floors below you thanks. So the 30 180 is actually the perfect switch for those water source heat pumps in those high-rises, because you have two sensors. One of the sensors is a small clip that will fit in the primary pan.

The second one is larger, but you can put it inside the unit and the bottom of the unit on the floor near the floor. You know something like that, so you got a lot of flexibility there, plus it's plenum rated, which is a requirement when it's in the in the air flow. So in a package unit where it's inside the unit, the requirement is as plenum-rated god. I don't have an easy trap version that goes inside the primary pan.

I guess the main thing is just to wreck. It protects to recognize that these products exist on that they work. They do have to be adjusted. You know you have to pay close attention to the probe placement because you're dealing with fine tolerances, especially like with a ductless system, so you can't just go in there a pass and just you know, Jam the thing in there.

You got to really think about where to set those probes, so that way they don't trip under regular circumstances, but if the drain starts to overflow, they do so. You got to think about some of these things, but it makes a lot of sense. I mean you know, we see, we've seen ductless systems for years before we started thinking about these things before we started putting these in where we would have these backups and they would leak on someone's, you know television or they would leak on someone's computer or whatever, And that's a pretty significant issue and you can have property loss and everything else. So it's just common sense that you would want to have something in there to protect the system, and you know the two things that if I could get reach every single technician, you know there's two things about condensate switches that I really would like them to think About and sometimes it's more business owners than the technicians, but number one is redundancy one switch, particularly in high humid areas like along the Gulf Coast in Florida and in particularly in homes that are unoccupied for long periods of time throughout the year.

You know a single switch may not be the only protection you need. Take the time get a custom pan built put it underneath the unit put a you know: a hockey puck type of switch like the SS 700 underneath the unit, so that, if you have a failure or if you have water that drips down, you know you still Have production so think about redundancy and then also think about you know, there's no such thing as one size fits all. There's no way possible that one switch will work in 100 % of every application that you see. That's why there are lots of choices so think about each and every job think about what the application is.

The lifestyle, the homeowner, you know, look at everything and then choose well. You know what in this case, I may need a different switch. It's such a small thing, but we've all seen what happens when that little small thing doesn't work as you thought it would yep, and you made a good point about the adjustment to you know. You know so.

Redundancy is great and then also pay attention to the adjustment on these things, because, for example, if you're putting an SS one say in a primary drain line, you're gon na want to be careful not only that it's adjusted properly. But in that case, you're gon na want it to be a little higher because you don't want that float sitting down in the actual water stream. You don't want it sitting there so that every time it's training under normal conditions, you have water running over that float, because it's going to tend to gum the float up and actually cause the drain to back up prematurely. If you have it too low, whereas if you have it in the secondary drain, you really want to get it.

You know as low as you can, because in the secondary drain there shouldn't be water in there unless there's an issue so get it lower and then that way, it'll trip a little sooner. You know so again. The application even makes a difference on the adjustment. Absolutely cool well, thank you for this James.

I think it's helpful and for everybody out there. Obviously retro steel is a they're, a sponsor of the podcast they partner with us. They make great products. I've been using safety switch products for years and its really all I've.

Almost all I've ever used and they've always done the job for us and although we averaged three four installs a day this time of year and we put them in every system and they work great. So thank you for doing what you do and we will talk to you again soon, all right, pretty straight tube Ron, you're doing a good job, hey thanks for listening all the way to the end of this podcast. I appreciate you. If you don't subscribe to the podcast on an app, I would suggest that you do that, so you can use the stitcher app.

If you are an Android phone, have an Android phone and download the stitcher app subscribe. There give an iphone use the podcast app. I would also ask that, if you know somebody who you think would benefit from this, podcast actually show them how to download this on their phone, because people really struggle with this people who don't listen to podcast, they don't understand what it is and they think it's Something difficult or confusing, and once they find out that it's not that bad it'll hopefully enjoy it, so you can grab onto your co-workers, grab their phone show them. How do I listen to a podcast? You would do them and me great favor.

So thank you for listening. I have some give some good episodes coming up pretty soon we got recorded a few more with Jim Bergman, so those are gon na be coming out soon. Jim has a big announcement. That's gon na be hitting the market place here in the next few weeks that we're gon na talk about that's gon na be huge, but in the meantime, hey do some good work.

Why don't you thanks for listening, see you next time on HVAC school.