This episode of the HVAC school podcast is made possible and brought to you by testo and carrier. Thank you to Testament carrier for being such great partners with in HVAC, school and technicians who are out there doing the work every single day, and if you are listening to this on the internet on youtube anywhere other than in a podcast app on your phone. I would suggest pulling out your phone right now, just even hit pause, just hit pause right now and then pull out your phone pull out your phone. If you have an Android phone download, the stitcher app type in the word HVAC in the stitcher app and hit subscribe, if you have an iphone look for a little purple tower that says: podcast go into that app type in HVAC and hit subscribe to hvac school.

It's a much easier way to listen to the podcast. If you're running you can listen with headphones. If you're, if you're in the car, you can listen with a auxilary, cable or with bluetooth, there's a lot of different ways to listen. But the idea of a podcast is mostly that you can listen to it when you're doing other things when you are otherwise occupied and you could not watch a video like, for example, when you're driving in between service calls hey.

Yes, this is Brian, and this is the HVAC school podcast and you are one of the really weird people who sits in your service van, probably least, I'm hope, I hope you're sitting in your service van and not in bed. I had somebody tell me the other day that they listen to my podcast in bed and that really creeped me out, like just the idea of that whole scenario. Just isn't, isn't good, and yes, I did say scenario anyway. So, thanks for being here and today, we're gon na talk with James Bowman he's the technical director for rector seal and James is a really down earth.

Guy he's really enjoyable guy to hang out with. We had a coffee at Starbucks together at the HVAC excellence conference, and so once again it's it's a little noisy in the background, but I think you'll enjoy James, and this is a little bit of a stretch for me and on topic. So I have to at least just confess this right off the bat so that, when you're listening, you realize the emotions that are that are going through my soul. When I hear this because I've never been a big hard start guy, I've never been a huge fan of putting heart starts on on functioning systems, and I was even one who would always say that you can't put a heart start on a scroll compressor.

I've since learned that it really doesn't make a difference, whether it's scroll or a reset. It's really just a matter of making sure that you match the proper hard start. Kit potential relay start capacitor to the right unit, and we talked about this quite a bit in this episode and there definitely are some considerations here. The other thing I want to mention is is that whenever there's something that I haven't tested or I don't know, I like to tell you that - and I tell you that not because I'm wanting to throw anybody under the bus.

But if there's something that I don't know, I don't want you to think just because the guest, the person who I'm speaking to on the podcast just because they say something that doesn't mean that I know it to be true in all cases. And so there's. Some of that, in this episode in general, it's all good, sound stuff and actually James was the RSES speaker of the year in 2015. So that proves that he is at least experienced out there on the circuit teaching technicians, and so here we go.

We got James Bowman talking about heart circuits all right, so we are sitting here in the Starbucks in Orlando at the Florida hotel. That's where we are second day of HVAC excellence and James gave a a remarkable presentation on ductless systems, and so I guess to start with, tell us a little bit about you. What you do where he came from start start at birth start birth. Well, at a very early age I was born, I actually grew up in the Midwest and farming community assad joined the army after high school and ended up at Fort Hood.

Well, after get out of the army with Houston for a while then went to Florida for a while, and that's where I got in the air condition in the early nineties was an install helper, lead installer and moved back to Florida knew back to Houston. Nice work. My way up, I just figured out a long time ago that I'm lazy see the trick. Is this? If you want to know how to find the easiest way to do something? That's the laziest person.

You know well um, laziest person. I know ask yourself yeah and just you know I don't want to stay where I'm at. I always want to move to the next level. I was going to do the next nail, the next job.

Well, I get a promotion. That's got to be easier, you know, so, of course I've messed up my knees in the army, so so eventually I had to get out of the get out of the attics. Four years ago, I left the contracting side of the business and joined wrecker seal. My official title, which you know that in four bucks and get you a nice cup of coffee at Starbucks, is National Technical Manager, hvs you're, basically the trainer corporate trainer.

So I spend 30 weeks a year on the road doing technical training, continued education, training for contractors, technicians, wholesalers. I go into the schools whenever possible because that you know, as we've been discussing here at the educator comfortable school there, the schools are vital for for the future of our industry and getting these schools equipped to to produce a good student is vital. You know now also in a firm believer that we've got to help the schools find good, good students to start with, so they can turn out a good product that the industry wants. So that, in a nutshell, is my life.

I travel I train. I go home and do laundry Wow laundry yeah laundry is not in my wheelhouse, I die yeah. I don't even know if I'd know what to do with that. Alright.

So I have to first make a commitment to you, because I owe you one yesterday in the in the class I I kind of I kind of let a couple jabs fly and, as you can tell, I have no problem with that. You you give it. I can take it and, if you're not giving it well you're taking it, was I'm gon na give her up. Well, that's and that's the agreement that I'm gon na make here is that you know you brought up a good point that if you give it to me here, you know I can just edit it out, but I'm not.

I will intentionally not edit it out. So you know you're a little tired after a long day yesterday, so I don't know how sharp you're gon na be at giving it out, but if any of them come I'll make sure to leave it in the podcast for the benefit of the audience. Now I'm gon na be worthless for 10 minutes. Does my mind's gon na be trying to come up with something yeah there's a lot of ammo out there, but you probably just don't know me well enough to pull it up, so you could always do it later.

You know your background check is doing next week, so I haven't kept okay yeah. I didn't even take that. Even that much all you got to do is just talk to somebody who works with me and you'll find out plenty there's a lot of different things. We can talk about, I mean obviously, rector steel makes a lot of different products, you're involved in training with a lot of different products here.

At this event, you're talking mostly about a ductless system. So it's kind of the erector shield makes a lot of products for ductless. One thing: that's come up a lot in HVAC school. It's just a kind of a recurring theme.

Is heart circuits, so start capacitors potential relays. What kind of triggered the initial conversation was? A conversation that I overheard when I was at the HR conference about three wire capacitors and not to go into it too deep. But but the thing that kept being said was: is that a will? A three wire through our potential relay in an alpinist relays? Have multiple wires? That's not the point. The point is that you connect three separate wires, so you connected to the common side.

In addition to running start, the comment that was made is is that, well that common connection is a ground. So I'm doing here close here as a ground and that just set me off, because the guy was essentially pitching that that a hard start needed a ground and it's not safe, that it doesn't have a ground. And, of course, we know that that common is not a ground at all. It just disconnects.

If it's, if it's a ground, you don't need a hard start at theft. Yeah, you have another problem, so that's kind of what started the conversation which got me looking more into hard starts I'll admit that I've been fairly anti hard start most of my career and it wasn't really a well-thought-out opinion. It was mostly just my experience of guys who were installing a lot of heart starts was that they didn't really know why they were doing it. They were just kind of throwing it on everything, and it was all sort of like a sales job to me.

You commented on the site about the difference between the what's called the three wire three wire hooked up versus the two wire connection, and so I wanted to talk a little bit more about that and obviously just for full disclosure. Here rector steel sells the the kickstart product, which is the product that we use in my business. So it's the one we names for years, and you know with all all transparency: we've had no problems whatsoever with it. We've just used it in a very limited sphere.

So that just kind of set you up there, and so now you can take the ball, sit it on the team kind of knock it down the fairway from there. Well, first thing we have to understand is is when we talk about hard starts, not everything. That's being sold as a hard start is a hard start. The definition of hard start kit is a mechanical potential relay connected to a capacitor to aid the compression starting.

If it doesn't have a mechanical potential relay it technically by the technical definition. Isn't the heart start? The most popular two wires out there are these very, very inexpensive, PTC, RS, positive temperature coefficient resistors they're cheap. So therefore, people buy them because they're cheap and they have a reputation for being compressor killers and loading yeah. They in plus the fact that they they do more harm to a compressor than they do than it helped.

Now, let's clarify if we're talking about fractional horsepower refrigeration, the PTC R is a vital part of that that system. Okay, it's part of the safety circle, but when we get into residential one of lifetime, single-phase compressors PTC R is at best a soft start. It's not going to drop out or pick up at the proper times. So, at times it's not even going to be in the circuit.

When you have short cycling, we have brownouts, it has to cool off before it can before it can work again. So therefore, it's not helping you when it when it is working. It takes so long for it to heat up, compresses long started and and all that additional time that the capacitors in the circuit is act, adding heat to the start winding everybody has to understand. Not all two hours are created equal and a soft start.

A PTC R is not a hard start, so let's just take PTC ours off the table for residential equipment, which is impossible to do because they're so cheap. But in my man, let's just take them off table. Okay. That brings us back to the remaining two.

Our technology remaining to our technology falls either under a mechanical potential relay or electronic relay electronic. You can't in a small, affordable package something make the electronic what that reacts fast enough. It can read, but it has to react - and you know, let's take meters. Okay, some of the best meters out there.

We've got the flutes the field pieces that you know the test. Oh all, these all these high-end meters. You take these majors in. If you, if you look at it, even your most expensive meter that the average technician will use in the field, it has a reaction time of about 0.5 amps or / 2 points:2 design for aggressor is that the start will circuit.

The start cycle is 0.4 seconds or less okay. So that means that we need something: that's going to be able to help the compression start, your precious start in 4/10 of a second or less and we're back out of the circuit so from electrically. If we look at meters just trying to react, read that reaction time, we're not doing it so we have to go to oscilloscope. Now you can pick up a decent sales: go for 700 bucks, but now you're, adding $ 1500 to that just to get probes that are strong enough to handle the voltage and that remeasuring so and then and then it's huge so to take turn around and take Electronic and put it into a little 1 inch by 2 inch box.

That's going to react fast enough and remove these from the circuit at the proper time. It just really can't be done. Okay, they try there's a lot of good products out there, but but ultimately they trigger what I call timing. The timing devices, no matter how you read it essentially you're there just triggering a timer because they have to it.

They have to time it out real fast and so almost all of those will go 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and then timeout so they're, not necessarily reacting fast enough. In some cases, then, you have the true mechanical potential relay the kit, like the kickstart, where it's the same, mechanical relay, that's used in in three wire start kits have been used forever. Okay, the difference is we're measuring the voltage between run to start versus common and start by doing that, we can eliminate a lot of relays because of the back. The back EMF, that's being fed or being produced between run and start is fairly consistent among all single-phase one to five ton compressor less than 100 volts.

But if we measure back EMF between common and starts, which is the way you do it in a three wire, it varies by hundreds of volts. That's why there's hundreds or relays so there's nothing wrong with a three wire device. The problem becomes. If we try to tell you that three wires Universal, it's not pop it's impossible to do with the current technology.

It's just it's just not possible to do. Okay, if it had been possible manufactures would have done a long time ago, because that what that means they could have used less relays that would have dropped their cost down due to volume, because back EMF is designed into the run to start circuit. Due to our voltage limitations on capacitors, but that gives us that means that commercial manufacturers can't design the back EMF between common and storage, so they have to figure out what it is after they design and manufacture. Compressor then specify relay to match.

So that's that's. How good we can get away with two wires, there's nothing to a safety it has to it. Just it has to do with convenience the ability to have a universal aftermarket that that has a mechanical brely. We can carry less products if you've got warranty.

You got two stage: equipment use, a use, the OEM three wire I mean use the factory three wire, that's what is there for, but if you're choosing to carry a aftermarket product on your truck understand how these technologies work, so that you know that you're you're picking The right technology, the way that they're trying to get away with being having the universal is they've, purposely set the pickup voltages lower than the average. So if you take all the pickup voltages out there between common a start right or all of the the back EMF and what they should be, and then you just average them out and drop that voltage, we're not gon na damage compresses right, but we're also not Going to help the majority of the compressors that we actually are connecting to, I tell guys it's all Thomas, like is easiest way to do it. You go out there, you take it, you take a compressor, take it ten years old, one year old, it doesn't matter but make sure it's got no star kid on it short cycle. It check the amp draw, put a universal three wire on it short cycle.

It check the end row. Take it off put the kick start on it short cycle. It Jeff Jeff, Jeff. Now the beauty of that is is by the time we get to the kick start, we're working a whole lot harder, so that compressor needs more help because I rent girls under you mean higher and out, and I and I will guarantee they're the majority of the Cases, your kick starts going to lower your your start up, amps significantly more than than a universal three wire right, because it's it's it's just the way we're reading back EMF.

So a couple things that I want to, I just want to back up and address a couple things technically, because I think there's a lot of Texan may not even understand what, if it's in Srila is doing or what a start capacitor is even doing. Okay, within a potential relay, you have the actual coil and the coil of the relay is wired in such a way between phases so that when that motor starts to turn, because when a motor starts to turn, it actually acts as a power generator. So you see this is a. This is a huge confusion, I think, by most technicians, when you see that voltage spike coming out of a capacitor say when you read between you, know, start and calm and start and run when you're reading off that off of that pond terminals say for your compressor And you see that higher voltage a lot of guys think that they capacitor is somehow creating that voltage, but that's actually back electro-motive force, which just means back voltage.

So it's a simple way of saying that it's being generated by the motor itself, that motor is, is actually creating that, and so, when that motor first starts, it doesn't have vac EMF, because it requires the turning that for it to be a generator, a compressors. True, locked rotor amps like it's true start amps are the same regardless because it's a start amps are the resistance of that motor, so that motor is just a heater sitting there. Locked so say you took a condenser fan motor and you grab the you, grab the blade and just stopped it, and you can you read that amperage that would be locked, rotor, amps, meaning nothing's turned on, and so when it compressor first, first, very first nanosecond: it's Gon na be the same whether it has a heart starting in it or not. But that's not when you measure no meter measures in the first nanosecond, it's not possible.

That's that's only a single instant, and so what a hard start does is. Is that when a motor - and this is getting a little techy, but when a motor first starts up, it requires more capacitance in order to create their proper phase shift. And so you have a capacitor that needs to be appropriately sized, not for when it's fully running. But for that first 75 % of running things are approximately and so that capacitor is gon na be size larger.

So it creates a greater phase shift, but now that large capacitor, you can't keep it in when you get to a hundred percent. Otherwise, you're gon na have power factor problems out the laws. It's gon na. It's going to burn up the winding right, so you have to get it back out and that's where connecting that coil across in the case of like kickstart, they're connecting it between start and run.

In the case of a three wire they're connecting in between common and start start in common, and that back EMF is then is then picked up in that coil, which then opens the relay a lot of people think that a potential relay closes it doesn't. It starts close, it's normally closed and then, when that back EMF is generated that opens that relay takes it out of the circuit mm-hmm. So what we're talking about here is when you're sizing a hard start that you have to think about at what voltage of what EMF? Does this these points open up at what point in time? Does it open up and take that out of the circuit and at what point in time, does it come back into the circuit and those are the considerations when sizing that potential relay? But then you also have the consideration of sizing the actual start cabin itself, which is another consideration and that plays into why kick start doesn't have just one. It has a couple different options, even even though the actual voltage, the potential relay, doesn't change that much.

It's more so like a passenger, so I'll. Let you speak to that. Well, you're right, the capacitor size does does make a difference. You've got a lot of technical knowledge, very, very technical guy.

You got a lot thicker than always. I don't have the same technical knowledge. Okay, now I spent 20 years a technician and installer. You know that practical.

That is, but I didn't, but I didn't go to school and learn the theory behind it and learn all the symbols and and so so sometimes when I talk it, it's it's more. Its field speaking right, okay, so when I say you know, the capacitor really has one job our cope at. Our capacitor has to hit hit that compressor hard as it can then go back to sleep till the next time. Okay, we actually size our capacitors a little bit higher than what you're gon na find a factory kit.

Okay, with kick start being an aftermarket, we have to ensure that we're going to help that compares a start every single time we replied, and so therefore we will put a bigger capacitor on there. We do have a smaller capacitor for smaller units, but your capacitor for bigger words. Let's assume for a second, that a compressor will produce 400 volts back EMF between common and start. So once they determine that, then they will size a relay that the pickup voltage will be approximately 300 volts, 290, 310, 283 and 320 somewhere in that range it will pick up.

It will open the circuit when I'm in my classes, I like to demonstrate I'll. Take a a stack of business cards or something and to stack side by side and I'll. Take my mighty glass and set on top of it to de visually, see contacts closed and then, when I want it and demonstrate when I'm the coil in that relay. And I see that 300 volts I pick up and then you can physically see where now my circuits open right, so pickup equals open circuit, pickup, even local strength, yeah, which is something that we have to learn to understand because then you know and the trade schools Have taught me that when I snow in - and I start talking this and I'm not thinking - and I start using terminology that doesn't match you know, the students are even more confusing there where to begin it.

So the instructor whacks you over the head with the rect with the rack manual, so pickup, is when the circuits open, by the same token, that when the compressor shuts off we have to be, we have to put that relay back that capacitor back in the circuit. So we have a dropout voltage so as a compressor slows down and as it's producing less voltage as its shutting off all of a sudden, we hit that dropout voltage. The magnetic field disappears, we close the circuit. We drop out ready for next time ready for next time, and the beauty of that is is this happens instantaneously, so that if we have a brownout, if we have the thermostat bump somebody slams a wall to mercury bulb thermostat, it goes on off.

The relay can react fast enough that we're going in and out of the circuit vardø AG. Here's James demonstrate demonstrate with his iced tea he's a big guy store. Him forgot. I thought I was on TV or something there I forgot.

I forgot you can't see me slam with my team: hey it works, though oh yeah fishing, and so what do you get? Here's, what the key thing for a technician out there. There are products on the marketplace that get abused sometimes and the hard start kit is one of the products and you'll talk to different people and they'll. Tell you different things and that's and that's a challenge, because it's a technician, you don't know what to believe, and so then you just say: forget it: I'm not gon na I'm, just not gon na deal with this and there's a lot of products like that understand That the concept of a start capacitor and a potential relay and a hard start kit, which is the combination of the two, is absolutely tried and true technology. This is there's no question that this is a good thing, because, if you think about what it's all that's doing is when you have a run capacitor, nobody would dispute that a run.

Capacitors are good things, everybody say, run yeah. You need to run capacitor right. Well, the run capacitor is just a capacitor, that's sized for running balances, up the power factor, and I've showed this with the with the test, o meter and everything. When you have a properly sized run capacitor, then your power factor shows properly when you have a meter that can measure that a start cap deals with the power factor.

Deals with that phase shift that's necessary in order to keep that motor running efficiently and get it up to speed quickly during that first 75 % of the range, because the run cap is way undersized for that that first 75 percent the run cap does not have The capacitance for that motor that's turning more slowly, and so it's absolutely tried-and-true. The only question on the table here is: who does it best? That's really the question who, whose sizes them best whose size is the capacitors best and who connects the potential relay and the most effective possible way. And what you're saying is is that there are actually significant advantages connecting that coil in between run and start as opposed to connecting inhibit means. These are the aftermarket application.

The advantage is is that I don't have to carry 12 relays on the truck that should manage it. You know if you're, if you, if I if I was to say, let's go down a local wholesaler, I said here's a model number, it's four years old. I need the factory heartstart kid. They're gon na go back they're, going to pull a box off the shelf inside it's going to be a relay relay a capacitor, some wires.

Okay. Now I come back the next week. The same wholesaler. I got a different model number same brand and I go to them and I said I need a factory kit for this.

One they're gon na go get a box with a real, a compression margin, but are they gon na be the same box? No they're gon na be different because they're relay back in the day when I started we had to put in and I'm not that old. I just you know it's just a term I easily only 94. I mean that's my that's my estimation. So if I need to start kid, I would get a relay a capacitor and I give my wires out of the junk pile and we go put it together.

And if I was a service technician, I had a head of easily - and this is just residential service. Technician had easily 12 to 14 relays. In my truck I mean you go look at a commercial refrigeration, guys truck today. He still has 12 to 14 relays in his truck, because when you're trying to measure back you mouth between common and Stark, you have to have the relay that matches 75 % of the back EMF, which link on the start, and that varies greatly between all compressors.

Absolutely nothing wrong with three wire stark. It's nothing wrong to rest, our kids! If I'm going 3 wire, I'm going factory, I'm going to the factory, I'm getting the kit that they specified for their compressor for that model, and I'm doing it that way. If I go and try to get an aftermarket product to do that, it's just not physically possible to do. You cannot replace.

I mean the Copeland handbook is 125 relays in it now granted. I granted half of those are for their small refrigeration stuff, but that leaves a whole lot more for all the rest of their compressors you're, replacing all those with just two relays. It doing the exact same thing, not possible, can't do it. Just I mean I don't.

I don't care how you look at it and you can prove it yourself. They said: try one of these universal three lawyers and there's multiple brands on the market. Now that are trying to tackle that 3-wire market we've been some Kickstarter since 2008, when we bought the company, we could have brought out three wires. We could have brought out on.

We could have brought out PTC ARS. We could have brought out timer devices, but it doesn't make sense because of how they work. So, therefore, we're gon na stick with a tried-and-true method that truly works as an aftermarket. Frankly, I have not done the independent testing, but I've looked at the research that you've done.

You have a really good presentation on this subject and, and it looks sound so for the technicians out there. I have a lot of guys who'd like to test this stuff. Do what James is saying you know testing you know tests it with competitive capacitors, see what it's blowing, where it's going out, but then also an easy way to do. This would be your next ten service callers.

You go on among different units check between common and start and check between, run and start and see what the variation is and then blue and that'll give you a good indication based on rector sales testing. What they've seen is that there's a significantly greater variance between the dominant start than there is between running start. So I'll do that test on. You know whenever I actually get out fixing things with real tools and stuff, but for those of you out there go ahead and do that test and and - and you know, see what you find now from another standpoint as far as an advantage of start kits, it's Outside of of the true of just helping us start, is you imagine every time you get in your car, you leave your starter engaged on your car and extra quarter to a half a second every single time.

How long has your starter gon na last? That's the thing with these that you start winding the starter. I mean it essentially, so you keep adding heat consistently into it every single time. You start it. So that's the advantage of looking at an aftermarket either when you install a piece of equipment order.

The factory start kit to put on it then or, if you're out, servicing equipment, there's significantly benefits to just go ahead and adding one properly sighs. We connected properly to the circuit, whether it's a factory three wire or whether it's an aftermarket like to kick star. But if you use an aftermarket take the time to understand what is PTC R, what is the order? What are these electronics? What are these so-called Universal three wires? Look at them understand them so that you can make the decision as what's best for your customers when you're using an outdoor market yep a couple other things that I want to mention in Joshi or talked about this in a previous episode, just kind of some best Practices, one challenge that can occur with our circuits is that when you have a heart circuit in place, that compressor is going to start, even if your run capacitor isn't working properly. Yes, that does come up, and so the one thing that I suggest to people is, if you are gon na, put a hard circuit on make sure that you have a good quality runs run cap on it as well.

Just do that at the same time. You know you know which ones tend to have more problems, and you know the good ones and hopefully you're keeping on your truck just make sure you get a run, a run capacitor, that's both properly rated, and that is good quality. One. That's not gon na fail on the customer.

Well, let's talk about run capacitor for a second, we remember when, when the cheap imported run, capacitors hit the market three years ago, huge huge problems. Well, it created problems for start kids as well all right, so we did after we did some studying. We could we realized what happened? We got to figure out. Why are not guys checking the run capacitors? Well, it turns out guys are checking their run.

Capacitors I mean they're using a meter to check the run capacitor right. We got capacitor checkers well, the problem is when you have a capacitor in the layers of the sheets, that they have insulation between them. If you have a weak spot in the insulation, you're gon na get bleed through okay and that bleed through will actually bypass part of the capacitor, thus causing it to Valeska, Paris, microfarads being a weak capacitor. The problem is, is that our capacitors work day in and day out at 370 to 440 volts but yeah we're testing them with a nine volt battery, so the weak spot.

Not this may not necessarily show up when we're testing it with I mean, but we tested another load that 370 volts. If it's gon na bypass, it's gon na bypass you're gon na see it it's gon na show up. So the proper way to check for the capacitor is, which is actually easier. I hated checking bastards you got ta, pull off wires.

Hope you don't break the Spade. Clip you know, sometimes you get taken capacitor out, there's no space now leave it running check to check the volts to the capacitor record them check the amperage on the start running to the capacitor recording you take your your amperage times a constant 26:54 divide it by Your voltage and it's going to tell you exactly why what that capacitor is doing right now under a load if it's 60, if it's rated at 60 and it's reading 52 you've got a weak capacitor, it's showing it now. You turn around shut the unit off, pull out your capacitor check it with your meter and see if it's, if it's telling you the same thing, but if we consistently check our capacities this way, a we're gon na find a lot more capacitors before they fail completely. We're gon na save our customers, energy, we're going to increase our or revenue, and it's all around win-win for everybody, plus we're going to damage less start, capacitor start kits by having good quality capacitance all right and that's what it comes down to is.

If you test a lot of run faster, if you're gon na find a lot that are weak, I mean that that's if you start doing it, that's what you're gon na find and when you get below that six percent. That's when it's time to you know to definitely have that conversation because you're outside of manufacturer specifications. I would even suggest, though - and this is maybe pushing the envelope for some people, but if you see a capacitor that you know to be the type of capacitor that you're seeing fail, then and they out and you're putting a hard start kit on a system. It may be just as good to say: look.

I've got a good quality. You know us-made capacitor here that I can use, and so we just don't run the risk of this failing because you are gon na it isn't good. If you ever run problem when it fails it may it may destroy your your start kit, so you know now you've now you're throwing good money after bad at that point, because what will happen is the the or what can happen is that start capacitors going to Start the compressor, the compressor ramped up to about 75 % speed it's gon na drop out and then that compressor is gon na stall because it's under load it's a fairly high torque motor, it's gon na stall. It's gon na go back in the relays.

Gon na pull back in to keep just just back and forth back and forth back if you ever heard one doing it, it's not a it's, not a pretty. It's not a pretty sight. So that's one consideration and then the other applications that I would definitely and obviously different people are gon na - have different thoughts on this, but this is this is just my current state, and this has changed even over the last year is, if you especially when you Have hard shot off TX weeks? You know that when you have hard shot off TX fees, you should have a hard circuit in place when you have a reciprocating compressor with long line sets in a lot of cases you should have. I mean you can look at your manufacturer specifications and when you're, installing a new system and when you're selling a new system under warranty, like you said, a factory kit is probably gon na, be a better bet.

But when you show up on a site - and you see these applications where the compressor is only starting - you know one out of five times or whatever the case may be, and you see - and we do see this so it sounds like maybe I'm exaggerating, but we See it all the time in commercial applications where you have 208 volts, so you're already slightly derating that compressor, you have long line sets. You know over 50 foot line sets and because it's 208 is undersized wiring, and so now you have compressors in a lot of cases. You have these. You know condensers up on a rooftop like a three-story building and they've got these.

You know long vertical runs and then it's 208 volts and you'll go up to them and you know they'll only start every so often you know how many times are we pulling a good vacuum now, so we're shifting here to vacuum right? What the heck? Okay? Have you interviewed interviewed a boy yet I haven't done but but happy I'm on your list. Yeah yeah, yeah! Okay! If we're not changing our all frequently we're not pulling all the moisture out, we may get to 500 eventually, but we're not we're not getting all the moisture out of the system. Okay, so moisture stays in system. It's not enough to to create so much acid that that we're burning out our compressor.

You know in six months, but there's enough low-level acid in the system that over years, the acid is actually traveling through the system, edging the surfaces of the copper and then that soft copper is now floating through the system looking for a plate a home. So it's attracted automatically to the hottest surface in the system, which is your crankshaft. Now you starting to copper plate your crankshaft. Now, then, we walk up to unit 2 started fine work, fine for 8 years, no problem.

Now, all of a sudden, it needs a start. Kid why probably a pretty good chance that one of the issues there is that the the the crankshaft has now been complicated to the point that it's starting to bind so now it needs a start kid all right. So in today's tooltip I wanted to talk about something that I think gets missed more often nowadays than it used to which is compressor, oil and - and I think it might have something to do with the fact that vacuum is getting so much play nowadays. And maybe it's just in my little circle of friends, but so we talked a lot about vacuum and acids and copper plating and sludge and all that that goes along with not pulling a proper vacuum, not evacuating the system properly.

But the idea of compressor oil is something that I'm not hearing quite as much as I did for a while, and it is an important factor, and so specifically we have. You know we have two different conditions that occur quite often even in residential systems, and that is a flooded start, where a compressor has a significant amount of liquid refrigerant. That's migrating to the compressor before the unit starts and when that happens, then you have that that liquid boils off as soon as that compressor starts and starts to compress and get hot and all that that liquid refrigerant boils off, and then it foams, the oil and A lot of that oil is lost out the compressor, so the compressor oil levels go down significantly and then you have this oil foam and that's that's a bad thing, but then also you have the issue of oil being washed out of the compressor. While it's running - and this happens with what we call flooding you know, flooding during running and flooding during running is different than a flooded start, because the flooded start occurs just because the compressor is is cold.

If you have a climate where it gets cold at night, and that happens a lot obviously unit shuts off, and so you have a lot of liquid refrigerant that migrates outside and then that's how you get to let it start. But when you have a flooded condition, while the system is running that happens because you have zero superheat, you have liquid refrigerant, that's running down your suction line and in modern systems as we employ electronic expansion valves and thermostatic expansion valves. We have less of that because that's the job that they do is making sure that you have that you have the proper amount of refrigerant going through the evaporator coil. And so you don't overfeed the evaporator and end up running liquid down your suction line.

But you still have a lot of fixed orifice systems out there and then we're not just talking about traditional residential systems. There's a lot of fixed orphis, commercial roof, packs and other types of systems that well as well that utilize makes tortoises and when that's the case, airflow over the evaporator is an extremely important factor. It's extremely important in all systems, but for different reasons. If you have an expansion valve system and you have low air flow well, it's just much more likely that that system and a high temp system is just gon na freeze up more often than it should, because that expansion valves going to slam down.

But in the case of a fixed or if assistan, if you have low air flow, meaning you're, giving the evaporator coil less heat capacity, if you're exposing it to less heat, then it's designed for. Then you can end up with liquid refrigerant in the suction line which over time can wash oil out of that compressor. It's not the old, traditional and gooeys to say in slugging a compressor where you hit the head with liquid refrigerant. That's not common! In the case of residential air conditioning, because that liquid refrigerant dumps into the compressor crankcase and it's pumped out of the crankcase into the head, so it's very very unlikely that you're going to get liquid refrigerant directly into the head.

If you did, you would know because it would be bad times, but it's much more likely that you're gon na get liquid in there and it's gon na foam the oil and then over time. You're gon na lose a good amount of oil charge and then that's going to result in your compressor running short on oil, which will then result in locking overtime. So when you're thinking about heart start kits a lot of times, you may need a hard start kit because of acids that were that are in the system that cause copper plating. But you also may have an issue with your compressor mechanically, because you have an oil return problem and that can also be due to piping and that's worth it.

But what I specifically want to address is the issue of air flow, and so when measuring air flow, the traditional old way of taking a dry bulb split is so out. It's not that there's no value in a dry bulb split, but you really need to be measuring your wet bulb temperature. In order to honestly know whether or not your split is correct, whether or not you have the proper air flow. When I say split, I mean your delta T and it's the term, that's that was traditionally used for your dry bulb split, but nowadays I like to see you using a tool like the testo 605, I in the return and supplies.

So that way, you can have a much better idea of whether or not your airflow is actually appropriate or not. You're gon na have a much better picture of what's going on because taking a wet, bulb, split or measuring enthalpy change. Rustic oil, it's gon na, be a much better view of overall system capacity and when you take that into account with everything else, maybe you take that into account with your superheat and your sub cool and your suction pressure and your head pressure, and you can do All that, together with your other tested, smart probes, then you're gon na have a really good picture of whether or not air flow is an issue, if you add in static pressure and other forms of delivery. Verification like if you wanted to get real, crazy and use a large vein thermal anemometer, something like that.

Then you can really get a great picture of what's going on with the system and and again a lot of technicians kind of get this sense of. Am I supposed to do this on every service call? I think you need to do enough to make sure that the system is operating properly and if you're not testing enough to make sure that you do have proper air flow and that you don't run the risk of a either freezing the system. Up. Because you're running such low secretary evaporator saturation temperature, suction saturation temperature or you're running liquid down your suction line and essentially flooding out your compressor, which is what we started talking about, then you haven't done degree legends.

So by using tools like the you know test. Oh five, ten I in order to measure static pressure, so you can see what your system is actually seeing total external static by measuring your your split fully. Not only can you see, dry bulb split, but then you can see your delivered capacity using a couple of tests. Oh 6:05 eyes you're gon na have a much better, much better view of how the system is functioning as well as what your airflow really is.

And, of course this is not a comprehensive look at how to measure airflow. So don't don't get confused. I'm not saying you can just jam a couple 605 eyes in there and know exactly what your airflow is. It's not quite that easy, but it does give you a really good picture of what's what's up what's going on with the system and then obviously just check your superheat and then you'll make sure that you're not running liquid intersection line all right.

That was enough. Babbling back to James, when we look at our systems, we've got to look at the entire system, not just one component. It's not just say that the start or the run capacitor is the issue. Let us not say that the start kits the easier, not start kit.

We've got to look at the entire package on these systems. My favorite saying is: every solution creates a problem. In reality, everything else everything you touch in a system over affect everything else and eventually it'll all end up at the compressor. Alyssa's Palacios is a contributor to our site and he's cuts these compressors open and he shows consistently it's copper plating and SATA compressors.

It's on the you ends up in the cylinder walls. It ends up on the Pistons. It ends up in the and the bearing points anywhere. That's getting high, do you get this copper plating and - and it's not designed you know you in overtime that compressors gon na have a harder time starting now, I think sometimes hard circuits get blamed.

Because what happens is you have a compressor? That's not starting. Somebody puts a hard start kit on it. It starts it. Then it runs for a month and then the compressor shorts - and you say, oh the hard start kit - causes the compressor to short.

No, the hard start kit got a seized, compressor running that now shorted. You got a compressor running that couldn't run, but that's because of additional phase shift that you're providing on start that's getting it running, we're normally wouldn't well. Now you still have that copper plating, since you still have that this is kind of like getting a pacemaker and expecting to live forever. Well, blaming the pacemaker.

When your heart stops yeah, it's not you know you, you just fixed a symptom of a deeper problem right, so so, but you know, and the advantage of looking at start kits early on, we can gain the benefits of reduced cost on startup reduced heat going through Our start windings for many years before we get to the point where things you know really start falling apart, but then again, let's start even earlier, let's start even earlier and make sure that we're pulling a good vacuum. Okay, we're getting all the moisture out of the system. You know, let's make sure that that we're using good practices when we solder and not putting junk into them. You know, let's make sure that we're sizing our wiring properly for the system we're putting on.

I mean it all starts back there and then you know from there just a lot of these other solutions we come up with are just too or just you know, pills to to treat the symptoms of a condition that started back when the day it was installed. So that's really what we need to start right right, and so there is a role for so I'll kind of land here and the conversation with our search. There's a role for heart circuits in the industry you're in a position where you need to keep some on your truck, I mean you just need to you're gon na. Have all you're gon na have a lot compressor in order to get that customer here tonight, you're gon na need a hard circuit right and so keeping every factory hard start kit for every single brand.

That exists is not a possibility. So now the question is which heart start getting and its shoes and when are you gon na use them and that's for you and the management of your organization to decide upon? I'm not going to decide that for you. But it's certainly a conversation. You need to have, and you need to look at whatever the best technologies can be in order to accomplish that, and I think I think you've given us some really good things to think about and to look at when we're choosing the next product, we'll pull off The shelf, I agree with you yeah and recta still has research.

We've got manufacturer, reps and everywhere in the country. So, if you would like you know, if you want more information, you want you want, you know one sample to try out do some test. I encourage guys test it test it yourself in the field. We get you a couple samples you go out there, you can test it against other products, see if it works for you.

If you're happy with the results, you know don't take my word for it. Just okay take my word yeah. You know, that's probably what you'd like, but you know, try it out yourself. I mean you know you got to see it with your own eyes.

You know you've got to try it yourself to see what benefits that you see. Out of it, that's what I encourage you to do in any way that we can help. Just let us know, we've got that. We've got technical training, we can provide, we've got support, sales support and our local manufacturer, reps and Regional Sales Managers can provide.

We do what we can to help. You guys make more money, new jobs, so what's the best way for them to get in touch with you or rector CEO? How, where do you want be able to go well? Rector, steel comm is a great resource. We've got a live chat feature on Rexel comm that goes into our tech services. Department got an 800 number which I don't have memorized good.

A rector steel comment. You find that's the easiest way to use Google's yeah, that's the easiest way Rex. So calm and we've got a lot of resources. Videos, technical data we've got it very easy to use cross reference chart, so you don't actually have to do the math when you're checking your run capacitors under load.

I've got a lot of resources there and we look forward to hearing from you and also you just Google best. Looking just you do a Google bit image search for best-looking, bald guy and the games will come up, but you've got more relationships on the internet. I thought they requested my picture with yours. That's for balding balding all right! Thank you, James thanks, alright, big, thank you to James for being willing to do that sit down and take some time.

He was really exhausted. He. He spoke a couple times at the conference and when he was sitting down, he was literally nodding off a couple times during the interview. He was so tired we interviewed in the morning.

So thank you to James. For that I he's a really great guy and I would encourage you to reach out to him if you have any training needs or any questions about rector steel products, I'm sure he would just love to talk with you for hours on end about whatever little tiny Questions you have you can thank me later James anyway. In addition to that, I just want to wrap up and state kind of my current position on the subject. So that way, there's no confusion.

My position would be if you keep a universal heart circuit on your truck, I'm a big believer in the Kickstarter as a good you quality Universal heart start kit. We've used it I tested, it seems to work pretty well in most cases. Now it's still better to use the factory art circuit and the reason is, is because a factory heart start get they're gon na size, both the start capacitor and the potential relay exactly for that component, and so you're gon na you're gon na pick up, meaning you're Gon na take the start capacitor out of the circuit at the right time, and it's gon na come back in at the right time. The actual the drop out isn't as important.

So if you look at potential relays, the dropout is very similar across a wide range potential relays. It's much more that pick up voltage and the actual capacitance of the capacitor. That really makes the difference. So I would say if you are shopping for some capacitors and you're, currently using a PTC R or something like that, I would definitely suggest looking at the kickstart product.

I think it's gon na do a much better job than then a lot of the other products that are on the market. Again, that's my opinion. As far as you know, whether or not it's better to hook them run to start and that kind of thing I don't have a fully formed opinion on that subject. I did do some testing on on the matter and there's a decent amount of variance between run to start on some compressors I tested as well, and I can't speak to exactly why that is.

It is a pretty confusing subject once you get into sizing potential relays for the design back EMF of a compressor. It gets pretty engineering and I do not claim to be an engineer, but what I can tell you is that at least what's being done makes sense, and so you do get a larger voltage between the start and the run terminals. Then you get them in.