R-290 bad compressor

ByHVAC Chat

Apr 22, 2018

Click to play the original Youtube video.

Sugata, a little delt build propane unit. Our 290. We had a failed condenser fan motor on it. There's no high pressure control.

We spoke to del Phil. They wanted us to try to replace the condenser fan motor before we went any further and after replacing the condenser fan motor. I turn the system on and I can tell you that the compressor is bad without even having to put gauges on it. Notice, though, because it's an AR 290 everything's welded shut, there's no ports - we've done work on this one before, but you can actually hear it and then it's been running for about 15 minutes.

The compressor head is just you know, cool discharge line is cool. Liquid line is cool, suction line is not even remotely cold and my temperature hasn't changed at all, and I don't know if you guys can hear that sound, but you can hear the valves of the compressor just knockin. So at this point I will put piercing valves on here just to confirm that it has refrigerant in it a fan of these bullet piercing valves. Unfortunately, in this situation there wasn't enough stub to to weld in a fitting.

I did confirm, though, that the compressor is bad, so this is our suction line. It has 117 psi when it's running nothing's happening, and you can hear the valves inside just rattling guess so. We've got the new compressor here now. So first thing we're gon na do is we're gon na go ahead and vent the refrigerant to a safe space, make sure there's no nothing around.

Here. That's gon na cause problems with a flammable refrigerant, it'll dissipate into the oxygen real, quick and mix and won't be a big deal. So we'll go ahead and use this port that I added to go ahead and vent the charge and then, of course, while we're doing that, we're gon na have our leak, detector ready and our fire extinguisher ready. I'm about to vent this refrigerant.

I've got my fire extinguisher and I've got my leak detector running when that starts going crazy. I'm gon na slow down with the purge of gas until it stops going crazy, so we're just gon na do a little bit of gas at a time. We're only dealing with about 5 ounces here so very important. I'm going to take the solenoid magnet place it on this.

We don't have gas trapped behind the silicon. My leak detector went off, so I turned off the discharge of the gas. Let the air kinda propane until the detector calms down. Thank You sectors, calm down, I'm good and start releasing gas again.

Okay. So now the system got a refrigerator, no refrigerant. Coming out. It's not teeny bit right there.

Okay, we're gon na cut these out, if at all possible, instead of raising them. Oh, I'm gon na try to cut out everything that we can. Unfortunately, that part it's not gon na be able to be cut out because the other pieces in the wind yeah I got a wet towel on just in case Meyerson Englishers riding off my head. You get this dryer pulled off.

Normally, I would say to purge nitrogen through here before we start breathing got two things going for us and one there's no compressor left in the oil boy, a lot of there's not even any service ports on that system. You can watch out for player, there's some flared up our c90, so it does show you that it still is dangerous, even though you don't see anything neck, that's why you want to have a fire extinguisher available just in case nobody wants to get hurt. They, even though the compressors not there, there's still a little bit of residual vapor. That's what this solenoid maggot is doing is a lot unable to escape from the system dangerous to be.
If someone doesn't really pay attention, what they're doing this guy's gone have to trim it short processed up to guys something underneath there, those braised in real quick. So I have done a repair on this box before and then version of the box right out of the truck. There was a well that wasn't braised. It was like right here on this tee.

I have to put a new. If I remember right, I think that's what I had to do here. Yeah she'd, give us a leaking right on those. No actually, it was leaking right here in this suction line.

That's right! Good! Okay! Now this guy we're not going to braise until we get the compressor in there now that it's cooled a little bit. What you want to put this on there. If I was doing a weld like a leak repair without changing the compressor, then I would definitely purge the system with that solenoid magnet on there and blast nitrogen and then put it on the other solenoid valve and blasted well a bunch of times to make sure. I get all the residuals off, but unfortunately because I have the compressor out, I have so many open points.

It's almost impossible to purge this thing right now. There is ways, but it's just not really worth it, for as small as the system is, I'm being cautious and careful as I'm working on and sand up before I put the plugs out that way. Nothing falls in still hot. Oh Lord, my oxygen just a little bit.

I don't want to cool with a wet towel. Quite yet I'm gon na. Let the weld sack, respect my well. It looks clean it's going well, but it looks clean at this point.

I'm coming. What's help go there stop spitting at it to it this guy and also get a sub fitting that about that code there we will add stuff fittings on them, while their yeah to stop. That is here, pull the Schrader's out wells. At this point, I can bend these in when I'm all done, so I'm just gon na braise them where they're sitting right now, so that we have to work course inspect those guys.

Real quick looks good purging it with nitrogen, now just to clear out any funky stuff in this one. The process of vacuuming it down now is waiting for the vacuum. My experience this becomes difficult because this can only holds 14 ounces if you've ever used any of it before it has less and that's not enough volume and it usually doesn't have enough pressure to get all the refrigerant into the CIM, and this stuff is really expensive. So the easiest way that I found to solve this problem is to submerse the can in warm water, not boiling hot water.
Put it in boiling hot water you're going to exceed the safety temperature of the tank says, do not store at above 120 degrees. So you do not want it in boiling water because you can, you know, make this get too high of a pressure in it, but I'm just going to put it in warm water, bring up the pressure inside this. So that way, I can better get all the refrigerant into the system. So I'm going to attempt to film this we're going for a hundred and fifty grams, so I just to make life easy.

I went ahead and set the units on my scale to grams okay. So I stopped it at a hundred kilograms or grams because it wouldn't take anymore. So I'm gon na go ahead and switch over the hose to the low side and turn the system on. I'm just gon na go a little bit over the charge to compensate for what I'm gon na lose.

When I take my gauges off and okay, that's our charge just to be safe. I'm gon na turn everything off when I take that horse off and now is the time we're going to cut off the access course. This is definitely the sketchy part got a weld. This shut.

Okay. Now we leak check. This is how we're gon na leave it. Those ends like that, it's gon na work turn the power on plug it back in and watch it come down to temp and that's it we're all done with this bad boy with all the panels back on alright.

So that was how we change the compressor on our 292 ler. You know, one of the things I want to stress is being safe, having wet towels, having a fire extinguisher paying attention to what you're doing. I think the most dangerous part of that job is when we have to cut the service fittings off, use the pinch off tool and weld because we've got our 290 on the other side of that pinch off tool, and potentially we could have a problem there, but Other than that you know there really isn't a whole lot. That's too difficult about working on those things.

If I wasn't changing a compressor, if I didn't have all those lines cut open, I would say it's very important for safety reasons to make sure that we purge the system with nitrogen before we start to braze like let's say, for instance, on that particular that exact Box, like I had mentioned in the video from the factory, nothing came off of the pallet, it didn't have any gas in it and I had to find a leak on a well that they missed. Now. In that instance, I purged that system with nitrogen. Before I braised on it to make sure - and I also use those Silla need magnet to open up the cylinder valve, so I don't have to turn the unit on and be trying to diagnose with propane with electricity in the system.

So I'm safely able to unplug the system, put the cylinder maggot on there turn on the nitrogen purge it through the system and then braised, and then you even saw if you pay attention in the video even after I cut all the lines open and it was Open to atmosphere, I took my torch to it and we had like a little flame come out of the thing like a little blowtorch, because there was still vapor, even though I purged it or even though I had everything open in the system. So that's why it's so important! You know to be safe and to pay attention to what you're doing. Obviously, you want to make sure you're pulling down the proper evacuation rates 500 microns and making sure that it holds that's very important, because if we still have moisture in the system, we have potential for acid to build and if we have acid building in that system, We have more potential for there to be a catastrophic failure or a direct short to ground and I've yet to see what happens on a compressor that has our 290 in it. That has a direct short to ground.
I hear all the people that are preaching about our to nineties, saying it's completely safe: they wouldn't catch on fire, but I don't know about you. I've seen our 404 a catch on fire and that's not even flammable, but when you have hot oil in the system and there's a direct short and it blows a terminal out. I've had customers scream at me because the unit shoots a flame out the back and they call me and I go over there and shir. Then there's a freaking burn mark from where a flame shot out the compressor.

So I can only imagine how that would happen with our 290 and not something I'm afraid of so we need to make sure we're following proper refrigeration practices. Vacuuming down the system below 500 microns is critical on our 290 systems, as it is on any other system, but on our 290 we have the potential for a fire or an explosion, so we need to make sure we're proud, falling proper refrigeration practices other than that. Just being safe, like you saw in the video being aware of my surroundings when I'm venting the refrigerant, that was a really important part. I like to put the leak detector about two feet away from me, turn it on and as that thing starts going off, I stopped venting the refrigerant and I just kind of let it go a little bit out of time just to be a hundred percent safe.

Other than that, that's about it.

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43 thoughts on “R-290 bad compressor”

Sean Tubbs says:

October 30, 2021 at 6:33 pm

Thanks for the awesome videos. I'm just getting into commercial refrigeration. I've been in residential for 12 years. Have you had any issues with that Inficon leak detector? I was reading some information from Delfield, and they are saying they've seen quite a few issues with those, and recommend adding a trace amount of 134A to try and find a leak. Just curious on your thoughts, and experience with the leak detector. Thanks!

Reply
Juniormint says:

September 30, 2021 at 2:22 am

So for a lil chicken sh!t refer unit you needed to consult with the manufacturer who right away told you to start throwing parts at it? Which obviously did not fix it. So, do you not know how to do troubleshooting 101? Keep the comedy videos coming i love them.

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Gary Warren says:

August 29, 2021 at 6:57 pm

A great video was surprised to see you evacuating with solenoids coils powered off though.

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Gregory Glaser says:

June 10, 2021 at 9:19 pm

It's amazing how much that nitrogen tank resembles an eggplant.

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dean Mohamed says:

May 23, 2021 at 9:10 pm

I heard manufacturers now allow service ports to be left on the system with red tape. Probably too many accidents. I was never a fan of that sketchy brazing at the end. I did it one time and my heart was beating out of my chest. Never again will I risk injuring myself for any manufacturer. If someone is stupid enough tp put a 6 feet hose on an r290 system then that's their problem. Use stubby gauges!!!

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Robert Gaitskell says:

May 11, 2021 at 11:29 pm

I really enjoy your videos and have learnt a lot and refresher courses are always good and I will continue to watch , thank you very much.i think there is a few things I can help with unless laws prevent this in the US. I have a hydrocarbon rated reclaimer and I would reclaim the r290 into a bottle and also weigh it , then let the gas go outside in a windy area, you then know how much refrigerant was in the system and you have pulled all the refrigerant out making it safe to weld, you can then remove the compressor by unswetting the tubes and the drier, I have done hundreds and there is never a problem. If you aren’t allowed to reclaim then you should evacuate the system before you remove the compressor, there’s plenty of other things you can do while you are removing all the residual refrigerant. Why wouldn’t you evacuated from both sides of the system before you regas. Just a few thoughts I have worked on more than 200 units with hydrocarbon refrigerant in it and have never had a problem, this process works and is safe

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EpieVlog says:

March 11, 2021 at 3:22 pm

it is flammable the same as R600 inverter liner refrigerator that i seminar in LG company and they been using lokring press fitting for the safety repair sir. its kind of risky while you sealing the end of a process tube by brazing. But anyway you are professional tech and its easy for you to execute like this. Thanks for video i learned a lot of move and being familiarize with the commercial refrigeration.

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Mike Pict says:

February 26, 2021 at 2:48 am

So sketchy, why not locking caps?

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Matthew Gregory says:

December 1, 2020 at 4:45 pm

I can head a wired sound I wonder how the evaporator fan motor is

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SK Facilities says:

November 2, 2020 at 3:05 am

When you said vent the flammable gas I right away thought you need a bunsen burner to burn off he gas. Dont know why maybe because the big bang theory is on right now.

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Ross Kious says:

October 26, 2020 at 2:23 am

You can vacuum a 50 lbs cylinder out then use it to take the 5 oz of charge in. Then purge out the cylinder with nitrogen and vacuum it out again ( outside) at your convenience.

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Nunya Business says:

October 24, 2020 at 3:58 pm

That may be a low side access line, but it is not the suction line. Plus propane is heavier than air so placing the flammable gas detector up where he put it is kind of scary that it went off ! And what do you suppose would happen if a low side leak sent the unit into a vacuum pulling in oxygen rich air and he put that oxy acetylene torch to the thing with oil vapor air and propane all blended up, i’ll bet the video would go blank and we would miss them scraping this guy off the walls. In all seriousness though if I were this guy i’d invest in a pair of safety goggles just in case he should take a blow torch to the face one day ! He never even hooked up his gauges ??? FYI, i’m semi retired after 44 years in the field with all my fingers and both eyes and I wouldn’t touch a R290 or R600 unit with a ten foot pole ! I say let the engineers that think these things are safe get their fat arses out of their easy chairs and go fix these pieces of chit themselves !

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Teresa Shinkansen says:

September 29, 2020 at 12:06 am

I wonder if attaching some short of burner would be a safer way to vent some flammable refrigerant systems? I think the biggest risk could be that the system might be contaminated with FC or CFC refrigerants (from a badly made conversion or something like that) and release toxic fumes.

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Ren J says:

September 26, 2020 at 4:49 pm

unlike most units which are outside this one is in a location where people are present

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Eric Johnson says:

August 15, 2020 at 2:03 pm

When I was taught they said that there were supposed to be recovery "bags" meant to store the charge of small units so you wouldn't have to break out the nominal recovery gear just to get ounces of refrigerant. Seems like that would be a perfect use for them to get the charge out of these and then release outside of the working area. Are you in Nepean ?

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jarhead shooter says:

August 13, 2020 at 3:13 am

Every time I see a 290 video I think of your saying I powered it up and nothing exploded! Service area Kanata??

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Mike H says:

July 28, 2020 at 7:38 pm

When you do these R-290 videos you should explain that it is purified Propane. Just as R-600 is iso-Butane. I know you need to be cautious but chances of any explosion or extreme fire are remote. Otherwise, nice video. Always enjoy your productions. The idea of checking everything and not just the "apparent" problem is an example of good service.

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JoJo Morgan says:

July 21, 2020 at 1:33 pm

R290 would be just like any other refrigerant in the ground short scenario because it still needs oxygen to burn… so it may shoot a flame but it will most likely blow itself out with a sudden burst because all the oxygen was burnt out of the immediate area and the pressures on the system would flood the area with a gas/air mix too rich to allow it to sustain a flame after the breaker blows. (Propane is very common in my shop so I learned as much as possible about it’s properties for my own peace of mind )

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JoJo Morgan says:

July 21, 2020 at 12:56 pm

What the car guy heard when he asked…… sounds like a great motor with absolutely no compression…. oh wait that’s it’s job….LOL

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Penfold8 says:

July 17, 2020 at 2:38 am

Why didn't you just reclaim the refrigerant?

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Jack McDaniel says:

July 9, 2020 at 8:10 am

I don't work in this field I just like the videos. But it seems nuts to use propane as a refrigerant, what if it leaks and its the kitchen flame? Or a repair guy blows up trying to fix it? Service area Barrhaven??

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J IJzer says:

July 6, 2020 at 12:56 pm

idea why not burn the propane when you release it? small burner wit a non return valve would do the job.

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Jesse Sibley says:

July 4, 2020 at 4:32 pm

Man I wish I could work with you I have learned so much by watching your videos.

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dpwade67 says:

June 21, 2020 at 4:41 pm

Vending guy here, that type is expected here in Texas soon.
Not really looking forward to the break room caught in fire call.

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Staycool With Rob appliance Repair says:

June 17, 2020 at 11:01 pm

i passed the nc refrigeration exam i am now a refrigeration contractor

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Matthew Miller says:

June 15, 2020 at 7:48 pm

Could you put it in hotter water once you've got most of the gas out of the tank at room temperature to get it all out easier?

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The Daily Project says:

June 15, 2020 at 6:35 am

Do you have a affiliate link to a piercing valve tool?

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Lars Jansson says:

June 13, 2020 at 7:12 am

A question – why couldnt you leave the service ports? Then you wouldnt have the risk of blow out when solderings the ends. And also have som services ports left for another time of service. God job otherwise. An college from Sweden.

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Lars Jansson says:

June 13, 2020 at 7:04 am

How many times during the years has it been the same working situations like this. Its oiften tite space, people running around you – asking "aint you finished yet" – with an smile on their faces. Hot envoriment and stressfull work – love it. Sorry for bad english.

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Jeff Hall says:

June 5, 2020 at 4:26 am

I very recently did a job on a Beverage Air unit and when I went to crimp it off, the crimp didn't hold, it was a leaker, even with my crimp tool set to max crimp. Tried it twice and it still leaked before brazing the access tubes shut. After two times, I didn't have enough propane refrigerant to complete the job from that canister. I had to get another canister and start again the next day from fresh/start, today. This time I used two crimping tools at the same time and it was a success. One crimping tool may not do the job, this is what many need to know. NEVER try to braze an R-290 unit without making sure it is positively crimped without leakage. ALWAYS make sure you evacuate the system to below 500 microns, AND, have absolutely no leakage when sealing the system by brazing it. Any O2 in the system will ruin the unit, it will internally flame and cause acid which will destroy the compressor. Service area Ottawa??

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Joseph M Orost says:

May 25, 2020 at 7:36 pm

LOL I guessed that as soon as you started using your fire starter as a lift you would need it and not remember where it was! 🙂 Are you in Orleans ?

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hans.preis hans.preis says:

May 12, 2020 at 10:20 pm

Once i replaced a R12 Charge with R600a… simmilar to R290…. but dont tell anyone haha

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I NOAH MANN says:

April 30, 2020 at 3:47 pm

Why not pull a vacuum and break with Nitrogen before brazing?

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Adam HVACR says:

April 18, 2020 at 5:03 pm

Nice video is it a scroll or reciprocating compressor?

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Mexmade says:

April 4, 2020 at 8:38 am

Watching all r-290 videos as part of my training, just looking for the safety procedures to make sure im not missing anything. R-290 was not that popular in my area till recently. Now I’m working on them with the respect it deserves. Lol don’t wanna go boom boom 💥

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James says:

April 3, 2020 at 12:43 am

That pinch off recovery tool that's out is a must have for r290! Are you in Ottawa ?

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Pawel Matusiak says:

March 15, 2020 at 8:10 am

HKS LAZAR R-290 Wärmepumpe A++/A++ mit BAFA
@t
Hohe COP bis 4,78 (A7W45)
bis 20 kW
@

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Eliseo Valle says:

March 1, 2020 at 8:26 pm

One day I will stop by to shake your hand and tell you thanks for everything I been learning from your videos

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Eliseo Valle says:

March 1, 2020 at 8:25 pm

How far your shop from Vegas

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Eliseo Valle says:

March 1, 2020 at 8:24 pm

And I will like to work with you

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Eliseo Valle says:

March 1, 2020 at 8:23 pm

Like how much we need to charge to replace compressor? Service area Nepean??

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Solowarrior1221 says:

February 24, 2020 at 5:51 am

A direct short to ground on an R-290 compressor…. i just pray no-one is near the unit this happens to if/when it does happen.

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Scott Willow says:

February 12, 2020 at 11:41 am

Once again FANTASTIC WORKMANSHIP Chris.
Your OCD shows in your quality work.

Reply

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R-290 bad compressor

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