All right so, first thing: let's just talk through some of the some of the truths about selling upselling. What makes it good? What makes it bad so there's nothing wrong with making money. I think we can all attest to that. We deserve to make a good living for what we do.

We have skills, I'm not a big fan of people who bash companies based on their pricing structures or based on you know, things that the things that are just them doing doing good business. So communication skills. That's just good business, so being good at sales means that you're good at talking with people you get it communicating you're good at pricing, there's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with taking classes and things like that in order to get better at that, there's Nothing wrong with empathy, some of the best salespeople out there are really good at relating to customers. That's natural! That's good! That's something that that leads to sales and nothing wrong with that.

I don't have a problem with people who take courses learning how to communicate better. How to be more empathetic with customers all that stuff? There's nothing wrong with open questions so asking customers questions, so you can better understand their needs, so you can help to challenge some assumptions that they have that's something that you do with open questioning. Is you challenge assumptions and that's that's healthy. A lot of people misunderstand things.

A common one would be people think bigger is better. They think they need a larger air conditioner in order to get the job done. That's so asking open questions allows you to challenge assumptions. Those are all good things, there's nothing wrong with that.

Those are skills to learn. There are people who are good at it and they're gon na sell more because of that, and that is that is all a good idea providing excellent solution. So, having really good solutions to provide to the customer you're selling, offering good equipment you're offering good matches you're doing load calculations you're inspecting ductwork you're, not doing you have a good reputation. Those are all things that are really good and important, and I know I'm talking - and this is obvious - I'm speaking to the choir here, but this is sometimes companies that charged a lot of money, get criticized for charging a lot of money and they charge a lot Of money, because they're doing these things well - and I do not criticize that because there's nothing wrong with making a good living like like.

I just keep saying here, keeping our word so you say: you're gon na show up at a certain time. You show up at a certain time, if you say you're gon na install a certain thing. You install a certain thing. If you say you're going to solve a particular airflow air flow problem, then you solve the particular airflow problem.

If you say you're gon na reduce their humidity or you're gon na increase their humidity or you're gon na make them comfortable or you're gon na filter out particles or you're gon na reduce viruses or whatever you say, you're gon na. Do that you actually do it right? Those are all things that make a good ethical company and it's okay to charge a good, solid amount of money and make really nice profit and have a nice life to do those things, because those are things that very few people can do well, and actually, I Want to bring, I want to bring Regan on real quickly because Regan is a business owner. He runs a really really respected business in San Antonio. So does anything you would add to that list.

Regan don't lie get him on hold here: hey, hey Brian, hey yeah! I mean no, not really I mean you, you don't want to screw people over, I don't, but how do you define that and how do I know, you're trying to do a lot of things that want to understand trying to eat a meal while you're trying to Moderate and I'm asking you questions and it'll of a live show, that's you know, so you have to multitask. That's another thing you have to do so when you say not to screw people over. What does that mean to you, though, because I think the reason why a set is because a lot of people will call charging. We get this a lot and I and I use these as examples, because I do not charge these prices, but people will say well if you charge $ 250 for a capacitor replacement, you're screwing someone over - that's not my definition, but how do you think about that? I think that your your prices are your prices.

So if you're up front with your prices, you let them know what it costs, then you you're giving them the decision. But what you don't want to do is promise things that are not going to happen if, if they have old equipment you need to let them know that you know it could. Last you know you want us to replace the capacitor on it. Could last 10 minutes or it could last another 10 years like you just have no idea, but you want to make sure that they're, aware of all the possible outcomes of any decision that you're presenting him with somebody's saying that you can't hear Reagan.

I want to make sure that you can hear him so just somebody. Let me know that you can definitely hear him yeah and so communication is all about building appropriate expectations. It's about doing what you say: you're gon na, do and doing it in in a high-quality way. That's going to last that's going to work well for the customer, but to me it's not about having cheap prices, I mean.

I I don't care if somebody wants to quote customers a thousand dollars an hour, then I'm totally fine with that. I don't think that that's gon na work for them as a business model, but they can as long as their front about it and they're clear about it and their pricing and they're not saying that the cheapest in town. Well then, I'm totally fine with with them doing business in that way, and that is a controversial topic, because a lot of people get hung up on what they call fair pricing and to them. Fair pricing is pricing that similar to others.

Well, the problem with that is that there's a lot of companies that aren't really making a profit and they're not building good quality businesses, they're not doing things the way that we talk about on the HVC school podcast so anyway, those are the yeah good. Fair pricing is, is what you need to support your business. I mean you have to look at your own overhead and whatever you can do to support your business as long as you're presenting the pricing to the customer and they have the option to say yes or no yeah. Then I don't care what other people, what people charge yeah and that's so somebody already in chat, said $ 200 for a capacitor, that's crazy again! This is so you.

This is we're gon na get an arguments in this podcast. By the way, that's that's fine and if you want to call, then feel free to feel free to call in because that's what these are, the sorts of things we're gon na discuss. I don't think that pricing is the problem. I think that integrity and honesty is the problem and that, if you're not doing list of things than to me, that's a problem.

I don't have a problem with companies that are straight for straight shooters, communicate clearly and charge high prices and again because people will say well if you're worth it well worth is a you know, different people value different things. I think, as long as you're being really honest and forthright and communicating well, pricing to me is not a moral issue. It's just pricing you, you set your price based on what you want to set your price, as it's the same as because people will say this. Let's say well that price is too much well.

If you go to a high-end Steakhouse, do you expect that to be the same price as Outback? Do you expect that to be the same price as McDonald's? Is it unethical for Delmonico's to charge? You know $ 80 for a steak. Is that unethical, when you could go, buy a hamburger for $ 2? No, it's not an ethical people, make choices based on their own values and the idea that we're in a commodity business where everything's the same and everybody who changes as a capacitor is the same and everybody could diagnose. As the system is the same. That's silly now, if you are making false claims, saying you're the best saying you're doing all this stuff and then you're not doing it.

That to me is the problem or you're selling people on solutions that aren't doing the things that you're telling them that they do. Then to me that is the problem and again I don't charge super premium prices in my company, but that's a choice. That's a business choice, I don't fault other people who do so long as they're backing up what they say with with reality. The problem that I see is that a lot of times, companies that are charging premium prices are not actually premium companies, so you're, getting a McDonald's hamburger at the Delmonico's price, and that to me is the issue.

If you tell somebody you're gon na you're, gon na give them, you know a plus Prime, you know steak and then you hand them a hamburger. That's the problem, not the fact that you're charging, high prices and again with some people will say we have a capacitor. It's the same for everybody, that's true, but you know you know very well that some companies are being really thorough with the equipment as part of that and some aren't some are taking it and leave it in the box and throwing it in the in the compartment And some are actually strapping it properly and making sure the connectors are snug and needing the wires and all those sorts of things which you know see. Some of us who may say well, that's not worth that additional, but that's not for us to decide.

Customers have the opportunity to choose whether or not they value that or not, and to me, that's really important, all right so moving on yeah, it's not great radio, but I would agree with you on pretty much all that. What's not great radio, you don't like my podcast, you don't like this. You think this day, I'm playing it's not great radio to not okay right disagreeing with me makes for a better idea order. Further yeah yeah, fair enough, fair enough, all right, so good, good yeah! That's what I want, I want arguments I want screaming and PG swearing, so lots of you're full of crap stuff like that.

Alright, so here's where I see the problem, this is my list of things that I see is the problem. I'm gon na go ahead and make myself disappear, so you can see this I'm selling products when you aren't clear on the benefit yourself and that's a really common one. Even for high-end companies. They sell products because they make a lot of money, but they're not really clear on what it does.

They know it does some good things, maybe and we're going to talk about indoor air quality and heart circuits today, and those are two that are really common. That way, over selling results the customer won't receive so selling products and saying that it's going to have a particular result when, when it, it doesn't have that result using fear as a selling tactic, that mean that's an old one with you know, people saying oh you're Units full of mold ma'am and all that sort of thing and a lot of times that happens, because technicians are convincing themselves that that's true, and so I just make the absolute rule that just don't use fear to sell fear is not a good way to sell Things instead, Hughes, education, ask open questions and if the customer has those fears, they will reveal them themselves rather than you having to be the one to trigger those and to me this is: what happens all the time people look for products with big margins that they Can shoehorn into customers houses so they say man. This is a product. I can make a lot of money on.

I can make a lot of commissions. I can make a lot of spiffs whatever on and so now I'm gon na figure out how to sell this. To as many customers as possible and to me, that's just poison, there's nothing wrong with finding products that you can make good mark. I don't think that's there's nothing wrong with that, but taking those products and now trying to jam them into every application.

It's that whole thing of you know when all you have, in your hand, is a hammer. Everything starts to look like a nail that becomes the issue and that's the problem that I have as we're gon na talk about things like UVC. I don't have a problem with the technology. Technology is good, the technology is proven, it's valuable.

I have a problem with the way that technicians and salespeople start to use that as the solution to everything, because it's something that they know they can sell and they can sell it big margin, something they can sell with a lot of commissions and a lot of Profit, nothing wrong again with making profit nothing wrong with having high margins to me. There's that's! That's great! That's a that's the American dream right, but you have to do it honestly. Then you have to give people products that are going to fit their need, not shoehorn. You know some product into telling the customer that it's gon na solve all their problems when it's not the best solution for them or not or not, a good, solid solution, even for certain outcomes.

So let's talk about that and now this is where okay. So I already got warned Neil cooperator told me that if I keep talking about indoor air quality that I'm gon na have to have a security detail, because I'm constantly ticking people off with indoor air quality - and I don't mean to it's just that this is a Question that I get all the time because when I talk about indoor air quality, people get the sense that I like or don't like certain products. And now there is some truth to that, because I use certain products and I don't use other products, and to that extent, I guess I like certain products and dislike others, but a better way to think about it is is that I don't like a lot of Products in every situation and that's what it comes down to, and I don't like products without the people who are selling the products, understanding the products better than they often do and just to be clear, because I think a lot of people get the sense that I Am this self-righteous schmuck, which maybe I am that's - that might be fair? I've made all these mistakes pretty much every mistake you can make I've made and a lot of my motivation was never to I've, never been money motivated. I've not wanted to get rich.

I've never wanted to optimize for that, but sometimes it's just being impatient, and so you hear a product, it sounds good, it gets sold to you and you just start to sell it to customers because it's you know really researching. It takes a lot of time and it gets frustrating which I completely understand, but as it relates to IQ, especially right now, especially there's so much. Misinformation and people are really looking to HVAC contractors to help solve a problem and the problem that they're really looking to solve right now is coronavirus, and the reality is. Is that there's not a whole lot that you're gon na do in an air conditioning system? That's going to reliably deal with coronavirus.

There are a few things we're gon na talk about those, but a lot of that products that get sold, aren't going to reliably deal with coronavirus, so Reagan said, Caleb be ready and I am gon na bring Caleb on now, because this is one of his favorite Topics - and so I want to hear Caleb before I go through this list, because you're I'm sure you're looking at it here on the screen which which of these products do you like, which ones? Don't you like just go through this quickly and give me your take on these all right. Can you hear me I can hear you well. I can hear you great, okay, great, fantastic yeah, so pretty much all of the ones that you have and clearly proven everywhere. Section are perfectly fine in almost any application, even UVC and as a surface sanitizer can be perfectly fine in most applications.

It's not necessarily that I don't like PCO or bipolar or ionization, but it's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution for residential applications, given a lot of variables. So those are those are some things to think about certain products. You need to know third-party company funded your audios, getting really quiet. So, yes, peer-reviewed studies, studies that are done by real scientists studying this stuff is great.

The problem is - and this is a real problem and I feel for the companies that make these products is that scientists, if aren't necessarily studying the things we would want them to study, and so sometimes they will fund research. But the problem when they fund research is that a lot of times they impact the results of that research. That's just the reality, and so what I want to see more of honestly in the short term is a lot more good, solid. Before and after case studies to me, that's something that we can get more quickly without the need to have scientific.

You know peer-reviewed data, although I want that more and I think the home Kem studies been doing a really good job about that with that. But in the meantime, I think, as we as contractors need to be a lot more proactive in measuring what we can measure and that's using things. You know like, for example, I'm using the laser egg, which is one of my favorite current products for the consumer, to measure co2 and to measure BOC s, depending on which one you get, and to look at PM 2.5, which is 2.5 micron particles that are the Ones that are the most dangerous and to look carefully at these things. So that way we can see where we stand are we are we making a difference? Are we moving the needle forward when we put in certain products, I'm also a fan, and I don't have a slide for this - I'm just mentioning it here.

I'm also a fan of using petri dishes, which I know is a controversial thing to do. But at least it's better than not doing anything so taking a petri dish, leaving it out for five minutes, closing it up seeing what's in the air and then after you make a change to see if there has been us any significant change now that doesn't deal With things like incomplete degradation, which we're going to talk about quickly because I've talked about these things so much but at least it can show, is there a change, that's occurring, or is it making some difference? Because we know that a lot of these technologies? It's not that they don't work necessarily it's that they can have unintentional unintended consequence. It's a perfect example. Being, oh, three being ozone, ozone was used to remove odors.

They used to put it in movies to have one we put in a room and it would run and it would oxidize and it would you know, would reduce odors. But we also found out that it itself would attack. And you know the membranes inside your respiratory system and would make people have worse symptoms. And so so much of what we're doing is trying to reduce people's symptoms, trying to make them feel better in their houses.

And so, while oh three was killing stuff and was neutralizing odors, it was causing another problem and it was in turn making people sick in certain circumstances. So these are things that we learned over time, and so that's why I'm always really careful when we're using active products, and so the active products on this list here are VCO, bipolar, cold plasma. Those are the ones that I'm more a little more nervous about, with PCO being the one I'm probably most nervous about to put in customers houses. Now, here's the part I'm going to slow down, and I want you to hear me very carefully.

I have a PCO in my own house, I don't know, I don't know if you know this Caleb yeah you did, we talked about it. I have a PCO in my own house because, even with all the research that I've done, I'm not actually concerned about it. In my house now that doesn't mean that I'm right and it also doesn't mean that I'm gon na throw it at all of my customers houses. It's just that I'm not a particularly worried person, and so I can you know yeah.

I can see that PCO does make a difference with some of this stuff and so I'm comfortable using it. I also use a product that I'm pretty comfortable. It doesn't have incomplete degradation to the extent that some products may have, and it also isn't a isn't a high producer of ozone. Now I say that so that you understand that, because people will sometimes think that I'm crapping on all these products and I'm not what I'm crapping on, is people who aren't looking carefully at it and who are using it with customers who are highly sensitive and they're.

Using it telling them that it's gon na kill things that it hasn't been proven to kill and without telling them that, yes, there are some products that do produce small levels of ozone. Yes, there are some products that do have the risk of having incomplete degradation. But let's focus on the good part here, which is this top list: media filters with large surface area and low velocity, great they're, excellent, even if you're doing filter returns and you're just using larger filter returns, so you have lower phase velocity with higher Merv ratings. That's great, better ventilation, bringing in outdoor air at appropriate times, helping to keep co2 levels low, helping to keep VOCs diluted.

That's great keeping your humidity under control, important HEPA filtration, is awesome. I don't know why we haven't been using. I mean I'm on this big HEPA filtration jag right now you can get these relatively inexpensive, HEPA filters that go along with your AC. They only filter a portion of the air.

You can't run all of your air flow through it because it'd be too restrictive, but they filter a portion of your air continuously. To me, that's a great technology activated carbon, a great technology. It challenges you do have to replace it and there's varying qualities of activated carbon, but all of these have been tested. They've been proven to work.

Everybody knows they work they're used in industrial applications, they're used in hospitals, they're used in all these sorts of places, and they work great when you get in these other ones. They have a purpose, but I think they're over applied with UVC being one that works. It does work, not a question that it works. It's just a you: don't want to shine it on stuff, like plastics, inner liners, a flex dock, those sorts of things you don't want to be shining it on things that could potentially because people will say yeah, but now they make it.

So it doesn't break down that may be true, but it still could break down enough to get into the air and create VOCs. And so we don't want to make a worse problem by shining UVC on things that can break down and get in our air. But it does do a really good job of a radiating, coils and those sorts of things so long as the customer understands the life term lifetime value of that now, UVC is one that is highly dubious that it's going to deal with coronavirus, though it's really gon Na do a pretty good job with bacterial and fungal growth on an evaporator coil, which is certainly worthwhile. But that doesn't mean that it's going to address viruses in an air stream and that to me is why people should stop selling it as a solution to that particular problem.

I would much rather see people use hepa filtration, which is proven to catch viruses. Of all of these that viruses, HEPA filtration, is the one that is proven absolutely proven over and over and over again to deal with viruses. What did I miss, Caleb or Regan? Pretty thorough, I would. I would add, though, that the fact that you're, I think it's always good - to have some sort of monitoring device.

That's looking at certain parameters that you're trying to solve for but understand that you're, not you don't have a reference meter. There is no reference meter on the market that you can get that's affordable and that's practically used in anyone's home. What you're using is an indicator measuring ring. It's like.

I was just talking to somebody recently. It's like they were at that. They told me how far they were and then but you it's an approximation that should prompt you to action. So high PBOC level doesn't necessarily mean that the the level that it's measuring on that monitor the actual measurement, because it's not going to be exact.

You can never be exact, but it can prompt you to. You know to open up the windows to increase your ventilation through your ERV and ventilating feet. Humidifier. Those are that's an important distinction, because, when you're going to sell a monitor you you you have to have that caveat in there yeah true, and that is also you know the more you fall down this rabbit hole.

There's always going to be things that you don't have all the answers to and what I'm, what I'm advocating for is not having all the answers I'm advocating for having a heck of a lot more answers that are readily available for your customers than just saying: hey. We sell XYZ brand of out of the box $ 1200 air purifier, and so that's what we tell all the customers that they need. That to me is a is a bad practice. Sure yeah, absolutely that is your in games just being able to have a lot of resource materials to point your your client to then be CEO and you know particle ionization and cold plasma.

They don't have the resources in abundance that have been you know, reviewed and that there's just not the volume of studies that is required to be able to confidently say that to a client, and so that would be where I would fall and then hesitation with using Some of those selling practices that people use when trying to tell people and an optimization yep and, as we go on, feel free to call in and share your thoughts on this. If you have anything, you want to add or anything that you think we're way off on my biggest concern in the industry as it relates to these things and because I think a lot of people wonder why I'm doing this because it's like well hey, I'm putting In something it's gon na help, who really cares? How much it's because there's so much misinformation, that's being perpetrated by the manufacturers and the reps? Who are just trying to sell a product? And I don't fault them. I mean that's their job to try to sell a product, but we need to be a lot more thorough in the questions and the questions that we ask because a lot of cases - this is what bothers me most - is that we could be helping this this list. Above this list of up top here, we could be helping with these, and rather often we throw these at them because they're easier to install and they have better profit margins and that's what upsets me more than anything else.

These don't really upset me as long as they're in their proper place, but what upsets me is that we're failing to use these and - and those are the ones that we know work so so that's I guess mostly where I want to land is that we can Be helping people it just takes more work and we got to be willing to do the work and that comes down to back to the whole thing about pricing. Again too, if you're providing really good solutions for people, I think you should be able to charge better pricing. The problem is: is that often we're competing with as contractors who want to provide really good solutions with people who are throwing? You know quick, easy products added that that are, you know, supposedly will solve, although all the world's issues that are not, as proven as these ones, up top that are much more proven. So that's my that's kind of my beef with it.

I do want to ask you Reagan, because I think you you do offer some of these products. What are your thoughts on this? How far down the rabbit hole? Are you on this either yep I mean we, we pretty much make it a practice to use large media filters and that's the only thing that will recommend for every house, just a bigger media filter that we can I'm starting to do a little bit more testing. Just like you are, and but I I feel real reluctant to offer anything that I haven't played with myself. So we don't really.

They will offer UV lights every now and then like we're a dirty sock syndrome situation, but other than that. We've we've done a few of the bipolar ionisers, but just real hesitant until I started getting more testing and, like you said it's not necessarily laboratory testing, but just peer-reviewed stuff. Just you know as putting stuff out there, testing it and out and see how it goes. Yeah and, for example, with bipolar, I'm not particularly concerned that bipolar is hurting anything I'm a little bit dubious on how well it works.

We've done some petri dish tests where we've shown some good results and others that haven't been so great before and after with bipolar. You know we because we're doing a lot of this now we're looking at PM 2.5 before we're looking at it after we're doing petri dish tests before and after which, at the best are, you know, there's a lot of different conditions. Those are not perfectly scientific tests. It's just what we would call a qualitative test versus a quantitative test.

Just a basic look at you know. Do we feel like we made a difference, because in some cases that's the best we've got. We don't have a lot other than that. So with people who, like bipolar type systems, I'm fine with that, I just I think you should be careful not to oversell them.

That's all because I think in a lot of cases they may not do much, but that's not to say that. I know that for a fact, it's just that's my opinion and so that that firmly falls into the opinion category and a lot of the testing that I've seen is sort of there's a lot of little tricks that they use. So like do the smoke box test where they run the bipolar inside of a box full of smoke, and it takes the smoke out. Oh yeah, I mean so that's a tiny little box.

They work really good on ice machines as an example to buy bipolar is a really good example or cold. Plasma is an example that works really good in an application and that application is ice machines. It's very contained. You have a lot of cases where you've got yeast and whatever that's you know, growing all over the place in those ice machines and that's really been unequivocally shown to work really well.

So there's always a and that's what I say like a lot of these technologies have a role they have a place. I just see them often being misapplied, and instead people are missing the solutions that really that we know really work, and so this list here that we're looking at now. This is a list of things that this is real indoor air quality. This is things that you can do.

You can help with air balancing make people more comfortable. You can keep the system's clean. That makes a difference. You can look at duct leakage.

Duct leakage is huge because not only does return leakage bring in stuff from your attics and crawl spaces, but also, if you have duct leakage on the positive side, it creates negative pressurization which pulls in more outdoor air from undesigned places which can cause. You know if you're pulling it out to air from your garage, for example, that can be have a lot of chemicals. Toxic chemicals in it envelope leakage sealing the envelope better sensors to look at things like carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide PM 2.5. Those are all things that can help quite a bit humidity control.

You know if your humidity is too low, bringing it up if it's too high, bringing it down. That's proven to make a really big difference on indoor air quality, bringing it out to our view, ventilation and controlling that out there so you're not bringing in too much or too little. I'm a really big fan of demand, ventilation right now and basing it on either either co2 or accommodation of co2 in total VOCs, I think, that's kind of the future and then filtration and load matching or huge. We've always known that having equipment.

That's too big is bad for comfort, it's bad for indoor, air quality and so is filtration. Most of all, and the biggest thing, if there's anything I would love to see, companies start to do is spend a little more time and effort in providing larger surface area high Merv filters, because when you have a larger surface area now you have the lower face. Velocity and so having a bigger filter is a better even if the Merv rating is the same. But if you can do both that's where it makes a huge difference and that's what I really would love to see.

Companies do because, if you look at the research, that's been done by a company like smart air filters, which it sounds like it's a company, that's trying to sell you filters, but it's much more complicated than that they're. Actually, a company that helps provide solutions to third world countries. They done a lot of testing on air filters and they've shown that even regular merv 11 merv 12 merv 13 air filters. When the face velocity is controlled properly, they can remove a lot of very small particles, even better than we used to think that they did, and so a lot of things that you start to learn about air filters that make you like it.

The more you learn about it, but again: smart air, smart air filters, that's a really great website to look at as it relates to these topics. I'm gon na get him back on to talk more about this, because it's it's really good stuff. So there's some supporting info some things. I've talked so much about this.

Okay go ahead. I was just gon na say I agree with everything about the big filters and I'm kind of on the same page with Bipolar. I don't think it hurts say. I talked to Caleb about it.

If you can ask some questions, but I don't think it hurts anything. It's just. You have to be careful what you promise that it will do, because you know, and from what I understand it helps large particles clump together that all the other stuff, as far as what it does, the viruses and things like that are a little dubious yeah. I'm not and again I don't want to hurt people's businesses by telling by saying things don't work when I don't know that they don't work.

I all I know is what I've tested, and all I know is what I've seen and all I know is the data I've looked at, and these are the best sources that I would suggest looking at. In addition to doing your own testing, the home chem study is great. There's a whole series of videos on corporate Lunsford's YouTube channel that kind of followed the home chem study. A lot of it is a little over.

Maybe an HVAC contractors head, but it's a really good study that looked at chemicals inside the home of the Lawrence Berkeley study did they did a study specifically on PCO and incomplete degradation and how it can create form, aldehydes and aldehydes. If it's, you know if it's improperly applied or if there's other chemical reactions going on now. One thing I want to mention about PC, o TC o stands for photo catalytic oxidation. That means that you're, using a photo catalyst you're using some sort of a light you're using light, you're shining it on a catalyst and you're, creating oxides that go out and oxidize, basically exchange electrons between atoms and molecules and a lot of companies will say.

Well, we're not a PCO, and I dispute that a lot of them that say that they're not a PCO are in fact using light in order in a catalyst in order to create oxides and that's the question I would ask are using light in a catalyst in Order to create oxides if you are based on that phrase, I would say that you are a PCO, but again this gets in the legal territory and people start sending lawyers after me, so I'm not gon na get into that. But whenever you're sending out active oxidizers, I start to get a little uncomfortable because of some of the studies that have been done. The EPA air purifier guide. If you read it, it compares different technologies and it's not or it doesn't have a lot of good things to say about PCOS or ozone generating devices at all.

So just take a look at that. Take a look at any independent data. You can find I'm always interested in finding new independent data, even if it goes against what I previously believed. This is an important thing is that you know sometimes you're going to find out things that are in opposition to what you previously thought, and you need to take that information and and find out more about it rather than just accepting it look at real-life case studies With before-and-after data that was actually one of the first times, I was involved in a study that Aprilaire did back in the early 2000s on whole house dehumidifiers because we're having a lot of issues after the Hurricanes in Central Florida.

And so actually, if you look at some of their white paper studies, they'll, say Lake, Mary or Central Florida as a place that they did some studies and I was involved in the installation of that equipment and I got to see the data as it was coming Off the data loggers and - and it convinced me based on those real-life case, studies that there's a lot of benefit to using whole house dehumidification and really high Layton environments like Central Florida, and so I'm a big fan of those sorts of studies. Even though they're not necessarily super scientific, because the variables are always changing, you know, science is always trying to isolate specific variables, often in a lab. But I kind of like this field, science, where you're doing real-life case studies and then as the contractor, just testing and test out as best you can it's the same way, it's our policy that, if we're gon na change any duct work within a house, a lot Of times when we do a change out, we're gon na alter some ductwork test in and test out, meaning test. What it was before then make the change and test what it is after because, unless you test in and test out, you don't know if you actually helped, and so more and more, I want to see us my contracting business and other contractors doing the testing that They can do even if it's incomplete, but do the best testing you can before and after, and I think I IQ also falls into this category.

Any of you want to call in and talk about an indoor air quality or ask a question. We've got some really bright. People caleb is a really good mind when it comes to this he's done a lot of research. So if you want to ask any questions, feel free to call in now, because we're gon na start moving on here, pretty quick too hard Start kits.

So you see the number up top feel free to call in. If you got any questions anything or you know anything, you want to get holler about so again, nine one, four, two, oh five, five, three, eight four is the live. Call-In line all right and you're, not gon na call in and just immediately be talking to me like last time, you're gon na you're gon na go through a process and you'll know when you go live because I got some feedback on that. That was a that.

That was a bit much, which I completely understand alright, so we're gon na we're gon na go over some things that we do quickly. I've got all of these. I'm not gon na read through all of this, but I just want to show these we've got these on our social media Instagram, the Facebook page. You can take them.

You can use them in your own companies. You can give them to your customers. Whatever you want to do is fine. I will admit that when I make these, I make them based on things that we do in our company, so it's kind of Florida based and obviously that's on purpose, so that I can use it for you to share, but I can also use it in my Own business - and these are the steps that I think we should think about - one would be use fewer chemicals in the first place, so you have fewer chemicals to remove next get customers to start monitoring things like low level, carbon monoxide, co2, VOCs, two-point-five control, humidity.

That's huge, especially in our market. That's why it's so high on the list, because in our market that's enormous filter better, which is what we've talked about more than anything else, that I think we can improve as an industry's filtering better and even making sure that we have fewer gaps and cracks around Our filters, so a larger surface area lower face velocity, use, bigger return, grills use two inch or 4 inch filters if you can get ones that have. If you have the ability to have the pressure drop, get ones that are high Merv and maybe even have some carbon in them. You know I like all of those things you just have to look at what the pressure drops gon na be across it, but trick.

If you make it bigger, you can use more restrictive filters, ventilate bring in more outdoor air and then you can look at neutralizing. So then, you can look at things like UVC activated, carbon, even PCO and bipolar if you want, but it's just to me all the way down at the bottom of that list after you've had all those conversations and been really thorough. Next is our healthy indoor air check points? This is a. This is a long one someone's saying hold on one.

Second, let's see here. Ok, sorry, it was thought somebody was saying that they couldn't see it on YouTube. It's actually just talking about Erik getting into trouble on YouTube, good old, Eric Mele. By the way, Eric Mele is one of the smartest guys in the industry also and we're very blessed and honored to have him here and as a technician at Kalos.

I thank the good Lord every day for Eric Mele in my prayers. Okay, that might be a little extreme, but he's a great technician. So yes agreed all right. So these are our indoor checkpoints and these go well beyond the air conditioning equipment.

So these are things like again considering an ERV, our HRV Wireless flood detectors, the venting your kitchen exhaust, properly venting Bath fans looking for moisture in attics, making sure that your ceiling around attic accesses these are all the sorts of check points that I think companies could Be doing instead of selling expensive products that you can, you know just throw into a duct. I think if you start integrating these services, maybe they don't have the sizzle, but they have the stake. You know they actually make a difference with people's health, they're gon na. Actually improve people's outcomes.

These are things that are gon na, be worth it to look at in our market ceiling. Lighting. Cannes is a huge one, because we have these attics, which are a huge moisture driver. And then you have all these unsealed recessed lights and all that moisture and heat comes down through those and that that can be a big factor not only from humidity.

But also you know, attics are disgusting and same way that crawlspace is often are, and we want to keep that stuff from getting into into the house. It's one thing to get in the house with an open nice, open window or an open door that it's sort of infiltration isn't as big of a deal as having it sucked through an attic where it's dirty and there's. You know feces of animals and all that sort of stuff which is which is just nasty all right, and then this is sort of our ideal setup in our market. We have a HEPA filter, you have a dehumidifier, that's bringing it out to our air through an AC, ECM blower box.

That part is the most questioned part of that we have here, because people don't understand what we have that I have that, because otherwise you're just relying on the negative static of the of the dehumidifier in order to pull out to air in and often that's not Enough to bring in the designed amount, and so you can actually dial in the CFM on this our box in order to bring in exactly what you need, and it also reduces the total returned static for the dehumidifier, which means it moves more air and just all And all works better now you could overdo it and you could actually push too much air through so that it wasn't being dehumidified properly and that's why it's important to really dial in your system so that you're checking what your enthalpy is going in and out. You're checking your dewpoint in and out of your dehumidifier under kind of worst-case scenario, conditions to make sure that it's all working properly. If a lot of testing goes into this, but this is a for our market, a really good setup. You've got the nice Merv filter.

You've got the HEPA filter and then, if you want to add a UV into the air handler, then that can that can work. Great number. These are is a really nice indoor air quality setup that frankly costs a lot of money and you make really good margins when you install this properly, but to me that actually provides a real value to people and if they spend the money for that they're actually, Gon na get an outcome, that's measurable and that's gon na do a really nice job for them. So those are some things to to look at there all right.

So we've come to the end of that section. So nobody called in nobody has anything to say about indoor air quality. I guess we've already talked about it enough. I'm already gon na warn you that that this episode is gon na go just a touch long.

If you want to call in that's the number to call in but we're gon na move on now to hard circuits anything else, you want to add Regan or Caleb anything I missed. I guess that's a big, no fair enough! All right all right! I think it's kind of getting it to the point where I'm beating this dead horse so much that everybody's, like okay, we get it, we get the point, but these are things that I still get questions about all the time. Actually, these two things are the things I get the most flack and the most questions about, and so and so that's the reason why I'm addressing it again so that way, when I get the questions, I can send them to this video yeah boy. Daniel says fair enough yeah, I say fair enough a lot and that's one of my one of my phrases.

I'm not actually sure where I got that from somebody. I know says that a lot I completely I say, actually a lot yeah yeah, but hey it's endearing. I think if I stopped doing it you you would all miss it and then it's it's one of those things you know if I ever you know, was hit in the head with a meteor and - and you were all at my funeral. I hope there'll be lots of fair enough sand actually's and in remembrance of me all right, so we're gon na talk about hardstark.

It's start kit, which is start capping potential relay yeah. I don't know if you could all hear that they've they've got some sound effects that they're using against me now: hardstark, it's stark, apps potential relay or PTC R, and so a PTC R is a positive temperature coefficient relay. I'm gon na take pull this way. So you can actually see this and that is sort of a even less expensive version of a hard start, and that's what we've got here.

You've all seen this little carrier doodad they had some that were, I think, blew at one point and then you have the you know the super boost from sup Co that that's an example. A lot of them are PTC RS. I think some of them actually have capacitors in them nowadays, but these are all what would call start gear and what I want to do is get you to the place where you understand the differences between these and hopefully don't miss, apply them, because this is a Really key really key place where I'm not against hard start kit. So I get this reputation of being against things, because I am against people who miss apply them and I'm not against them at all.

What I'm against is the misinformation that goes into their use. So, let's start with how they're wired, because I think this this is an area that hopefully I can get you to understand more about run, capacitors and start capacitors pretty quickly. So this is a diagram actually from the carrier. Factory hard start kit, and the main thing to understand is that your your start, capacitor is really just wired in parallel with your run capacitor.

So it's you know it's additive on top of your run, capacitor, and so let's imagine that this start capacitor wasn't here. Just imagine we don't have a start capacitor now. Okay, all we have is a run capacitor. If all we have is a run capacitor and then we take our run capacitor out of the circuit.

Okay, we take the run capacitor out of the circuit. What happens to the current on the start winding right? We have two windings in a compressor. I'm sorry. If I talk about this so often so, if you've heard me say this, like a million times, I apologize but there's two windings in a compressor and then there's a common connection.

Point so C is not a winding winding in a single-phase motor. It's just a common connection, point between your run and start winding. So if we remove the run winding, I'm sorry remove the run capacitor. What happens to this start winding, because again, your run.

Capacitor is run in series here, with your start winding. Are you gon na say something Caleb no Reagan. Somebody said yeah, okay, Jose I'm gone alright, yeah yeah! Let's go ahead! Yeah before before I move on yeah, let's, let's, let's move, let's bring Joe on yeah, all right, Hey Joe! What's going on, here's Joe, I got you, can you hear me absolutely awesome, so I was kind of like in a green room. I didn't get to hear any of the useful information you just went over for the past like 10 minutes, but I had a question.

One Chad and it's something I've been interested in you know. Hemp is a big thing. Now it's slowly, starting with the building construction and it's utilizing fibers. You know it's really got a good sense of pulling co2 out.

So I wanted to find out. You know from the masses what are thoughts about utilizing it in our filtration fibers, you know, does, does it cause a benefit, pose any type harm? What do y'all think about hemp? Fiber, specifically, I haven't seen any studies about it. Absorbing co2 co2 is actually a natural constituent part of the air, and it's not even you know. I don't know of anything that absorbs co2 other than live, live organisms or something that's actually oxidizing it in some way or combining it with something else.

Molecular Li. So I've never heard that I have no problem with industrial hemp. I think it's a it's a really nice thing. That's happened in industry as we're starting to use it more and more.

It has a lot of utility there's a lot of really good a lot of really good technologies that surround it already, but I would be interested in finding out more if you have any studies or anything to share I'd, be interested in that. Do you know anything about that Caleb? I don't I have actually, but I don't. I have not been able to find any studies that specifically point to efficacy or how how people are drawn to conclusion that it's absorbing co2. So I'm just as interest for the view in this regard.

Yeah, I did, you know, YouTube dive as far as hands Creek, you know in the building materials, how apparently absorbs the co2 so and that is what's being quick. Okay, I understand. Okay, I understand what you're talking about so what they're talking about is is that, okay, is that industrial hemp acts as a co2 sink. I think this is what they're talking about Caleb, and the idea is: is that the the plants, because they're carbon-based life, forms as they grow? They actually bring in co2.

We know that about plants right they bring in co2. So if you use hemp fibers rather than whatever the traditional concrete fibers are that's you're, sequestering co2 and that's more of an environmental question. It's not a question about when I talk about indoor air quality, I'm thinking more in terms of ambient co2 within inside of space. They're talking about reducing overall co2 in the environment, which is sort of a different question, but yeah it's an interesting and that it kind of ties into the whole question about carbon, carbon credits and carbon taxation and all that and reducing carbon ambient and the atmosphere.

But yeah, okay, that makes perfect sense. Now what you're saying yeah, I'm just utilizing that on a big aspect, you know say: yeah you are in. You are dealing with a skyrise situation where you've got one massive blower and you want to get as much co2 out of the air as possible. Utilizing not just the clothing fibers, but the plan as itself.

You know I it could benefit our industry couldn't but yeah. It's something I've been thinking about and it kind of played into here with you know, co2 talk, I I would be interested to know the metrics and actually quantifying the efficacy of that because, as as effect as its it's undisputed that Hansen, you know any other plants, Is going to absorb carbon dioxide? I got former photosynthesis, but I'd be curious to know if that rates, because we it's been proven that having living plants inside of home does for the purpose of air purification is not effective. So I'd be curious to know if this particular project effective at all yeah interesting stuff. So, let's, let's move on from that, though, did you have a question and it says here something about hardstark its did.

You have anything to add on hardstark? It's Jo, you know, like I said I kind of really get the information, so I really don't know what you went over, but with my position I get a lot of younger texts, you know, are they good? Are they bad? My position? Is they have their place? You know if you've got a failing compressor and it's not literally hard start, and it gets you by yeah. It does good and until you can replace that compressor, it serves it for its purpose. You know, they're pushed in my area is. Excuse me, if you have dim lighting, you know, oh the heart starts, can fix it, it's not a fix.

You know like people say it is it's being marketed as one thing, but you know it could potentially do a little bit of damage over a long period of time yeah and that's yeah, and that's what that's what I'm gon na cover here, but yeah you're right.