The fan just needed some love, the lack of pm is crazy and the problems its creating are silly!
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This video is brought to you by Sporland quality, integrity and tradition. You're working on something else and this exhaust fan is squealing really bad. It doesn't sound as bad right now, but as it'll start to warm up and get the pulleys warm and stuff, it starts screaming. So bad that I had to put earmuffs on when I was working on the walk-in Frieza the other day.
So we're gonna knock this out real quick. I'm gonna turn it off, talk to management and we're going to open it up and figure out why it's screaming or making this Whistling noise. All right. pull the cover off and uh again.
it was obnoxiously loud the other day. Like really bad. This pulley right here is making a loud noise. This one is too.
It's making a chirping noise. Let's turn it off. We're gonna see how tight the belt is. There's also another high-pitched squealing sound coming from that AC over there too.
Gosh man, the noise is up on this roof. The bells are tensioned proper. Those look good to me. Um, they've got some interesting wear patterns right here.
I Think we're gonna need new pulleys on? this guy is what? I'm thinking. um, the groove is kind of glazed and rounded over again. In here too. Yeah! I Think we're gonna need new pulleys I Think that we might be able to get away with putting new belts on it for now and then getting the information off of the pulleys.
Uh, so let's try that. I'm gonna go ahead and loosen this up and then put new belts on it and then see if that solves the squeaking temporarily, which would verify that it's a pulley issue to me. What I'm going to do is I'm going to take down Dimensions um The Driven pulley as a 2b5 Victor 60. we'll measure it too and then the motor pulley or sheave is a four inch by 7, 8 double.
Groove So I'm going to get all that information down. I'm gonna look into ordering these pulleys. I'm hoping that putting new belts on here will, uh, will help. I Tried the spares in here and they don't work right.
One of them is used because one was super tight and one was loose so one was worn out. So we're gonna run to the supply house, get a couple belts, and then hopefully that temporarily solves the high-pitched resonating whistling sound that it was making. and then, uh, we'll order these pulleys and come back. So I'm going to go ahead and grease the bearings while I have it open I'm waiting for the belt I Wanted to make sure that it's not the motor and this isn't a a perfect test.
but if I run it, it doesn't make any noise. Actually, it kind of does I'm seeing. Listen, no no, that's an AC that I'm hearing. so no, it doesn't make any noise.
but it could also be a bearing issue when it's under load that it's making the whistling too So well. I'm gonna go ahead and grease these up. then we'll put the belts on and we'll see. It may or may not surprise you guys, but I am a gnat with my grease gun.
so compress the handle, zip tie the handle shut, then dry the gun, wipe it off, then wrap it with the towel, zip tie the towel to it, then put it in a plastic bag and zip tie the bag. I'm a Nut about getting grease in my van just like Trauma from the past or something so that's good to go. Uh, you know it's interesting because I only have one belt running on here right now. It's not too bad I need to stop it and clean up all the grease because there's a mess of grease on there I kinda might hear something in that bearing like ever so slightly. You know this is a time that a, uh, ultrasonic leak detector would be really nice if I had one in my truck to be able to listen to the sound of each bearing and listen. But it's interesting though because when I get it under one belt, it's not making it. but it's also a new belt. So I guess I could put the old belts on and see if I can duplicate it, but we're the guy's almost back my other technician with the other belt so we'll see.
Another thing is you want to hinge this? Oh yeah, they need to clean this wheel bad. See, that's going to put extra load, all that gunk in there and all that grease. This thing is, uh, dirty and they need to clean it. That will add to weird sounds too when you have that much.
Gunk build up on these wheels I Realize I've definitely seen worse, but these things spin at a really high. RPM So we'll bring. Be sure to tell them they need to get a cleaning company out there too. The B64 belts.
They were like this was touching almost. So we moved it out to a B66 belt and got them lined up. Uh, we got it tensioned, We greased the bearings. We're going to turn it on and see what happens.
Noise wise. it's quiet. It's not making a squeaking noise at all. So I don't think it's a problem with the motor I Don't think it's a problem with the bearings right there.
I Think it's just pulleys getting worn out and they were hitting a weird weird sound. Now another thing that I did was we're going to let it run for a few minutes. I Did my best to line up the writing on the belts and as it runs for a little bit, if we start to notice a big misalignment with the writing, that's going to further confirm my suspicion that there's a problem with the pulleys, that they're worn out because they should be equally worn and spinning at the same time. So no one of these belts shouldn't start moving or slipping more than the other one.
So let's have a look. right now. it doesn't look too bad as it's running. Oh no, it's a significant significant look at that.
So yeah, there's a big problem here. and that further confirms that one of these pulleys is is out of alignment now or not out of alignment, but it's wearing down now. The tension inside, you know? Um, I'm sorry. The tension is good, so it's not like one's tighter than the other.
It's not like this guy is too tight on the top and not tight enough on the bottom. like the tension is equal on both of these. but they're slightly worn on the inside and one of them is spinning more than the other, so something's funky right there. But again, that's just a whole nother. Further confirmation of what I'm thinking here. Uh, we're gonna order new pulleys, but the sound is gone for now. so I can continue working on the walk-in freezer, which is what? I'm actually here for today. I am back today.
Got some new pulleys for this guy and we're going to finish this job, but it has definitely quieted down since the last time, so all should be well. We'll get started on this and get these things swapped out. All right. Got everything pulled off.
Got two new pulleys right here I did not get the taper bushing I Just got the pulley itself because there's nothing wrong with that taper. We'll be able to reuse that so we'll just separate them. So all we got to do is put these into here right here and push down. And it should separate the pulleys.
Take these three out, put two bolts in here and it should push down and then, uh, this guy I brought a puller up. If I need it, we'll slap that on. These belts are already worn down. pretty darn good.
and those are brand new from about a week ago. a week and a half ago. so we're definitely gonna have to get new belts. But yeah, there's just these pulleys are just wearing them down is what's happening.
There's just a Groove somewhere I Don't know where the problem is. it's hard to see, but obviously at a high RPMs it's a problem. All right. Well, we're gonna get going on it.
Set screws for the shaft are beneath the threaded part of the bottom right here. so we actually have to take the pulley apart. Now, the problem with doing that is we want the new pulley to be set exactly the same if I had a tachometer I Currently don't it broke? I'm doing without it, but if I had a tachometer, it'd be a little bit easier because I could literally just test the speed on this guy and adjust this until the speed is correct I Need to get a new tachometer. but for now, all I'm going to do is count how many turns it takes to get the pulley separated completely the top and the bottom and then we'll rematch it when we put the new one on.
I got them kind of lined up I'm actually dumbfounded with the look of these belts. I get really tore them a new one. they're really worn down. it's pretty crazy.
Um I need to go get belts I forgot belts. so I'm gonna go grab some real quick Bx66s. we'll go get two of those and then we'll finish I think I got it aligned as best as I could. but we'll uh get the belt the new belts on there and then we'll follow up with it.
All right? I've got everything tensioned up I turned it on I ran it for a few minutes and then now I'm gonna go and double tighten everything. Double tighten the driven pulley, double tighten the motor pulley or sheave for those that want to get finicky and make sure that everything is good to go. Tension's good. belts are good. can't really use the uh, it's not the like. they're the same manufacturer Browning but they're not like the same belt. so I don't really like that. but that's all that the supply house had.
Well, they actually had another brand. but for my spares I have grip Notch belts right there. but I think that this will be okay. But yeah, they are technically two different style of belts and usually you want to be the same because the way that they sit in there is going to change.
you know? and the the type of uh uh, cogged assembly they have there is different. so like one belt is kind of thicker than the other. so I don't really like it, but it is what it is and they're not going to line up perfectly like I'm looking at them and I'm like one's sitting a little bit further in the pulley. one's riding out a little bit more.
It's just like a hair, but still, that's enough. It's not my favorite thing, but anyways, it is what it is. This is all that I have right now. So I'm gonna go ahead and uh, double tighten everything real quick.
Everything is good. double tightened. so now we're going to turn it on and then I got to put the cover on and we should be good to go for now. Um, as far as I'll turn this guy on nice and quiet.
everything's good with that as far as the pulley. I Can see it right here. I Don't have my gauge tool on me, but there's a ridge right here when you run your finger. It's not flat, there's a there's a notch and that's what was shredding the belts.
It was just worn out in there and it's right on the edge so you can see where it's that shiny section right there. That's there's a there's a notch there when you run your finger across it. So that's what was running down these belts and causing inevitably the squeaking sound right here in this. Edge right here.
So, but now we're much better. Everything's good to go. So like I said, I'm gonna put the cover on. We're going to give it uh, the keys to the customer and tell them to keep an eye on it.
Uh, everything's tensioned right. we're adjusted right. I had some brownie belts on there, but they weren't identical and they weren't riding right. So I'm just going to throw those in as spares.
Now we're running. Um, everything's good and uh, we're gonna give the customer the keys and uh, tell them to keep an eye on it. You knew I couldn't leave those other belts on there, right? I was I wanted to because I prefer Browning belts over the the grip notch or top-notch or whatever belts that are sold at. United Refrigeration I just for some reason like the Browning belts.
but I was a little bummed out I didn't realize that when I picked up the belts, they gave me two different style of belts like they were both uh, cogged belts but they were two different like types made by Browning so they weren't identical in the way that the cogs were. and I don't know I just didn't like leaving those on there because it seemed like I was defeating the purpose of of what I just did right. Something was going to wear out the pulley faster or something like that so ended up putting the grip Notch belts on there I think that's what they're called. they're top notch or whatever. Um, sometimes it's a bummer when you go to get belts because you go to a supply house and I don't have time to run around to 50 billion supply houses. so you just go and sometimes I grab things and I don't pay attention I'm like just give me two of these, they give them to me and I don't inspect them and I'm like these are two different belts, you know? So you know it's always best when you have double belt, triple belt. When you have multiple belts on a system, you want them to be identical belts and the same age. You don't want to put an old belt and a new belt on there, one that's all stretched out or one that's dried out.
You want two new belts, You know that you typically just bought or two belts that were left in there for spare. so for a temporary reason I went ahead and left those uh, the the two different Browning ones in there just for spares. But my guys always know that you typically don't want to have two different styles, so I went ahead and let everybody know that they were at that location. they were just for emergencies just in case they had some sort of a downed situation in a worst case scenario on that particular exhaust and they could get away with running just one belt to get them through a day or something like that.
So anyways, so I took you through the process I was there working on a walk-in freezer from a couple weeks ago. It is now uh, May 24th of 23. I Want to say that the walk-in freezer video was probably from it was a failed pressure control hose probably three weeks ago or something like that. This this was there.
Um, what had happened was I went out there to work on the walk-in freezer and it was so Extremely Loud the first day that I went there that I had to put my I keep earmuffs in my van for hearing protection and I had to put those on to work on it because it was just hitting me right at this right high-pitched sound that was driving me nuts. So you guys saw in the video. went back out there the next day to finish up on the freezer but I went ahead and tightened up the belts on the exhaust fan to shut it up so I can finish the work on the freezer without wearing ear muffs. and then we came back again and changed the pulleys so there definitely was something going on in the pulleys or she, whatever you want to call them.
Um, and it was just causing them to wear unevenly. Okay, now in that situation, to to line them up and everything I ended up using my micrometer right and I eyeballed them. but I also use the level. the exhaust fan was level. So then therefore I put a level on the Belt put it on the pulleys. Now you know there's a lot of people out there that keep asking me how come I don't have a straight edge I have a straight edge I carry one in my van I use it quite often. but for a straight edge to work the pulleys or the sheave and the pulley or whatever you want to call them, they have to be identical. Oftentimes the pulleys will be a little bit different.
Sometimes they'll be two different brand pulleys on there. okay, um, sometimes the thickness of the wall of the pulley is different, even if they're the same brand. So you know using a straight edge isn't always the answer. They also sell laser alignment stuff.
like I said. I've talked about it in several videos recently. I've been looking into the laser alignment stuff, but I don't want to go spend two grand, three grand on something that I don't use that often. Okay, in the stuff that I'm working on, my micrometer does a pretty darn good job.
but using your eyes to kind of align things is not always perfect. Okay, so the way that I do it: if I'm using my eyes to align something, I'm finding a point of reference and I'm using that point of reference to compare both sides and I usually look at the way the belt's riding in the pulley compared to a point of reference. It's kind of hard to explain, but if you stare at them long enough, you can kind of figure it out and then usually kind of step back look at it, throw a level on there, level things out. You can get it pretty darn good now.
I Totally understand and realize that there is a time and place to use laser alignment tools, especially when you're lining up things like pumps and motors and different things like that. You got to make sure that is perfect because vibrations can be Killers for Motors and bearings and different things like that. Okay, so it's really important. Next thing, let's fast forward here.
Why in the heck am I still using belt driven exhaust fans? Why don't I Just get direct drive exhaust fans I've talked about this in live streams and different things. I Understand that a direct drive exhaust fan. That is where a motor has a shaft and the shaft is directly spinning the wheel. There's no pulleys, there's no power transmission.
It's just a motor going directly to a wheel of some sort. Okay, they're cool. They're great, right? but a good majority of the time. First off, you need to have a variable frequency drive on it.
So that way you can adjust the speed on a belt driven fan. I Can adjust the speed of it by adjusting the adjustable motor pulley. Okay, when I adjust the adjustable motor pulley, it changes how much of the belt actually touches the pulley, and that changes how fast that motor spins the belt okay, or spins the pulley. and if it's only touching so much of the belt, then you're going to get only so much movement on the other end or the driven pulley right. So if you have a Vfd and a direct drive motor, then you can just adjust the Vfd parameters, speed it up, slow it down, do that kind of stuff. So it's a great concept. but some of the problems that I have found is that most exhaust fan manufacturers don't They don't want to use a common motor. Okay, a good majority of exhaust fan manufacturers want you to use their Motors So therefore, they install and have special motors made for their types of equipment.
Now there's some manufacturers that do a good job of using generic. Motors That way you can go buy an off-the-shelf motor but unfortunately you know and I get it in one way. But most manufacturers want to make money on the parts too. So if they use OEM specific parts that are tailored to their equipment, then you have to buy the part from them and you can run into problems that way.
Okay, exhaust fans go down. They go down on a regular basis. Motors Fail Customers don't clean them. Exhaust fans get dirty, they start getting out of balance, They damage the bearings in the motor and then on a Friday night I have a motor that's bad.
You know? Yeah, it'd be great to say. Well, that's the customer's fault because they don't maintain their equipment. Yeah, that's great, but they're still asking me to fix it on a Friday night and it a disaster. I'm trying to pull my hair out because I can't find the motor that belongs in that exhaust fan.
Okay, now again, there's some manufacturers that do a good job of using aftermarket generic Motors or Motors that I can you know Source an aftermarket for? but there's still a good good amount of exhaust fan manufacturers and air conditioning manufacturers that use special Motors that they have tailored for their equipment and that makes it difficult when you're trying to find a replacement motor. on a Friday night. You know and your your source and all your supply houses and nobody has it and you're like I don't know what to tell the customer right? So it's just this weird thing. So I appreciate a a direct drive motor with a Vfd on it I Do appreciate it, but it also sucks when you're trying to find that motor on a Friday night.
It's a problem. Okay, in the past I've had exhaust fan manufacturers where I had an entire restaurant chain that had like 1500 stores I service like 40 of them. Okay and I used to stock the motors because we had so many problems with them failing I would actually stock them in my shop. Uh, that was a lot of money for me because those Motors were darn near a thousand dollars a piece.
my cost. So you know I've got three to four different styles of motor. There's three to four thousand dollars sitting on my shelf just wasting away because I'm not making money while they're sitting there. Okay, and you know it's just it's not a great business plan to be doing that kind of stuff. So anyways, I've gone off on a tangent I like a belt driven fan simply because typically I can go get the motor from the supply house down the street. It is what it is. Okay, so when manufacturers start using a motor that I can Source locally, then sure, let's do it Okay because I do appreciate direct drive. It's cool.
although I'm in Southern California Vfds. they don't do so well with our really, really crappy power that we have here because a lot of the times we don't have any kind of power conditioning protecting the building. So all right now, um, this particular customer I do a lot of work for and I've actually done work on this exhaust fan. I've replaced this exhaust fan.
Uh, these exhaust fans. They don't clean them enough. They get a lot of issues. I Showed it in the video.
This one was pretty dirty. You know they're gonna cause some problems. It wears everything out right, but it is what it is I Really appreciate y'all making it to the end of the video. As usual, if you haven't already, please consider checking out my website Hvacrvideos.com So on my website we have a couple new styles of hats.
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Exhaust fan was screaming for maintenance to get your attention 😉
He used his eyechrometer😂😂 that's hilarious
Torque titans have two generations. Generation two has larger and more spaced cogs with it also being deeper slightly. The generation one torque titans are thinner and I have had many issues with this one. The gen 2s are far better quality and should be used instead of the gen ones
"That's the customer's fault for not doing maintenance" yeah you're right it is, but that doesn't change who has to fix it haha.
What happened to the squeeky AC in the corner you could finally hear after stopping the fan?
I have seen 2 identical belts even tho they were supposedly a match set be just a fraction off.. An It ticks me off I order an pay for match set an their NOT a perfect match 😢😢… but I always put my new belts on an look at where the belt is at on each pully . It may not be 100% perfect but usually it dang close to 99% right on… An as far a direct, drive exhaust fan??? you couldn’t chase me hard enough to give me one free I don’t like them I will not install them! For much the same reasons as you stated an my customer? When they go down they expect me to get them up an running right away not next day .. An I am glad I am not the only one that thinks this world needs to step back an go back to the ways of the 60’s and be kind an respectful of each other ❤
If one pulley is worn smaller, more than the other you will get a gear ratio mismatch as one belt tries to go faster than the other = sqealing, so obviously both pulleys needs replacing.
the grease gun hose it going to break if you keep bending it tight like that the best was to carry a grease gun is in a bucket!
While not remotely ultra sonic, couldnt you use the mic sensitivity of your phone or gopro to record the sound and try to go by that? Service area Barrhaven??
Cmon man do you not own a screwdriver. ;P That is your mechanics stethoscope. You push the tip of the screwdriver against the housing for the bearing and you put your ear on the other end. No I am not trolling you. Try it. It works best when close to the housing of what you are listening too. It works really good against mounting bolts normally. You can use it to listen to all kinds of stuff. FYI that glazing needs to be removed normally. Use sand paper or scotchbrite and wrap it around a screwdriver. Zip tie it on and while running use it to clean off the glazing. Screwdriver keeps the fingers away were something to catch. This method scotchbrite normally works better. Now I would recommend using the mechanics stethoscope and start listening to things before and after you replace them. It will give you an express diagnostic ability. You can also rest your fingernail edge against the screwdriver without the rest of the finger touching. The vibration will be channeled through the fingernail. I am a big rig mechanic for over 13 yrs now. Are you in Kanata ?
When replacing belts of two or more they really need to be paired belts off the same roll.
Wow…
Never seen anyone do that with a grease gun before.
^.^
Haha… He made a grease gun Condom! That's great. Suits my OCD just fine!
The notched belts are always a problem, they are noisy. Equally, adjustable sheaves (no pulleys) are an issue as they have uneven surface (they are intended to be used to do a preliminary set and then replaced with fixed). A screwdriver on the bearing and to your ear will tell you if those are bad and a motor typically makes a lot more noise unloaded if the bearing is bad vs loaded (and how long the sheave keeps moving tells you how worn as worn runs a long long time – and no, bad bearings only make nasty noises just before seize up, with less grease and wear they coast along on the bare balls, grease slows down the motor)
We have noticed the the torque titan belts ware out too fast, they get loosey goosey, squeaks, etc. even though going through all the pulleys and bearing are all good. So we started buying Gates belts and have had no troubles.
old timers trick to squeaky belts use a bar of body soap to dress the belts comes off with water and should quite it down long enough to get the new pulleys in Are you in Nepean ?
Again, it must be said. Thank you for showing the process. It is a helpful tool for techs, especially new ones!
I have been using a low speed on my drill for the fan puller. 3/4" nut and saces me the wrench dropping.
Two things with multiple belt systems, and maybe you touched on it and I missed it. One, they need to be a matched set and they come tied together. Not just two random of the same brand. Those first two replacements were definitely not matched nor even the same. So no good there, but you took them off.
Two, with a double adjustable pulley, how do you verify that the two pulleys are exactly set the same? Counting the original turns, is just setting it back to what it was before and it worn unevenly before. If those the pulleys are not exactly the same, they belts will be driven at different rates, cause wear and can lead to the squeaking.
How would you verify they are both set the same? Amp check with one belt on at a time? RPM check with one belt at a time?
I think you get where I am going and this unit did have a problem with belt noise. That one, more worn pulley could indicate the double pulley was not matched between them and it caused one to wear more, in order to try and even out itself. I am sure you can spend a day getting it exact and even being off it's not like it will grenade tomorrow. It will take time to develop problems again.
Anyway….. Cheers!
With an adjustable dual belt pulley, close enough is all you will ever get, as when you adjust it, the belts move apart or together. More than good enough for those low speed units.
With high speed belt drives you even need to dial in the taper lock pulleys with an indicator to make them vibration free at 5,000 rpm.
Awesone video i like the your standard hat very comfortable
Matched set, vs. Same number: big difference. Found that out the hard way. Service area Kanata??
small diameter pvc is an excellent way to listen to bearings. Acts like a stethoscope.
Man I really appreciate your videos. When I was an apprentice my journeymen wouldn’t teach me really anything I just got to watch. I learned bad habits from them to and I was left with a lot more questions then answers during my first summer as a journeyman and these videos really help me be better at my job.
I HATE Gates belts.
I always love your music selection, including today. Your style is way different from other channels but you, sir, pull it off magnificently
Does TruTech Tools sell an eyechrometer? Seems like a handy device. 😉
Putting some wax on the belt and the squeeling stops, it's the belt/pulley. If it stays it's the bearings. Not a hvac guy but it helped my alternator belt for some time.
There is something definitely wrong with me. I spend all day on a roof working on fans, and I get home and watch your video🙃.We never have the right belts. I put a 4L260 on one and my helper says it uses a 4L270. My reply was, let it run 10 minutes and we'll have 4L265! Service area Ottawa??
👎 😂
grate video.
just wondering what ever happened with your own house heat pump plans?
Belt manufactures produce matched belts for multi-belt applications. They are designated by matching number on the belts and should always be changed in pairs.
without a ultrasonic detector or stetoscop , use your thermal camera to see which bearing is hotter , a good sign normally if there is a higher friction
They make a strobe light tach app you might want to try. Are you in Ottawa ?
Are all the bolt ends the same on the pully that pushes it self apart? I wonder if there is a tool with a planetary gearbox that can turn both at same speed
A mechanics stethoscope might be a useful addtion to your tool kit, will allow you to isolate noisy bearings.
I might be crazy but isn't there vibration noise after changing to identical belts?
251 Thumbs uP
I think it’s funny that the restaurant staff probably don’t know you’re filming all the time, so I just imagine them going “Oh, that guy’s talking to himself again”
In a dual belt or more situation you must get MATCHED belts. Jim Z- Fan
I'm sure you know, but the alignment as well as the two shafts being plumb to each other could cause the issues you've shown here, even if the pulleys were in good shape. Brought this up because it looks like the motor is not in good alignment with the fan shaft.
Thats the way she goes
Qoute of the decade" It is what it is" , I say that a lot, as we are in the boat. Are you in Orleans ?