The original complaint was that it was high in temp but when I arrived it was fine, I ended up replacing the temp control and cleaning the unit up and all was well.
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This video is brought to you by spore'ln quality, integrity and tradition. This morning we have a complaint of a produce walkin that is not working properly, it's a little bit dirty, but here's the interesting thing they said last night. It was like fifty something degrees, but this morning, everything's fine, so they still wanted us to come out, which is all good. You know that's what we're here for so I'm gon na jump into it and see what we can figure out.
It is 1106 a.m. the first thing, I'm gon na check. The first thing that comes to mind is the defrost timer, because the customer said that it wasn't working last night and it's working this morning. So what the heck someone's got, this defrost clock wired backwards.
It's fine and they have it wired backwards to where the pins are out is normal operation and the pins are in as defrost. That's not correct, but I mean you can make it work because the defrost clock hasn't normally opened in a normally closed contact. But someone clearly doesn't understand how this defrost timer works anyways. So it's 11 p.m.
my defrost clock says 1:00 a.m. I'm not liking that right off of that, and they were saying that last night. It turns, though, freely so. I don't see a problem with that when you're looking at these defrost clocks, look at the triangle forget the hands triangle points to the time.
Interesting, all right, we are hooked up. I've got my suction port hooked up downstairs and my suction probe did evaporate or superheat. This one hooked up on the liquid line so measure quick right now our system is pumped down, it's not running at the moment. You could see our return, dry bulb, temperature is 39 degrees and obviously everything else really doesn't matter until the system turns on.
So we need to see out what temperature the system turns back on the unit is not in a defrost right now for giggles. I will go ahead and hook up my outdoor air probe. My suction port was not on correctly downstairs. I put one on up here and I'm getting 53 psi.
The one downstairs reading 14 psi. So it's obviously not depressing the Schrader down there. We are running a clear sight: glass, it's gon na be very difficult for you guys to see this clear sight, glass, but yeah, so we're running a clear sight, glass, the system's turning on and off everything seems to be okay. This is interesting, very interesting.
Let's let the system operate for a little bit so, as the system has been running, cyclists slowly, starting to flash and once in a while, but it's intimate and it's just every once in a blue moon, we're still gon na. Let it pull down and see what happens all right. My system just satisfied at 34 degrees and then it looks like it's coming on right at 40 degrees, so we're gon na watch it go through another cycle. Again I noticed I mean everything seemed to be okay.
It was a rather short cycle time, so I'd imagine. The system is probably a little oversized just by the way it pulled down real, quick but yeah I mean nothing is jumping out at me saying: there's a problem so we're just going to watch it for a little bit and see if we have a repeat issue Again, I will say that um, the evaporator downstairs is a little bit dirty, I'm probably not going to clean that today. That's something I would probably talk to them about we'll come back out, I'm not going to waste my time on overtime plus. It gives me a chance to come back and evaluate the system again to make sure everything's operating properly, so we're just going to watch it. Alright, we just turn back on box. Temp came up to like 43 degrees. This time. That's interesting kind of makes me wonder if we have a temperature controller issue systems running though so that's interesting.
So the first time we came on at 39 degrees. This time we came on at 42 degrees makes me wonder about the temperature controller. Maybe we have a temperature controller, that's starting to fail, so we're gon na keep watching the box. It's not a race.
We're gon na watch. Another cycle see how long it takes to turn off and then see what it turns on next time. Here we go again with the flashing sigh class. Let's see what our super hat super heats out when it's flashing, our super heats only 11 degrees.
When the site gloss is flashing, it's not like it's flooding, but then it clears up. So I think we're gon na leave it be, but just maybe the liquids building up in the condenser or something interesting. This unit doesn't have a head pressure. Control valve at all.
Just fan cycling and also it's gon na be hard to see that actually cycle two, but all right. We shut off at 34 again trending right now, and I want to see what it turns back on at so we're just gon na wait and see for the first time that turned back on at 39. Second time it turned back on at 42. I think 43 somewhere in there and so we're gon na see where it goes to this then customer's complaint was last night, got up to 50 degrees in the box, alright and we're cutting in at 42 again.
So this is looking like there's a temp control issue. We're gon na probably jump down there and so take a look at it heck. I know I'm gon na change me temp control it that style that's down there. I've said before I don't like it: it's just a crappy controller, so I'm probably gon na go in with a key to therm temp + defrost controller, which will eliminate this defrost clock from the question so plus the defrost clock.
I mean you know: it'll work, fine without it, but it's not pumping the system down. It's just shutting off the compressor. So if I put that key to therm templates, defrost controller it'll it'll, you know pump it down every time it goes into defrost. Now to so.
I'm gon na go ahead and unwire. This already turned off the power switch I'll verify. We have no power, we'll unwire this remove this guy completely and then just throw that kita therm downstairs. I pulled the defrost clock out of the picture. I still haven't tested all the capacitors I'll do that when I come back up, but I want to make sure I'm letting it run right now and I want to see it satisfy that way. I can make sure I didn't mess up the wiring at all from without really thinking about it. It was pretty simple. I just removed one wire and wire nut at two other wires, so there we go unit pumped down and shut off.
So we know that my wiring is correct, so now we're gon na go install the temperature controller with defrost downstairs. This particular control is some weird foreign brand. It comes in the cold pod /rd. I walk in I'm gon na go ahead and replace it like.
I said, put Akita therm, 10-plus defrost controller and be done with it. The only difference is this: one is just a switch and on the key to therm, I'm gon na need a neutral. So it's all good, I'm assuming this is 115 volt. You got, but the plus side is is the key to therm.
10 plus defrost can work on a 208 volt circuit and a 120 volt circuit, so I just got back from vacation and I actually cleaned my van before I went. I wouldn't call it vacation. I was at the a HR show, it was really work, but I cleaned my van. I mean it's not perfect.
You know there's still piles stuff back here, but on the rare occasion that my van is clean, it sure does make it nice when you could just walk out here - and you know where your SJ cord is and temp controls are right over here. So it does make a difference having a clean band but again I'll, be honest with you, mine's usually not clean. This is pretty darn clean for my van. This is a the controller.
I need to get some electrical fittings and a s J cord connector, to go to the bottom of the control to keep it a watertight connection. Hopefully I have one we'll see when I am wiring these. Instead of trying to shove multiple wires, I do individual wires and then just do a wire net and there's three connections, because I'm using a three wire cord here and then I take the ground wire or the green one, and I tape it off and use it As my switched leg, so the the green wire has black tape on it. It's going to the normally open terminal, black incoming line, voltage comes in and splits off to the power, the temp control and the power, the common terminal of the contact and then neutral or common, basically comes up to the obviously neutral terminal, and so I roll I, Like these key to therm temp controls, they really are pretty versatile and I've had a very good luck with them, not very many failures.
If any nothing super fancy we're all wired in. I still got to clean up with zip ties and all that good stuff, but we need to turn it on and hope it doesn't blow up in our face. Let's see what happens, please don't blow up starts on the defrost. The evaporator families are on t5, we're gon na set that down to 35 answer branch off two three, so it goes away. I didn't hold the answer, but long enough compressor starts per our going to change that to zero. You prosper day. We're gon na leave that as six across time, we're gon na leave that everything else is alarms to worry about any of that other stuff solenoid valve works, we're on and running now I just need to clean some things. Up get controls installed back up and over there and then sensitive bulbs installed to where I have a loop on it, so water doesn't drip down into the sensor.
I purposely get it like that and I have it pulled away from the back wall. So it's not touching the metal surface, just getting air temperature, so we're just gon na wait for the Box, come down to temp start putting the side panels on and cleaning it up. Alright, it's been about four days since I was last year. I was here on the weekend, and so I came back out.
I'm gon na go ahead and clean up this evaporator and it's funny because I get here and I left my clamp here - it was still clamped to the suction line and it still has power. So it's been sitting there running for 40 is granted the battery's going dead, it's flashing red, but still that's a trip. I think still has power. Awesome, anyways! Yes, so we're gon na get a water hose out and get this guy cleaned up all right.
So it's really not horrendous, but there's quite a bit of lint on there and it's actually built up inside the coil to what I'm gon na do is I use this guy right here long brush? I just get this at Home Depot, but I'll, throw a link in the show notes, and I try to brush off the bulk of it and then I'll, give it a rinse and then we're gon na flush. The drain too, we've got a drain nipple right there, we're gon na go through and make sure that everything's good, because we don't want all that lint to just plug up the drain drains flowing spray from underneath see. If there's anything stop yeah, some chumps are coming out, so we're gon na, let it keep going and then I'll back flush it from the other end really cool thing about the job link ropes is the ability and and coupled with measure, quick the ability to have My probes down in the box - that's about - I don't know 20 feet below me and have everything up here and be able to have sync with my tablet. A cool thing about measure 42 is you can have multiple probes, so I've got a discharge line.
Temperature probe liquid line probe suction line Pro. You know you can do all kinds of stuff. I've got supply air return air over here. I've got outside air all wireless, so I dig that, but it's just I mean you can do everything without this stuff, but it just puts all the information in one single place.
So it's really nice everything's. Looking good sight. Glass is running clear a lot of times. My suction pressure, according to measure quick, is a little bit low, but I'm not too concerned about it. It's actually pumping down at the moment, but a lot of times. What happens is these coils aren't matched properly oftentimes people oversize the condensing unit, and you know you, you Det necessarily don't always meet your target. 10 degree TD, but everything's. Looking good boxes, maintaining temp, coils clean we're gon na go ahead and put everything together and wrap.
This one up all right, so the original complaint happened on a weekend. It was an overtime call and the customer said the Box temp got really high, but when I got there it was working fine, so those are always peculiar ones. You know again big picture diagnosis. Right, we don't just assume that up.
You know they just made a mistake that shouldn't have called me. I stood there and I watched it and I watched it multiple cycles and I evaluated everything. Okay, I'm always preaching this big-picture diagnosis, but it really. I find that it helps me so much and I you know remember: I make these videos for my own employees, so I'm preaching to them to like you know, just step back all right, so I watched it the first cycle.
It seemed okay, but the second and third cycle it kept coming on higher and higher when it would turn back on that indicated to me that it was more than likely a temperature controller issue. So I made an educated guess, all right, very important term educated guess. I presented the customer with the facts and I said, look here's the deal. You said it wasn't working.
I came here. It was working okay, but I noticed that every once in a while, the temp control, the cut-in temperature goes higher and higher went ahead and got their opinion about him gave him. My opinion said you know what I really think this temp controls the problem and I recommended replacing the temperature controller. Wina hadn't eliminated the defrost clock.
While I was in there because the new kita therm temp Plus defrost, had defrost built-in and it was a better defrost strategy, because now it was controlling the liquid line, solenoid valve down at the evaporator coil, you know systems will run fine if the defrost clock shuts Off the compressor, without pumping it down or turning off a liquid line, solenoid valve, but you do have the potential to have some issues with refrigerant flood back or the refrigerant migrating. I shouldn't say: flood back, but the refrigerant migrating up to the compressor and then causing like you, know the compressor to have a hard time starting. You know. So it's the best strategy that, in my opinion, is to go ahead and have a complete pump down system and then have the defrost clock control the pump down solenoid wherever that's at so that way it stops the refrigerant flow.
So we have it set up that way. Now I did say that the evaporator coil was dirty and I used that as an opportunity to go ahead and come back, because I didn't want to clean that thing on overtime anyways I was. I really wanted to just go home plus I brought it to the customers attention. You know: hey, I'm gon na spend another hour and a half cleaning this thing two hours. Actually, so why don't you go ahead and let me come on back and they were cool with it. You know, so it gave me an opportunity. I came back, I think I said in the video like four days later, went through it everything what they were super stoked. When I came back, they said it's been working, fine, no other issues, but I went ahead and cleaned it up.
Flushed out the drains very important when you're cleaning those evaporator coils to make sure that whenever you brush down in that drain, pan you get out as much of the big stuff you rinse it and I flush the drain forwards and backwards a couple times just to Make sure that we got all any sediment that was stuck in the drain line and everything was good, so we called this one quits and the customer's been happy. It's now been three weeks. I think, since I did that call and all as well. So I really appreciate you guys taking the time to watch these videos.
Do me a favor share these if you guys, like these videos, share them with whoever you think would enjoy them to whoever you think would help. Do me a favor leave me a comment down in the bottom. Give me some feedback. Let me know what you think.
Could I have done something better, I'm always willing to improve and I'm looking to improve so give me some feedback other than that guys. I will catch you guys on the next one: okay.
marvelous vid thank you Chris
Pump down is the way to go 👍
"Need to turn it on and hope it doesn't blow up in our face." Time for a shot gang!
"is it 11:06am" as im watching this at 11:02am damn… Service area Kanata??
Looks like it’d vibrate so much that you can hardly see it and the dial can’t stay in one place
Love your videos, one comment on the taping of the SO cord. I'd tape the switched leg red instead of black. Red usually implies its some sort of control wire, whereas black implies 120vac line voltage supply. Not a big deal if you're the only one working on it, but it may help out the next guy. Keep up the great videos!
i think the solenoid valve was connected to the defrost clock on normally close , at time for defrost the valve closed by the clock en the machine pump down to low pressure and shut off . til the defrost end .
am i right Chris ? sorry my English is not so good 😉
I love the “please don’t blowup”🤣🤣🤣🤣 that is something that I would say
And how is it there is a water hose spicket where ever you go 🙃😂
What kind of fastener did you use to secure the temp probe
amm what gloves do you use, retired I use low voltage stuff but you never know, thank you
Those wireless tools are awesome! Multiple readings in one spot.👍
since you asked on this, i share these with my electrician friends when you get into some gnarly wiring… but mostly just to make them flinch.
Did you go back and fix the time clock to the correct way? lol
re Sight Glass:
1. Is flashing same as bubbling?
2. what does it mean when you see it flashing? not enough refrigerant? poor compressor?
3. what is the correct sight glass indication when compressor is OK?
I am a retired Desk-jockey, computer/IT guy, with many interests. I watch these vids out of general interest and to see a Professional at work, a professional who is deeply interested in doing the job well and thoroughly, one whose primary concern is, strangely, not the flashing dollar signs. Well done Chris!
you want the fans to stay ON. during defrost cycle otherwise it won't melt all the ice off the evap! Service area Barrhaven??
Is that an app for your readings?
I've came across defrost clocks that way as well, what I have found, the N.C. contacts are usually fried, so they use the N.O. and flip the switches backwards, and that can cause another problem, which I have only seen once, and that is, an internal failure and the unit cycling in and out on some of those 15 min sections and not keeping temp, but of course, once you arrive, it is running and everything looks fine. That may have been what was happening here.
Walk-in cooler box temperatures are always critical, and I've had better luck using an electronic temperature control for the walk-in coolers. Freezers I can get away with bulb manual Style. I would have to try to get a low ambient control for that fan on a condensing unit Service area Ottawa??
That's interesting video, thank you Chris
Love your videos man, Real motivating and makes me want to learn even more can’t wait to get back out in the field on Monday!
Good vid. ( Ftngot – For the New Guys out there ) Just a Fyi – its not Legal to install so cord , sjo cord , romex etc to a External Temperature control or External Liquid Line solenoid. I Know we All have done it & still do it. But For the new Guys it Should be in Sealtite or any Liquid tight conduit to be Legal & Pass inspection. Conduit Should be Smooth to Allow for Cleaning. Are you in Kanata ?
How did you get your fieldpiece screen on your app to be like that. Mine is different. And how do you hook up different probes to it.
Couple of questions. First. Why don't you use your temperature controller to control the temperature of the coil, let say 39 degrees cut in and around 15-18 degrees cut off for R-404a ( depending on how the evaporator coil and condensing unit matched . And second, if you know you are coming back in few days why not to put a temperature recorder sensor so when you come back you connect it to your laptop or a tablet and can see temperature fluctuations at specific time. It gives you peace of mind that you really solved the problem and can show it to the customer to make him feel better
I don't like Bluetooth stuff… I can barely even stream Pandora.
So who resets all of those electromechanical defrost timers after blackouts?
Man brain food keep up the good work it's crazy the knowledge to work on a.c…… vent fans ..resturant equipment…on a industrial basis… Are you in Nepean ?
I Love your video. Service area Nepean??
Every time you do your sponsor intro, I hear 'This video is brought to you by Sporlan. Quality. Integrity. Sporlan.'
Before your truck drives away, can your Samsung inventory devices near it?
Chris, thank you for the way you make your videos. I (and I suppose others) appreciate the fact that you use a tripod mounted camera. Others that use GoPro cameras strapped to their heads might have good content, but I just can't watch it….it makes me nauseous with all that motion!
Patience is no virtue Chris great work, great video
When I was learning refrigeration 20 years ago from a tech as hobby, we didn't have these nice probes. I only have a simple Yellow Jacket manifold. It got the jobs done. BTW, nice video.
i would suspect thermostat and timer first…
in the aspect of using the "green wire" as a live or neutral conductor, it should never be (electrical code and standards)
also note it could be a smaller gauge conductor than the others, but that's normally only seen above 10awg wire sizes in feeders and service entrance 🙂
I have that same VW on my shelf
Do you have any videos how install a temp controller that more thorough? I like this vid 👌 but I'm just curious how they are wired from the evap to the controller.
Happy to be in HVAC field, however, can't wait to move on from new installation, and get into service. 2 weeks in, and at 43, I'm feeling it😎 have to start somewhere though, great videos. Soon as I graduate, the family and I want to move to San Diego. Goals.
thanks chris
Hey Chris, could you tell Fieldpiece to get their products over here please ?🇫🇷 Are you in Orleans ?
why did this kind of videos keep appearing on my feed…
Great video and well explained. What was that you used to blast up the drain? Stephen from Belfast .
Nice find sometimes those problems you don't catch em but finding that small problem saves on the long run
"that's interesting" – Joe Rogan 😂 Are you in Ottawa ?
Thanks Chris, great video. I know you like to use the Samsung Galaxy Tab with your FP kit but i had to ditch mine. It was painfully slow….. the live data updating, moving between apps and just a terribly slow tablet. I replaced it with an iPad Mini 4. World of difference, not to mention it fits WAY easier in the FP Job Link case than the Samsung did. Almost like FP designed it for an iPad Mini….🤔
Do Atomic-synced defrost clocks exist? I can imagine every power outage skews a regular clock more.
Just saw the KE2 at Johnstone this afternoon while picking up a relays, encapsulated pressure switch and a defrost heat strip for a Frankenstein project.
Today started at 4am inside a prep table in the middle of the horsemen's cafe changing out a temp control. Kitchen open 4:30am to midnight, tried to avoid crawling underneath the big cook's legs by getting there early!