This was kind of a tricky one as I never found that one problem that said this is it....
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Waterproof mini breakers will tell you a whole lot. I installed a handful on my last system install. I went way overboard though. Gave it its own sub panel: condenser, evap, heating system, condensate pump, controls with lighting is how i have everything seperated for the breaker. I also added 3amp breakers between the controls and coutner parts and added a contactor for the heaters. If anything goes out, controls stay on for data longing and lights stay on. Panel will let you know it its evap or condenser side, fans will blow the 3 amp mini breaker or the fan speed mini breaker. If a heater shorts, the breaker will tell you. My goal was to preserve as much of the equipment as possible in the even of a failer, easy troubleshooting, and keeping the system on in the event of a non critical failure such as a heater. Its on a farm and they have thousands of pounds of grass fed, free-range meat in there so i wanted to do everything I can to mitigate the chance of losses. I went with the KE2 system also to reduce wear on the defrost system.
Do you ever turn the system off and check ohms, L1 to ground, L2 to ground and L3 to ground (post contactor) and post heater wire on the defrost timer. Sometimes it may turn up some numbers that give you a good clue on the direction to look. Sounds like the blown fues was load induced but what load…… also, was it 1, 2 or all 3. If its only 1 and lets say its on L1 while the evaporator is on L2-L3 allows you to rule out the evaporator. But if its on L2 and L3 then that would be a good place to start. Obviously running the compressor on a single phase if L1 went out would take out another but at least it is a starting point.
If it's Y connected and the single phase stuff is on one leg, having 11, 9, 9 would be normal. Are you in Orleans ?
North pac mechanical in oregon would of waited tell the 30 th time to investigate
Ok, I would be looking at the breaker in the panel that feeds the disconnect box. If it is rated at or below the fuse ratings, then it should be tripping with a short. You could simply have a bad connection causing single phasing. If that's the case, then the amps would go sky high on the compressor and blow a fuse. An ICM450 phase monitor would be a good investment and can record single phasing events.
You are going to have a lot of egg on your face if changing 6 or 7 year old equipment doesn't fix this. I would expect at least 15 to 20 years life expectancy. Are you in Kanata ?
This video hurt a little to watch. I once worked subordinate to someone that would see this unit working, wash his hands of it and walk away saying it's fixed.
I'm the type to troubleshoot and track down the issue rather than treat symptoms. I've been reprimanded for "wasting the company's time" taking things apart like you have here.
Good job Chris.
I’m betting on the ecm motors, those things are junk. Please keep us updated. Thanks
Some industries refer to those rogue strands of wire sticking out of terminations as a "George Michael" (Careless whiskers.)
One of the biggest problems with intermittent short circuits is that when they arc they often blow themselves clear and can last for ages between incidents. For me the prime suspect would be the heaters. Not just the evaporator defrost heaters, but the drain and compressor heaters too. Or it might just be that there's a damaged wire or an unexpected cable joint somewhere in the wiring that has been bodged.
The coldroom disconnect full of ice is a possible suspect if it's been causing tracking inside the switch itself. The more waterproof you make stuff like that, the more likely they are to hold it in.
But a very tricky diagnosis, especially when older components do tend to show a bit of insulation breakdown over time. Are the fuses rated for the possibility that the compressor runs on after the heaters have been powered for a defrost, giving a brief higher current?
what about brown outs or storms? I usually install a phase monitor for that
Wow, Chris what a rabbit hole. Loved this one. Cheers from Adelaide, Down Under.
Maybe the fuses LIKE getting blown and the equipment is more than happy to help it out? 🤣
Something not mentioned is the possibility of bad power. Perhaps dropping a phase. It would also be nice to know which of the three fuses went each time. It might eliminate some of the single phase stuff.
I didn’t see you using the other tool in your bag ? Your nose ! You should always inspect with eyes /ears /nose . You can smell a burnt smell that is fine tuned after a while. Great video as always ! Love this channel.
I Would try insulation testing the wire that goes thru that switch. Switch closed of course.
an IR test is an electrical pressure test of the insulation in an electrical installation. Low IR readings indicate leakage current, which can cause equipment frames to become live at mains potential if proper earthing is not provided. Service area Ottawa??
Hey is it possible for future videos to show the exact terminals you’re testing? Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Holy cow, Chris actually had full 208VAC at his incoming for once.
Because the issue is intermittent, I believe all of those minor issues piled up, and under occasional "perfect storm" conditions the current flow is just enough to blow a fuse.
Man where do you get customers who let you replace equipment when you can’t find electrical short?
I would install non electric defrost timer so next time it shorts you have an idea where the issue is
Bad connection is not going to cause to blow fuses on single phase side
This equipment is in really good shape compared to what we work on,
I vote walk in switch. I would also suggest phase monitor at condenser. Are you in Ottawa ?
I'm going with that switch. It was wet, once that happens it's done I wouldn't have been left it that way after seeing those water lines
I would say the switch for sure. Water could still be inside that switch and frozen and sometimes when it thaws/refreezes it could be intermittently shorting to ground
I am always shocked by the shittyness of american electrical gear. But the disconnects are nice :D…..and the various heavy gage metalflex and metal rigid conduits.
Looking at the big picture here… I see like 500 things that could potentially pop that fuse intermittently, but that waterlogged switch and it’s seal-tight conduit are what’s jumping out at me. But of course, due to it being an intermittent issue… of course the problem doesn’t occur while you’re there. 🤣
Replacing equipment because you can’t find a short… part changer?
If you have phase and or voltage issues phase lose relays may be a good idea to automatically shut down equipment if any phase goes below a certain voltage, maybe add a notification device so they know to be extra conscious of open doors when the equipment is not running, possibly also a mechanical latching contactor as a tell tale that would get latched by the phase loss relay and only manually reset so you know when a power issue has happened when you next come out, that alone if you can't auto shutoff would at least tell you equipment vs power issue so you know if you can just replace the fuse or need to do something more.
good job as always those electric shorts can be a real bear to find stay safe
If i used that much time on a working system some of my former bosses would go nuts
I do see where you're going. You don't want to be paying someone to just roam around changing fuses all the time
That current draw makes sense if one motor is across A+B and the other is A+C.
Thank you for the videos. They are an excellent source for those who are considering buying equipment for a commercial kitchen. Your thought process when diagnosing things is a lot like mine.
It was great work putting a new gasket for the switch. That will keep the water in for sure.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
Good job Chris. I learn something every time I watch. Service area Nepean??
Nice meter!
why not using ferrule?
I had a pumpdown solinoid coil intermittently shortin to ground once nobody could find that was tripping breaker. Replace entire unit not even a decide old w out checking that?.. naah
Is that factory wiring on the contactor? If a tech did the work he needs some OJT. Service area Kanata??
658 Thumbs UP Are you in Barrhaven ?
As standard practice do your tech document which fuse (left, right, center) was blown? If they changed different fuses it just goes back to beat down equipment. If they both changed the same fuse, that helps diagnose which leg is the issue.
Something that confuses me, computers can keep time when they lose power, they do it using a CMOS battery which is a tiny coin cell battery, it lasts for years. Can't defrost clocks use such technology? Are you in Nepean ?
Great video, we had this issue several times. Safety tip. Use a wooden pencil instead of your finger to check for shorted wires, you won't get buzzed near as often Service area Barrhaven??
I’d venture to guess the fuses are blowing from a service supply voltage drop out. If one of those legs, specially the single one that was drawing an extra amp or so, drops off to 100v or whatever it will double the amperage through that fuse. I’ve heard you mention that you guys have service supply issues sometimes. There could also be another appliance in the building that has a huge inrush current when turning on that is only drawing on one of those legs pulling the voltage down. See if there is any equipment that they only use 1-2 times a month and I’ll bet you’ll find your answer
I've noticed you using an sc460 and an 1587sc. If you had the chance, would you still buy both, or would you buy all the bells and whistles for the 1587sc?
Your defrost heaters can change the insulation value as they heat up but if your tripping a breaker your looking for below a meg. Everything changes insulation with heat and it can be a pain but as for values I've had brand new elements that were below 2 Meg and worked fine? We're told they should be over 5 but if you can't buy one that high what do you do??
On heat tape you can meager it for grounded and insulation test
A lot of minor issues can be the equivalent of a major issue.
I ALWAYS skip the intro and I ALWAYS skip the ending commentary. I came here to see the work being done in the field. To me, everything else is just filler and not worth my time. Nevertheless, great video, great job!
I disagree that minor issues only. A switch enclosure and conduit full of ice/water can energize the box and stray current so dangerous….The restaurant at least proactive with new equipment. Great call and big picture exam!
🇺🇸👍💪❄ Great discipline and patience 💪
“Fly aways” is the main reason why you need to use wire ferrules on the terminations.
"Be careful, obviously" (bare hands)
1Mohm is good, 10Mohm and above is great. No problem there.
If the previous two fuses blown were on the high voltage leg, and that leg corresponded with the high amp leg on the compressor, would that make that leg on compressor motor suspect?