This episode of the HVAC school podcast is made possible by dan Foss. You probably have worked with many dan Foss parts over the years, but dan Foss makes compressors valves controls. Variable frequency drives a whole range of different products, for the HVAC are and controls industries and they're the ones making this particular episode possible, and it was actually their idea even the content of the episode. So big thanks to Dan Foss, for making this episode possible dan Foss engineering tomorrow today and now the man wanted in 43 states for possession of PVC glue with intent to Huff Brian or all right.

This is the HVAC school podcast and I am Brian. This is the podcast that helps you remember some things that you might have forgotten along the way, as well as remember some things that you forgot to know in the first place, and today we're talking to those of you who are early in your career or maybe Even haven't even started in the HVAC business, so we get a lot of questions about HVAC, school trade, school trade, education that sort of thing what the optimum system is, how to find a school, and so rather than me talking about it. From my perspective, which I do and I do give my perspective in this podcast, I wanted to talk to a couple. People who have just recently come out of a trade education and get a little bit of their perspective on what it was like, and maybe some tips that they have for those of you who are considering it all right.

So here we go. This podcast is all about best practices for HVAC education. I found two tanks willing to come on the podcast one from Texas and another from Illinois. My name is Jeremy, Arnold, I'm actually in Belleville Illinois, which is about 20-25 minutes from st.

Louis Missouri, both of them from pretty different marketplaces, different mixes of the type of work that they do and a lot of different experiences before they got into HVAC school. Actually, I was welding for 15 years beforehand. I got on the welding started. Doing some research and HVAC was always something that interests me, I guess, and when to school us for the first couple of months I wasn't working, I would say about the second semester is when they had companies come in and talk with some of the students that Were top of the class - and I was one of the ones that got picked and the instructors in the job would work with us on getting the school finished and sort of worked in part-time, and once you got out that's when they would do like a full Interview and let you come on full-time, so that's what I did.

My parents tried to get me to go whenever I graduated out of high school, but at that time I was more interested in partying and chasing women. So I didn't listen to him. It took working a bunch of crappy jobs for about 10 years and finally, I just had enough and decided to go back to school and I've always been mechanically inclined and went to school, and did it I've been happy ever since I asked both of them what Their general experience of trade school was, I don't want to talk about upon. The schooling I mean school has definitely has got me a leg up out here in the field.

Was it what I expected? No, it was more when you asked a question. You got the answer. What's in the book, which I can see them doing that to help you out being go figure it out, that's the only way you're gon na learn, but at the same time it's like come on. Do a little one-on-one with me or I show the whole classroom whatever you have to do and they got to the point.

In the last semester I almost quit and just went out started working, but I decided not to do that. I think the best thing it definitely helped me fly him now, because there's a lot of things that I'm doing that these texts are out here that they've never seen before and that they never heard of, especially with like the theory of HVAC, and all that you Can explain things a little bit better? I guess I graduated in December of 2017, so I'm basically eight months out of school. How long were you in school? You know what it was a two-year program that I did and a year and a half, but I took as many classes as I could and wanted to get it done as fast as I could. Was it a certificate, or what did you come out with? They offered a certificate and a degree, but from my research a degree didn't pay any more than their certificate did.

So I just went ahead and did the certificate that way I could get out in the field quicker. Many tanks who are gon na go into trade school or who are just finishing up and getting out, may want to know what's different between the field and what it's like in trade school. It's definitely thought of in the classroom, definitely hotter than what you think in our classroom. We were fortunate to be brazing on these sort of tables that were four feet off the ground.

You had air conditioning on your back if the floor wasn't covered and sawdust and insulation, and you get out there and some of these homes or made to have a season um but shut them up in there. And you have two feet of space that you have to crawl into allowing you're back in the joint is five inches from the floor, so it's definite little bit different. When you get out there and you'll realize it real fast. You know what it is way different because, like I said initially, school was very good: it's good for teaching the basics, the cycles and getting the terms under your belt, but towards the end of school.

I really wasn't learning too much, but I think that was due to the instructors, but in the field for me was kind of no training. I rode around with somebody for a week learning how to do cleaning checkups on for summertime, and then they just threw me out there by myself. It was kind of like a baptism and fire. It's not the way I wanted it to go, but I've learned a lot.

I haven't really messed anything up yet, but I'm still learning definitely every day if you could formulate so being so close to school. I'm gon na ask this question. I don't think I've ever asked anybody. This question before I'm gon na ask you if you could create an ideal training program that you didn't have the constraints of the field versus school versus whatever, but you could set up the ideal situation for learning that included all the different elements.

What would that look like? In my opinion, the best thing that I could do is definitely do a book work. Everybody says you don't mean book work, but I disagree. That's where you get the theory from if you can read about it and then get hands-on knowledge and almost have like an apprenticeship type thing. In my opinion, that's the best way to go and it don't have to be union or non-union or anything like that.

Just an apprenticeship where you can ride around with somebody who knows the trade pretty well get your hands on that way, and you got somebody there that can explain it to you, yeah it's! It makes it a little bit. I mean I hate to use a millennial. Lingo here, but it makes it a little bit safer when you got somebody looking over your shoulder, who can tell you, I don't do that it's kind of a thing, but you still get that hands-on experience Devon. That's the way I was trained.

I went to school for about a year and then, when I went into the field, I rode around with people, for I don't know four months, something like that for five months and some really good tacks. They weren't perfect. They didn't always have the best practices, but they had a good sense of the trade, and I picked up a lot of that practical knowledge from them cuz. If I would have been stuck into a truck right after I came out of school, I would have screwed up a lot of stuff.

I know it because there are so many things I didn't know coming out of school, even though I have a theory, and I was strong on that side of it just very practical stuff. I remember when I first got into a truck and we're riding around and he says: do you have a 5/16 nut-driver I saw I mean I know what 5/16 says, but why would I have a 5/16 nut-driver and he's like well cuz? That's what all the panel's come off with I'm like I didn't know, there was a standard size. I figured every time he had to take a panel off. You had to go digging through your socket set or something I didn't realize.

There was a 5/16 in quarter inch and then he said well, do you have a six and one screwdriver, I'm like what's a six and one screwdriver and he grabs my screwdriver out of my hand and he pulls it apart and flips it around? Oh, my god. I didn't know it did that, of course I was kind of a dumb kid. I was only 17 at the time, but there's a lot of little things like that, and that's an extreme example. But there's tons and tons of little things like how to pull out a blower housing without taking out more screws and you have to or how to do a good maintenance on a furnace depending on the type of furnace that it is and there's a lot of.

Little things like that that are hard to teach in the classroom right and you know what I've had to figure out a lot of that stuff on my own, but I'll be honest with you. There's texts that are my job, that I've been doing it for years and still aren't doing things. In my opinion, the proper way whenever they vacuum down a suit, for instance, we just changed txp and they didn't have a micron gauge or anything on they just vacuumed. It for 30 minutes and they called it good, was just something I disagree with that's something that I think is an example of one of the common ones.

So you've got the 30 minute vacuum one and a half smokes or two smokes whatever worth of a vacuum or the not flowing nitrogen. While brazing is an example of a really common one. There's a bunch of little ones like that that technicians, just don't practice regularly and I think, there's a side of it. So how would you advise a technician? Who's coming out of school who's? Maybe learned all these I'm doing air quotes here.

The right way of doing things who end up in a company where it's not necessarily done that way. How do you go about having those conversations or maybe not having them in a way that doesn't cause you to be ostracized? I base it off the person. Some people go into this trade because they think oh, I'm gon na make decent money at it. So that's what I'm going to do, but there's other people who are really into it like really nerdy about it word, that's kind of where I fit where I never stop.

Learning I'm constantly reading, I'm always listening to your podcast or reading research or constantly learning that way. I can be a better technician if you're, just learning from somebody at the company you're only going to be as best of a technician as the worst one there. Whereas I strive to have perfection so to say, and I'm not saying that I'll become perfect. But I never stop learning and trying to advance and learn better methods in life right.

So what you're saying is is that if you have somebody who's more that way, then maybe you could bring it up to them. But if it's your average technician, I shouldn't say average but like a lot of Tech's are or they really don't care, they're just doing it to collect a paycheck. Maybe it's not worth wasting your breath on it. Then right or you know the technician.

That's! Oh. I've been doing it for 30 years and I've always been fine. I got one of those he's a great guy, but he's kind of set in his ways. Another thing that surprises me is a lot of text.

Don't do subcooling and a superheating reading unless they're charged in a system. They don't gather all that data to make a diagnosis on a system. They think that it's only prairie charging something yeah. There's a lot of different things like that and that's where sometimes even text get confused.

Cuz yeah - I don't know if you listen to the podcast where Jim and I talk about checking the charge without gauges and a lot of texts. Think that means that you're taking fewer readings when in fact doing it that way actually requires a deeper knowledge of the equipment to do it properly. It's not just doing beer-can cold. It's far from that, it's actually extending the knowledge that you have in order to be less invasive in the equipment.

So there's all kinds of things like that out there that once you start to get more and more familiarize with the equipment and familiarize with your readings that you get even better and better as a technician as you go. So it's tough, sometimes, and because I was the same way when you have all this stuff that you want to practice in the field and then you're working at a place where they're, not bad people, I mean. Obviously, there are some bad people out there, but I want to state that just because somebody doesn't do things by the book doesn't make them a bad person, but it does mean that they're, maybe not providing the service, that their customers are hoping that they will, which Is something that I think a lot of us are uncomfortable with? I know I certainly am right. Well, that's the same way.

What like the vacuuming down the system, unless I know I can get it down to a 500 micro vacuum, then I'm not comfortable pumping the system back up and leaving because I've seen it where they've done their 30-minute vacuum checks and then their pressures were off and They left to me that I'm not comfortable with that. I don't want to leave unless it's working as close to perfect as I can get it now. I've done a video on this and you can go back and look it up by just typing in ERC 213 on YouTube on our channel. But I did a video of using the danfoss universal control for a couple different things.

But in the video that I show primarily I'm showing it installed in a reach-in freezer and I kind of show how you can set it up and how versatile it is, and we've been really happy with the ERC 213 it's made by dan Foss. It is a universal refrigeration control that can be used for low temper temper fridge eration. You have a lot of different options with how you do defrost a lot of different options with the sensors and it's just a really nice kind of all-around quality. Digital control.

That can be used for technicians out there. It's a good one to keep on your truck. If you run into it's an old electromechanical control, that's having issues or you need that little additional level of control. It's the standard size that slides into most common regions and even walk in type applications, and it's just a nice solid, around control.

That is the ERC 213 from dan Foss and you can find it in most of your quality, refrigeration supply houses near you all right. Here we go back to the podcast, so I asked both of them. What were some of their top tips for going into trade school in the first place? It's funny, because I was fortunate to be working and we're all going to school. I already knew about that, especially with the brazing thing.

I'm I'm big on that. If you can as much as you can take that braze joint and if you possibly can get it three or four five six inches off the floor, try braising it off the floor. Definitely taking it outside and the heat get used to stuffy situations for sure. Where there's not a lot of insulation, there's definitely hot if they're hotter than the classroom for sure what about tools wise.

So how did you make that transition? Because when you go from forename classroom to field a lot of guys acquiring the right tools, if you do it all at once, does your employer provide it or have you done piecemeal? How did you go about? I was talking to an old technician and he told me every time you get paid spent some money on a tool, and I started doing that after I got the job and invested when I got into school. I had pretty much everything I even needed even down to digital gauges, the estimates and that technique worked out for me. Pretty well, of course, pay your bills and all that stuff. But if you can try to buy a tool from 20 to 50 dollars every week or every time you get paid and you'll eventually get it at the school I was at, they had a tool loaner program and you could actually keep the tools for up to Six months or something like that after you got out, I didn't qualify for that program, but certain schools may have it so made known if you qualify definitely take advantage of something like that because they can.

I know the one I went to you had to have every single tool by the second semester, and it was well over two grand. Oh, no, it's a big investment tools worth it definitely is. It definitely is. I would say that it's not just something you go to school for and you learn and you're done, and then you get a job to me.

It's a lifelong career of constantly learning, it's the trade with homework. That's how I like to say it because you'll never quit learning you're, always gon na, learn and find out something new and the technology constantly outruns faster than you can learn it as soon as you learn something. Then they come up with something new and then you got to relearn, something which is an advantage if you're kind of nerdy and like learning new things, but it can be frustrating if you're not into that kind of thing. When I was in school, we never went over any of the DC stuff and then, when I gotten out into the field, I got thrown out into we're primarily Linux type brand, but there's lots of DC Linux out there.

I've had to come home and research that myself, because I'm by myself, I don't have somebody out there. What is this right here? What does this do so? I take pictures of it and then I come home and Google manuals or look it up until I can find the answer that I'm looking for yep or hey. If you get really stuck, you can always post it in the HVAC school Facebook or open. Have us beat you up about it right, hey I'll, take any kind of knowledge I can get.

I never stop. I constantly like to learn back to your one question. That's kind of what makes it good or a successful day to me is: if you learn something, then you feel like you accomplished something, so I asked Jeremy in Blake if they would do anything differently if they had to do their trade education all over again. Actually, yes, there would be when I first started out working and going to school on the working side, not school life, but in the field I would have been more assertive with the senior Tech's.

There was a lot of times where I really wanted to put my hands on things, and I know I could have done it and they were telling me. No, let me do it just watch. I would definitely be more assertive saying no, I'm out here. I'm trying to learn this stuff, I have to grasp it and definitely get your hands on your tools and the equipment as much as possible, don't be as scared of the electrical side of it just respect it don't be scared of it not too much.

Be scared of it, but not not a lot. Well, I wish I would have started whenever I got out of high school when my parents suggested it back in 2004. I'd done it earlier. The only other thing I would have tried to do is find an apprenticeship, but it seems like almost now to get an apprenticeship.

You almost have to go to school. To show that you're serious about it. You got a better chance of getting an apprenticeship. If you got like a certificate or some sort of schooling under your belt or experience, my best advice would be is try to get somebody to apprentice with you yeah, I think you've got it.

Right, though, is that a combination of really three things makes for an ideal education. First thing before you even get into the three: is you've got to have a person who wants to learn, so you don't want to learn, then you're not gon na learn. This isn't the type of trade that's gon na, be spoon-fed to you and I think a lot of people, especially my generation and younger we're, may be expecting education to be spoon-fed and that's just not how our trade works then find a good school find a place That you're gon na get a good, solid trade education, but then look for an apprenticeship. I think we definitely need an increase in apprenticeship in this country where they do this in Canada, and I think it's a really great practice where you have kind of an established process where you go through and you learn things and then you go back into the Class and then you go back into the field and you learn some more and you apply it and you go back to the class and it's kind of a consistent back and forth and I think in a lot of places you can find that my kalos were Happy to do that sort of thing with people and then sorry that sounded like an added in meaning to, but it's just a good practice.

It's just a great way to develop people and then finally, always be looking for things to supplement your education and that can be within your organization that can be reading books like a refrigeration, air conditioning technology manual or the Aquarius book commercial refrigeration for air conditioning texts. Those are a couple good ones, but in addition to that online, listening to podcasts watching videos, there's getting to be more and more really good education out there as long as you're able to find the ones that are good and not the ones that teach you the Wrong way, but if you have those three, the formal education, the apprenticeship style, where you get your hands on and then using your resources, manufacturers should put out a lot of really great stuff as well. Then I think that makes for a pretty grounded tack and you don't necessarily have to take as long as maybe some people think it does. It still takes a couple years to get through it all, but I think you end up having pretty good earning potential in a really good career.

If you follow those tips, what do you think? I agree? Absolutely I mean you're only going to be as good as a tack as you allow yourself to become, if you just doing it as a job, then you're never going to become a top tech, definitely the more education you have and the more stuff. You know the more money you're going to make the better tech you're going to be hey thanks for listening to this podcast. I know it was different. This was sort of a special episode and, like I said, the idea for this episode came from Dan Foss and I appreciate it.

I think it's a good topic, especially for those looking to get into the trade and it's nice to get these questions answered. I think the kind of the result of this is that if you want to learn something you really want to learn it, then you will and using schooling using field education, apprenticeship and then finding other resources to help answer questions that you have along the way. That's how you do it and you don't get there overnight. This is not a simple trade by any stretch of the imagination, so it's gon na.

Take you some time. Everybody has an opinion about how much time that should take, but it really depends on the person. Obviously, some people pick things up a little quicker than others. It was always easy for me to understand the theory, but it took me a little while to get the practice down, I'm not good at math in the like measuring things and making it all line up.

In angles and those sorts of things it's never been natural to me. So when I was doing change-outs early in the business, I didn't always get it right. The first I'm and people would laugh at me, but I think we all have our different strengths and weaknesses. So some things will come quickly and some will take longer and it's gon na vary person to person, but I think it's a great trade.

I would encourage you to get into it and, if you do have a love of learning definitely get the theory and the book stuff and look for a good quality trade. Education. Look for an apprenticeship, if possible, with a good quality company. That's gon na teach you to do it the right way and actually require that you do it the right way and then also find some resources that will help you along the way like hopefully, HVAC school is for you all right, that's all for now.

As always, you can find more trade oriented podcasts by going to blue-collar roots. Comm we've got quite a few over there that you can check out. You can also listen to the HVAC school podcast right on our website at HVAC, our school.com. You know that.

Obviously i had a baby recently and that's gone really well, she's really healthy, but the last time I went to the doctor for myself, I had a really wrinkly shirt on and when I walked into the doctor he said well clearly you have an iron deficiency that Joke was not funny. Alright, thanks for listening, we will talk to you next time on the HVAC school podcast. Thanks for listening to the HVAC school podcast, you can find more great HVAC our education material and subscribe to our short daily tech tips. By going to HVAC our school comm, if you enjoy the podcast, would you mind hopping on iTunes or the podcast app and leave us a review? We would really appreciate it.

See you next week on the HVAC school podcast.