This was a service call for a burning smell from an AC unit. I found several problems while I was there including the sources of the burning smell.
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Okay, so it's really early in the morning, it's about 6:00. I think, or something like that, and we had a service call to this restaurant, that last night they had to call the fire department because they had smoke everywhere and supposedly the fire department came out and shut off every a/c unit and told them to call the Hvac guys so, apparently it's in the HVAC unit, so I started with this unit right here. I don't have a manager here, yet I just have a cook that opened up the door. For me, I don't see anything, but I could smell an electrical burn and two of the ACS I've opened up so far.
I'm just looking for anything jumping out of my face right now: nothing crazy, yet motors turn and everything so we're just opening up the HDS one by one individually, opening up the heat exchangers, seeing if there's anything, it's pretty cold outside nothing, crazy. Yet no cracked tubes on that unit, so now I'm opening this unit up going through it just checking everything out, nothing's jumping out at me as of yet but as the Sun comes up the roofs starting to get really icy and it's very slippery. This is like one of those: it's not a PTO roof, but it's just epoxy coated. So it's starting to get real icy up here, but there's a strong electrical burning smell in both of these ACS.
So far, but the motors - and I mean I haven't energized anything yet, but we're just going to go through and check every AC. Let's see if we go so this unit is the one that the smell is the strongest and we're gon na start. Here I checked three-phase power at the disconnect it has it. The fuses are good powers turned off we're gon na go and power up this unit, fire up the end or blower motor.
I pulled the bottom of the end or blower motor to to inspect the electrical. Don't see anything going on in there, but this it's got a really strong burning smell. I have a feeling we got a motor, that's bad, I'm gon na before I fire it up, though I'm gon na check everything your ground just to make sure and we'll fire it up and see what happens and we'll don't want it. It still troubleshooting, but I'm one step closer, so I went ahead and fired this unit up so far.
It's running good. I mean it's old, but surprisingly, this thing goes now: a cracked heat exchanger definitely got a loose belt. I'm sure you guys can hear that squeaking. I've got a fired in heat mode right now, it's looking good so far, but I think I figured out what was going on.
The the cook downstairs doesn't really know, but I'm just looking around. I went ahead and turned on all their exhaust fans, but I noticed I checked out the make up air units too, and I noticed that this make up air unit was shut off, it doesn't smell burnt, but there's a bunch of white powder all over the place. So I have a feeling that this motor is bad and it was smoking and I'm my theory is that it was blown into the kitchen and the smoke was getting sucked throughout the dining room. That's my theory.
I don't know if that's the case yet what strange those I don't have a burning smell on this one, but I'm still going through my troubleshooting process. So I turned on all the exhaust fans and turned off both of the make up air units and I'm slowly. Turning the ACS on one by one, putting the building into a mass of negative air pressure by shutting off the make up air units. So that way, hopefully we can suck out some of this smoke smell because it it's pretty strong in these ACS. So I'm gon na let this guy run for a bit, definitely need to get that insulation cut off, because that's gon na rub up against the heat exchanger as it has been sit there and melt off, but so we're just going through the troubleshooting. Okay. Now we're on to the next unit, I tightened up the belt on this one checked everything check three-phase power to the disconnect. First, it was shut off check the disconnect load side to ground; nothing checked all the contactors to ground to nothing energize the unit.
I spun all the motors you know pulled the bottom of the motor inspected, everything energized the unit fired up the end or blower motor with jumpers right now, indoor blower motors running fine and Hampton fine, it's not over amping. So now I'm going to going to fire up the heat they got the fire department. It looks like they shut off the gas to two, these two ACS, so yeah, that's what we're going we're just going to keep on going. Of course, I will check a lot more, but so far the heat is fired, just to be safe.
What I'm doing is I'm leaving the supply covers off to try to pull some of the air out of the building. Hopefully you get some of that electrical burn. Wherever it's coming from, I still think it might be coming from that maker unit, but I'm gon na let these heaters run man. I hate on these old units how this stuff is peeling off this insulation.
It's all! I worry that it's gon na melt, but anyways. So we're just still checking everything wants bigger something out with that, so starting to kind of worry me a little bit, but again, I'm just going through everything one at a time. I've got every one of these units fired up this one right here this one this one when I just fired this. One kind of surprises me that this one's heaters working, none of these components, look like they've ever been changed, seen it's like, probably from 92.
It's kind of crazy. I think this thing's still working a hundred percent, but anyways my mom fired everything. I still can't replicate this burning smell. I went through the restaurant cuz, they had a bunch of ceiling, tiles removed, made sure all the lights were good.
There was no electrical shorts in the attic, I'm just trying to replicate this now. I definitely have issues with those make upper units, but I got confirmation from the person that was here last night that it definitely wasn't coming from the kitchen. So that's what concerns me. So this make-up air unit right here is missing the filters. I don't know if you guys can see this, but there's a giant bag inside of the floor. We all wrapped up inside of it and then this makeup air unit over here it's got a bunch of white powder all over the blowers, pulley and stuff, but the motor doesn't smell fun. You can see. Like looks like it's burnt out.
I haven't again. I haven't gotten to that yet because I'm just focusing on the ACS, basically, they weren't opening the building. Until I get that okay, so I just gave them the okay to open it and we're just kind of watching these units run. I'm not gon na leave.
I'm gon na hang out for a while today to see because I don't want it to happen as soon as I leave. I don't know if it's an electrical like a can light that was shorting out or something you know I I don't know so. This is just one of those things. This is a customer that you know it's a good customer of mine, so I'm gon na babysit this one and make sure that there are a hundred percent.
I don't want to leave and then have an electrical short, even if it ends up being an electricians problem or something I'm at least going to try to find the problem. So just you know one at a time running these units we're not in a hurry. We're not in a rush, I'm firing them just letting them run. Go downstairs, check everything out, make sure the burning smell is not there.
I actually have a technician, bringing a bunch of air fresheners for me, we're gon na put in those little tubs of air freshener. Crap inside all the returns to try to get some of this electrical burn out of the ductwork I just anyway. So that's where we're at so this makeup. Air unit is the one that had the giant bag stuck in it.
So what I did was, I was already powered off. I cut the bag out and then before I started it back up. Also this on these old supreme makeup air units, there's just a couple screws and that whole filtered louver thing lifts right up. Obviously, the filter missing is why there's a bag stuff in there so, but before I powered it on, I went ahead and cleaned, although as much of the debris out as I could and then vacuumed it out real quick because it was gon na blow it right Back downstairs when you're working on forced air makeup area or makeup air units that blow air back down into the building, you got to be cautious about turning them on.
If you powered them down for a long time like a swamp cooler or something like that, that's been off for a long time, especially if it's been windy, the ducts will be full of sand and different things. So you've got to usually let the kitchen staff know because you don't want to dust out all their food that they're cooking so but anyway, so this is running now so far, so good, so we're just doing it one thing at a time just being cautious. I still have yet to find the culprit. What I did do, though, was I had another tech. Bring me a bunch of these silly little air fresheners, be honest with you. I've never really found a need for these things, but uh I put two of these because they didn't have the big ones two of these in every return to try to neutralize the odors from the electrical burn so and it seemed to work pretty good. I went downstairs right now, they've been running in there for about 20 minutes and you don't really get the electrical burning smell anymore, but everything is kicking on these things. Man, I mean we're running.
That's a little hard away. This heater has been running for a while. Now I'm actually gon na power this one down, but yeah everything's, kicking dude, so we'll see turn off the heater and yeah just going through one at a time. So now I've got that little make up air unit left the one that looked like it had a burnt-out motor.
So I've already said that I don't like how this insulation is all back and melted, and I was looking at something back here on this limit switch, and I noticed that this is all melted. This was wrapped around the wire and what secured the wire to the wall there's a hole going through to the compressor section right there, this stuff had melted. This is like cork tape almost or something doesn't really seem like something that's very smart to put in there. But what concerns me is is why was it getting that hot in there to melt this, so I'm probably gon na have to throw my manometer on this and see.
What's going on with that gas valve see what kind of pressures we're running make sure we don't got something funky going on we'll see I'm gon na secure these, so they don't touch. I pulled the limit switch apart inspected and I mean it doesn't look amazing, but it's a it's fine. It's not burnt, but this piece right here smells massively like an electrical burn, really bad and it's just it's just rubber or something that's completely. Melted, interesting the wires.
Not broken, but the jackets broken in a couple spots where this is the heat-resistant wire. This thing is just beat down really time for them to consider replacing this unit along with all the rest of these, but we'll see keep up. So this has been driving me. Nuts - but I think I just found it look at this - smells really burnt.
That would explain an electrical burn right there that guy plugs into that that's all burnt out. I don't know why it's not shorting out on me right now. This thing was driving me nuts trying to find this problem. I still want to go through and check the pressure on the gas valves to make sure that they're not over firing or anything, but that's it right.
There drive me nuts man when you find that stuff. You get excited all right, so boy that was early morning so started out the previous night. I got a call like 11:30 at night saying they had to shut down this restaurant early. The fire department came out. They were hoping that I could be there like. 6:00 a.m. the next morning, you know so I was cool with it. I got back out there, but here's where everything kind of fell apart.
When I got there, there was a cook and they couldn't get a hold of the manager. That was there the previous night and so that just kind of led me down a wild goose chase, so I didn't know where to really start. So you guys kind of saw my investigative process you know had. I had better communication, as this is exactly where it was you know.
Had we've been able to get a hold of the person, it would have been a little bit faster, but it is what it is so started out by diagnosing or are going through. Every single air conditioning unit, okay, I wanted to know exactly what it was so I fired the heaters and everyone fired the air conditioning and everyone. Everything ran fine, but you did see how I kind of like with my my troubleshooting processes. I found you know: bags stuck in the large make up air unit found a motor that was bad on the small make up air unit, but none of those were the problems.
Those were just other things that I found. While I was there, I ended up finding the problems. Okay, there was actually two of them. There was the the wiring jacket or the stuff that was securing the wiring to the wall that had melted, okay and then also there was the electrical short on the wiring harness for the the heating section of the other unit.
It was interesting. Okay, I'm still like wasn't super comfortable leaving the restaurant, but what I ended up doing was after I fixed those problem. I ended up having another tech come in behind me because right away, I had another emergency call right after here, but I was I was at this particular restaurant with the burning issue till 2 o'clock in the afternoon, from like 6 tell to going through every single Unit but um I had another tech come out and replace the blower motor on that small make upper unit. I pulled the plastic bag out of the big maker upper unit and then I had my other tech come in behind me and check the gas pressures on those two units too, and he had he did adjust them down a little bit.
I'm still concerned - and I warned the customer that that you know the heat exchangers on those units are not in good shape. They don't have any cracks or visible holes that I could see at this time and I did run a carbon monoxide detector across them too. While they were running just to make sure we weren't having any CEO coming out of him, nothing came up, but I did warn them and kind of told them. Basically, this is probably gon na be the last heating season they get out of those things unless they want to go in and replace heat exchangers.
But those are the old Sunline units and I don't know they're made by York and I know two years ago I was able to get the heat exchangers for those. But you know, as those things get older and older you're not gon na be able to get parts for them anymore and the heat exchangers for those things. It's usually it's a pretty it. Doesn't it's not hard, but there's a lot of components you have to replace, and you know a lot of the stuff is really difficult to get. I know that was the problem. Two years ago and two years ago, I had to change seven of them how one restaurant, because they didn't want to change the units believe it or not, but anyways. I digress so fix the electrical short secured. The wires on the other unit went through everything else.
Put the air fresheners in there, everything was working fine. It's now been about two weeks since I formed that service call. They haven't had another problem there, so that was just an interesting one. You know you can't rush through some of that stuff because you know had.
I left saying I couldn't figure it out. You know we potentially would have had the fire department out there again and who knows maybe something would have caught on fire next time. So you know you got ta. Just take your time.
You know and troubleshoot you got to use your skills and go through it all. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to watch my videos, please consider subscribing to my channel. If you haven't already leave me some feedback down in the YouTube comments. I really like to see that stuff guys I like to interact with you guys check out the other channels, I'm recommending right now and other than that.
I will see you guys on the next one. Okay, you.
I always get a little panic feeling when somsomeone says they smell smoke at my warehouse. I have over a million tires that would go for months. Thx for the great video guy.
Iโd call the fire department and ask them some questions Are you in Orleans ?
York even exist anymore? Didnโt colman buy them out in the 90โs?
freaking funny, ive had that happen to me once, i started a swamp cooler and all that dust n debris went downstairs, the cooks were pissed because some of that debris went into the boiling pot of beans. i never saw them make a new batch though.
Probably it makes sense to install smoke detectors at the units the older they are…more things can go wrong with them. At least the unit will shut down before things get out of control
So your HVAC so do you get a service call from Ottawa if we have HVAC units ?
Goodman's are especially known for cracked h/e. If I'm on a rooftop Goodman even in the summer I try to check the heat exchanger if I'm going to do a decent size repair in case it's better to just replace. Love the videos man keep it coming!
Why do these units have a dedicated heating section, rather than using the refrigeration unit as a "heat pump"?
I know you was busy sleeping but wouldn't been better to checkout that night the smoke issue when it was fresh and when manger was on duty and charge them emergency service also to do it just in case it didn't flare back up and recatch on fire
I would add a AFCI per unit, just as a piece of mind. That breaker would just have turned the unit off without a fire department call and you would have known exactly which unit had an issue ๐
electrical burn…….magic smoke
Wow you amaze me I'm a master electrician and just to know that you have to know Cooling circuits
relays along with Advanced Computer Integrations systems is amazing
Its called being observant. Many folks dont have that abillity.
In robot those York ganesh look there there are good you tough unit of York and much better and then the stinking carriers York's been around a long time run a long time
So many other techs would miss that! Great work and these folks are LUCKY. Old York units cause fires
Did the duct detectors fail or were they not installed? Why didn't they trip?
I posted this before the video, he probably covered it.
Just so I understand, the air fresheners fixed the issue?
Speaking as a current graveyard shift worker, while watching this I kept thinking "well hey at least the sun's finally coming up!" ๐
Corny jokes aside, did you ever figure out the cause for that burnt out wire connector?
take your time to diagnose. yeah, i have to tell myself that everytime i go and do some programming. all of my largest projects have had numerous bugs and they were all the pain in the butt to find ones and in the one place that can't be diagnosed simply by the program behavior. guess this video was just like my programs.
all this time I thought he was saying MAKE-A-BEAR ๐ lol
searched all spellings; no results ๐
not realizing what the word REALLY was was Make-Up Air ๐
I've been in the biz going on 5 years. Between fundamentals and some advanced knowledge that's the biggest hurdle I'm trying to jump is being more detail oriented. What you did is a fine example of due diligence and detail. Great find loooooong day but great find. Service area Orleans??
Thanks so much for this video and all the others too. Like some other responders, I get nervous after a couple hours of no trouble found. Still, you have to keep after it. Service area Ottawa??
We have never had any issues with our York Millennials.
I heard alot of YORK A/C and Heaters are junk
So, I have a question of curiosity. I'm fairly new in the field. I've worked in HVAC for around three years, but only about a year or so of that has been in service. I worked for a small residential company first but have recently been hired by a large commercial company. My biggest struggle is patience. In residential, I felt like I was always being rushed through calls, and unfortunately I had a few call backs as a result. I know you say a lot to take your time, but how long is too long? I'm always worried that my supervisor is going to come down on me for taking too long on a call the way my last company did. He hasn't, but that lingers in my mind all the time. So, how do I find a balance between being thorough and getting it done?
the motor with the white powder is starting off with the hard drugs…
Nice video did you find out what it was ?
man youre actitud is amazing i want to deal with problems the same way as you damn well done sr
Nice video ty great job Service area Kanata??
I've dusted out a kitchen with pigeon feathers. The cooks just wiped the feathers off their prepping counters and kept on serving.
I like your demonstration of a careful problem-solving technique. Valuable for any complex system. Thanks.
On burned smell never garernty 2 costmer all is fine n safe sey fond a problem n was fixed no worrenty of fire safe put on writtig cus ull be liabale
those are some old units! nice find
Jesus!!! 6 in the morning?? Oh wow mad respect for you Chris!! And thanks for the vid!!!
Pardon what is likely a silly question but on the rooftop make up air units, do they just dump down into the kitchen without any other filtration besides what is (or is not?) on the roof?
Thanks for the vids and taking us along.
I've gone from just cleaning condenser coils on bars and kitchen fridges a couple years ago to digging into fryers and steam kettles… now they've given me keys to the roof at this facility and said something's wrong up there….WTH?, I'll have a look.
Hereโs an idea, take your cell and walk around the machines recording their sounds to a WAV file. When you get home analyze the wav file using a FFT, there are audio samples around of various machine faults. If you find a match you found a machine fault. Practice a lot and it will become like second nature.
Excellent diag. Would have loved to see the repair. Thanks for the video. Service area Barrhaven??
I really wish all HVACR techs were as thorough for all their customers. Also, having customers following proper care and procedure would be nice for you i'm sure! Great video!
It's certainly a mystery. From an electricians point of view, I didn't see anything that could pollute an entire building sufficiently as to call the fire department. The equipment looked pretty good for it's age as you point out. I think it's more likely a lamp ballast or compressor or perhaps fan motor inside the building burnt and the fumes collected in the RTU's. Your thorough investigations inspire me.
In your next video please mention the temperature in Celsius
Hi I have a box window air conditioner and it smells like oil when I turn it on could you diagnose the problem ? Are you in Nepean ?
Finished the video, Those things are designed like shit. What a terrible product. that insulation looks like a major fire hazard. I recently worked on an office building built in 1963 with –100%– original hvac equipment, All GE condensers, air handlers and gas units. They where old as hell and dusty but the heat exchanges where perfect and so where the compressors and line sets. They just needed new caps all around. Those things where built amazingly well. Of course the building around them was falling apart, but it was still warm in the winter and cold in the summer. Great video though, good job finding the issue. Are you in Barrhaven ?
1 min in- OOPHHH those things look neglected. Word to the wise watch out for those things. allot of building owners are filling the refrigerant with propane instead of r22 to save a buck. Are you in Kanata ?
Every now and again we are forced to replace heat exchangers which incurs a sizeable cost to our customers for the repair, however, in a unit that is out of warranty and will require additional service calls to keep running, it is not very cost effective for the customer. Most of the time the customer will replace one or two units at a time, over a period of months.