All right. I am live again. Uh, we are at the Parker Portland Booth here at the Ahr Expo 2024 in. Oh nice and warm Chicago Cal California Chicago Illinois Good gosh, everybody that's coming in here right now.

Uh, you guys will see this popping up. Um, we're going to do this a few times throughout the day on my channel. so you guys will see this. uh today.

I have Brad Hankin hankin' hakin' Yes sir. I You've explained that to me several times all the different shows and I probably still stumble with it every time we talk. but it is. Yeah, no, no, you're fine.

It's it's like H can just put an A at the front Okay I like that. That's that's good. So you know we have a lot of changes coming into the industry. right now.

we have a lot of stuff happening. A lot of people are afraid of a lot of things that are happening. Um, you know something though. I've been in the trade for quite a while.

Uh, grew up working with my dad and I remember the transition, uh with refrigerants from 12 to you know the the the drop in refrigerant right and drop in became this word that's bad now And the word drop in isn't bad because it's just the way people understood it. For the longest time. they didn't understand that drop in does not mean that you can mix refrigerates. Drop in just meant it was an easy process to change correct with minimal work from the technician, right? Okay, so we dealt with that in the late 80s, mid 90s, right? we had a lot of drop-ins replacements for 12.

Uh, we had a lot of plans. We knew even in the 80s and 90s that a lot of these new refrigerants that were going to replace 12 and different things were going away too. We knew that 404 wasn't going to last long. We knew that all these refrigerat wasn't going to last long, but a lot of people just didn't pay attention.

and now they kind of panicked a little bit when we have some new changes coming in, right? right? We have some new refrigerants that are coming into the industry right now because obviously R22 is not the greatest thing when it comes to some environmental concerns and different stuff like that, right? Even though we love it as a refrigerant as technicians. So we had a replacement refrigerant come out called 4108 right? right? That's been huge in the industry the last uh, 10 years. I think R22 finally got actually banned from even the th thermostatic expansion about charges back in 2015. Okay, so yeah, so For18 has been the front runner for for eight years plus now.

Uh, and even before that kind of thing. So it's it's. been the front runner uh, for a long time now. but uh now everything's changing with the uh, the GW P limits now.

Uh, moving away 410A is is going to be phased out. Uh, one of the constituents in there R125 is the bad one Uh, for the environment. So uh, so yeah, uh, lot of lot of moving and shaking going on in the uh in the refrigeration refrigerant? Uh, outlook here in the in the near future. So what are the main Um components of 410A As far as refrigerants go, Is there there's two main components, right? right? It's it's it's R125 5, which is has the highest higher global warming potential and then uh, R R32 Yeah, we're playing with uh microphone settings here, so we're getting a little feedback.

but it's okay. So so R410a has two main components: 125 and R32 R32 Yes, which which R32 is becoming a, uh, somewhat of a system refrigerant. but like we were talking about earlier, people are starting to get a little bit nervous about R32 Well, that's the funny thing is that people are afraid of the low flammability potential of R32 right? Mildly flammable? Um, but the thing is is that a good majority of the people out there that have done air conditioning work have been working with R32 just mixed with another refrigerant right? right? right? for the longest time now. So everybody that's been working on refrigerants that have four or systems that have 410A you've been working with R32 which is not the only A2l that's coming out, but that is one of them.

but I Just use that one because that's the easiest example to tell people that you've been working with. Yep, Yep. R32 for a very long time now, right? I don't know if you can confirm this, but I Heard that originally R32 was something that they wanted to use, but they were having issues with the mild flammability so they came up with the 125 which made the 410 is is there any truth to that? That's you know what? Uh, that's a really good question I am not 100% for sure on that. Uh, but I can see how that would be something that would have ease the minds of uh folks.

you know in about 10 12 years ago when that was first coming out. Yeah, so it's interesting. But here's the thing. and I can't stress this enough.

working in refrigeration coming up right in the very beginning. I was taught pressures right? Okay, we're working on R22 your pressures are going to be this and this. Now that wasn't correct, but it was. It worked for us, right? But I I quickly learned that that wasn't the right way to do things.

then I got more involved in refrigeration and I learned that I call it we have several different flavors. a refrigerant right? Because they're they just keep coming. Oh yeah, and paying attention to pressures really is counterintuitive. Forget about the pressures.

let's pay attention to the temperatures, because as a refrigeration technician, if we start to understand saturation temperatures and temperatures you know in the condenser and different things, we don't have to worry about pressures as much when it comes to the different refrigerants because we just know that I need my condenser to be at this saturated temperature when it's operating right right, right and I feel like if as a technician I was taught to follow temperatures versus pressures, it would have made the conversion to the original dropin refrigerants in the 90s a lot easier because I was like I don't know how to work on this refrigerant I don't know what the pressure should be, but the pressures really were irrelevant when I could have just paid attention to the temperatures. Yeah, yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense for sure. it was definitely a struggle, but I don't want to make people think that there is not you know concerns when it comes to A2l refrigerants. I do have to remember.

For me, it doesn't seem like a big deal dealing with Atls. It really doesn't because I deal with A3 refrigerants all the time which is highly flammable r290 buttin. but I only deal with R290 but still I deal with R290 quite often so I'm comfortable working with an A2l. So sometimes I kind of got into a trend where I was like guys, don't even worry about the A2l it's no big deal.

but then I have to remember. Okay, yeah, people do need to be a little bit more careful, right? The other interesting thing when it comes to the Atls, even The A3s when I started learning about R290 is that if you go back to original training materials from the 60s and 70s okay with refrigerants, you're going to find out that a lot of the best practices are the same best practices that we are preaching with A2l and A3s right now. there you go. Yeah, everybody was, uh, you know, super careful.

you know back uh, back when Refrigeration really started blowing up Whatever everybody's like, hey, you really gota be mindful of this, mindful of that and I think we got into a comfort zone. Yes, with these, you know, let's say safer refrigerants or or these non A2l non A3 uh, refrigerants over the and then I I Won't say we got sloppy with our work, but we got a little more. Hey, we don't have to be as careful or got into that mindset. but now with the A2l coming out, you know we're reemphasizing the safety feature, which I think is always a good practice.

Uh, you know first and foremost, always be safe while you're doing what you're doing. uh, whatever. but uh, that's that's the most important part. And I think the the A2l and the A3s is just a good friendly reminder to hey, you gotta be mindful what you're doing, what you're working with I I Love the comment that I'll get where someone will say Well, back in my day, we didn't have to worry about none of that vacuum nonsense.

we didn't have to about any of that stuff. I have a book that was just republished uh by a couple gentlemen Brian or and Jim Bergman republished a book and it's about evacuation and I believe it's from the 50s. Wow and it talks about evacuation like we talk about it. Now when it comes to dehydrating systems, pulling down to Micron levels, making sure that everything holds a Decay test and it's like so then you get the people that are like, we didn't have to worry about that when I was coming up.

well actually you did. It's just that we were dealing with very for giving oils very forgiving refrigerants right? And we didn't have high sear equipment that was trying to maximize every bitt efficiency with everything. So when we had six sear systems on air conditioning okay, you know you kind of made it work. it wasn't right, but it did right right? There's no getting around the technology changes and I want to ask you guys as a manufacturer, do you guys generally as a manufacturing company just want to change everything that you have? Do you want to change your product L every single day? Absolutely not.

No, uh no there's you know the the product stratification and the amount of bread that we have across our products is already immense. Yes and uh As these new refrigerants come out, the the last thing we want to do is keep broadening that. Spectrum Uh, you know from a from a cost position standpoint from a skew standpoint you know at the wholesalers you know we're talking Yeah, but still on the same level. you know all the and the point I'm trying to make is that it's not just the manufacturers that are making these changes right? There's other people that are pushing you guys to make changes.

but at the same time we all have to agree that some of these changes are for the better. They are helping the environment, they are helping things. But it's not just the manufacturers that are doing this. So don't blame the manufacturers because you have a new refrigerant, because you have a new inverter, you have a new Vfd in your system.

There's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that's pushing them to those levels. When it comes to spoiling company, you guys have. Um, you guys have a product line that you guys have had for a very long time but had to build upon that product line. Okay, are you guys I Know that you are.

but I'm just asking you in general: Are you still seeing a lot of people struggling with like your Eevs and understanding how they work? understanding? um how to size them? Do you guys still run into that a lot? Uh, we do. We do as the as the system refrigerants change. Um, it seems like uh, a lot of the uh, other other component manufacturers are like, well you know this. this model worked before there.

There's just like like us, they don't want to stratify and make make broader product lines. but as uh, as different NRE come out with these different refrigerants. It does take some changes, some sizing on some components, a little bit differences. So yes, we do see that.

um I Know you probably work with our virtual Engineer software program. Uh, we've got a lot of the new refrigerants up to date uh in there so the sizing can be done all online. so we're we're prepared for that for this next wave of refrigerants coming through. Uh, but yeah.

but it is a good exercise to go back and revisit those sizing tools. Uh, go back and redo those things as you're changing to new refrigerants. Don't just go by with what it's always kind of worked. kind of.

you know, as uh, one of my things that has become a pet peeve once I Completely understood in a not completely but once I understood it better is you know how important head pressure is to a system and how important it is to the operation of the expansion valve. Especially when we're talking about a thermostatically controlled expansion. Bel We have another very important thing in our industry right now and that's the need for more efficiency. We have a massive need for more efficiency.

Again, there's a lot of factors that go into that, the energy grid, and a lot of different things. But we need to consume less energy and we need to do it. but we still want to stay comfortable. We live in a society that we want to be comfortable.

We have comfort cooling, right? I Mean there's places in the world that don't deal with Comfort cooling. They think we're silly over here. Okay, I mean so we we. We get to be comfortable, but we have to make sure we do it in an efficient manner.

Um, one thing that I've always appreciated and I think not enough people know is that you guys have a massive library of tech documents. Your Service Uh. service. What do you call them? Your service bulletins? Uh yeah.

Field bulletins. Service bulletins? Yes, yes. Field bulletins. You guys.

There's so much information out there. Yeah, and when you're confused, all you need to do is just open up one of the manuals and read it. It's available at your fingertips. You can pull it up on your smartphone sp.com Uh, you know, just go down.

Halfway down the Page hit the literature button. Everything you can, uh, look for, you know TVs Distributors E PS Prbs. It's a wealth of knowledge there. It's all out there at your fingertips.

We we even have spoiling uh on on the YouTube channels. A lot of lot of good videos out there. Anything from five minutes long to an hour long. You can get a wealth of knowledge.

Like you said, everybody's got a smartphone in their pocket. It's all right there. Help yourself, the content is there. So we're gonna wrap this up.

but I do want to bring up a couple key points. Number one: This is one of my pet peeves. It's the funniest thing when it comes to the A2l refrigerants. Okay, there is no propane and an A2l refrigerant.

It does not exist. There's a good majority out there that thinks that Atls are full of propane. There's no propane. The other thing I Want to stress to everybody at this point in time and for the foreseeable future? you are not using Atls in retrofit applications.

You are not converting to an A2l. I Shouldn't say retrofit. You're not converting to an A2l. You're only using A2l refrigerants in new system startups that are designed for the A2l refrigerants.

I Know that there's a lot of information out there saying that Atls have to have you know, refrigerant leak monitors and that that drives fear in people thinking that their house is going to blow up. Okay, but you also are operating in a lot of homes. A gas furnace. You are operating a gas stove.

You are driving on a car that is full of one of the highest volatile liquids in the world and you're sitting on it as you're driving down the road. That's that's a great point. You know, Uh, people. uh.

talk about uh. the amount of uh A2l which is low flammability gas in an air conditioning system and the volume there whereas you go to their their gas stove that they love cooking with gas with purely an unending Supply Yeah, and if that thing gets going, there's no stopping it. Whereas the minimal amount that you have in your house uh, it's it's. there's fear.

Uh, on the on the homeowner side, but I think it's it's it's unwarranted for sure for that for that reason I Want everybody out there to go search some YouTube videos. Don't try to do experiments by yourself. Go search some YouTube video videos about the flammability of H refrigerants. The Esco Institute has some really good information I got no affiliation with them, but Jason Obj has done some great stuff where he shows you and even Clift and Beck has done some stuff where they show you the actual flammability and they explain and make you understand it.

Yes, right? And Atls don't light up like R290. Okay, when they do, it's a very small flame and it doesn't sustain it. doesn't continue, it's just A and then it goes away. You know it's it's very quick.

Like like I said, a gas stove. You know, cooking your meal at night has far more flame coming out of it than anything that you would see with your household. H System Yeah, so all right. Brad Thank you very much.

We're going to go ahead and close this out. We will definitely be back shortly and we will talk a little bit more so. thanks so much! Thanks for your time Chris Appreciate it. Yep.