Ever had an HVAC system low on refrigerant which some folks call freon? In this video, Joshua Griffin shares why you can't just easily connect gauges to a ductless mini-split system as you would connect to a typical air conditioner or heat pump. This goes for inverter HVAC systems as well. Connecting gauges to a system of these types that have to ability to ramp up and down does not allow you to do full-capacity superheat and subcool measurements. Therefore, you won't be able to tell if the system is properly charged without properly weighing the refrigerant in.
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Chapters
0:00 Intro: Can you check refrigerant on minisplit?
0:42 Exceptions to rule
1:00 How to check properly
1:54 You don't want gauges connected
2:52 Error notifications
3:11 Outro
#minisplit #ductless #refrigerants
For more information on Griffin Air, visit https://www.griffinair.net/
For more information on New HVAC Guide, visit https://www.newhvacguide.com/overview
*Need Financing for your HVAC? Visit https://www.newhvacguide.com/financing
*Own a Service Biz and want to grow? Visit https://www.newhvacguide.com/mastermindgroup
*Our favorite products?
Favorite Thermostat click here: https://amzn.to/3wt3Vwh
Favorite Air Cleaner here: https://amzn.to/3Nfxw27
Favorite Air Filter here: https://amzn.to/3vpVbWl
Air Tester/Monitor here: https://amzn.to/3oJ3LvD
Dehumidifier here: https://amzn.to/3Q4woPp
Humidifier here: https://amzn.to/3ilZ9vq
Smart Vent here: https://amzn.to/3JDfGDX
HVAC Soft Start: https://amzn.to/3kMXlwT
HVAC Guide for Homeowners is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Amazon offers a small commission on products sold through their affiliate links. Each of your purchases via our Amazon affiliation links supports our cause at no additional cost to you.
Griffin Air and Joshua Griffin have partnered with Daikin on multiple projects. FTC requires disclosure of these relationships due to the compensation received.
Chapters
0:00 Intro: Can you check refrigerant on minisplit?
0:42 Exceptions to rule
1:00 How to check properly
1:54 You don't want gauges connected
2:52 Error notifications
3:11 Outro
#minisplit #ductless #refrigerants
Hey guys, I Want to do a video on a particular topic after going to a house the other day helping a homeowner who had some Mini Splits installed and they were having some issues and the topic came up that hey, Josh while you're here, while you're working on the unit that is having a refrigerant issue, can you go and just check the refrigerant on this other mini split and my answer had to be no, I can't And you might say, well, Josh What do you mean No, why couldn't you just check the refrigerant, throw your gauges on there, Check that refrigerant. The problem is, if you are a homeowner that has some sort of ductless mini split, abducted mini split, or any other type of inverter system out there, they cannot be properly checked like you would a conventional system. Now there are exceptions to that rule, one being systems that you can put it in charging mode or whatever verbiage they use, but make that system ramp up to full capacity and then you can check the refrigerant properly. However, a lot of these ductless mini split type systems, you can't do that that, and in fact, the only way to really know that the refrigerant is added to that system correctly is to remove it all and to weigh it back in properly.
Now it's more to it than that. If you were to have, say, a refrigerant leak, you would have to reclaim that refrigerant. You would have to find the leak and do everything that it takes to do that properly. And then after repairing the leak, pressure test again, pull a good vacuum and then weigh that refrigerant back in.
So again, it's not just. oh, throw your gauges on there in five minutes, know if that system is charged correctly. Now you could argue. Josh Couldn't you have at least connected your gauge and made sure it's not on empty? Yeah, you could probably do that, but there is no way because of the way these systems are designed to know if it's properly charged unless you weigh that refrigerant in there, so it's a more tedious step.
It's more to it than just that five minute checkup. and I would also argue if you have a heating and air company that says otherwise, you don't want them connecting gauges if that system is operating correctly and everything's doing like it should, you don't want somebody that's every now and then connecting gauges and they're doing their tune-ups again. so they're connecting gauges again. Those systems don't hold a lot of refrigerant anyway.
So after two years of people doing preventative maintenance and connecting those gauges and things like that every time you connect your gauges, depending on how long your hoses are or something like that, you could be removing a little bit of refrigerant every single time. And eventually after a little while, you find out that you're actually a few ounces low if not more, And that creates more problems. So ultimately getting back to the matter at hand if you have again, some sort of mini split, some sort of ductless system, or again ducted mini split, but just some sort of system that is not a just conventional system where you connect your gauges and check the refrigerant levels. You do not want that to happen. I wouldn't even connect the gauges. And the last thing I'll say as time is going on, we now already have systems, but you're gonna see more systems in the future. Having the capability of telling you what the pressures are telling you? hey, this is the amount of refrigerant that's in here. These are the pressures I'm reading and whether or not there's a problem.
So anyway, I Hope that helps. Comment down below. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks for watching.
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Pre EPA Hvac rules 1980s Ancient mini spilt history: the units i saw in Singapore Toyko and Thailand had R22. They had both high and low pressure taps on the outside unit. The expansion valve was Inside in the Inside unit. This scheme sometimes added noise of the metering valve.
Todays mini spilts I own are R410a. The metering valve is in the outside units. There is NO high pressure tap to measure the high side pressure. Both lines are on the low side on most all modern mini spilts. That is why both lines are insulated.
When a modern mini spilt is low on charge in Cleveland the smaller line usually frosts over. So the poor homeowner is trying to cool all of Cleveland than the inside of his John and Janes house.
The problem a HVAC repair guy has is the lay public thinks there are 2 pressure ports to check what is happening on a mini split.
Also the HVAC repair person has no clue if the lost 10 oz of R410a happened over 7 years or 7 days.
Most of the time the leak is in the inside unit or the flare fittings.
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I have found a kinked refrigerant line between my outdoor unit into the wall. My question is do you remove the refrigerant, cut out that piece and weld in a new section? Or is it a much bigger problem
I'm glad I'm nearing the end of my HVAC career instead of just starting out in the field. Life was much simpler before all the modern technology and when everything was 22, 12, or 502.
I figured as much, Josh. These things have a mind of their own, so to speak, the way they cycle through so many states. It's neat because it works well but it's also complex and likely to be a maintenance nightmare. Not surprising they have a full-go mode for charging. I'd imagine there's a whole hidden troubleshooting menu with a set of functions to manually operate all the components.
I don't know how these little guys meter refrigerant through the evap but computer controlled big chillers have an electrically controlled motor valve the computer commands based on temps and pressures continuously sampled. I figured when I open my system again I'd attach ports to install pressure sensors then I could watch it work whenever curiosity hit. I wouldn't be shocked if the mini splits were continuously monitoring temps and pressures.
Check refrigerant with super heat or sub cooling and saturation temp. All other technique are good but take too long Are you in Ottawa ?
Made sense to me. A quick guess of gas and go can get someone up until repair or replacement. I think, if nothing is freezing, temp splits good, leave it alone. Too often, things are dirty or operator error.
I don't quite understand – why would say a 3 ton mini split have so much less refrigerant than a 3 ton central heat pump?
But having recently (like 2 wks ago) upgraded heat pumps, I do like the technology. For once, without redoing ducts or other invasive modifications, my two levels are within 1 degree F (sometimes within 0.2 degrees!) of each other thanks to inverter technology. Used to be a ~3 degree difference.
Disagree with you to a certain extent. You are completely right about "properly" charging a system by weight. I have rarely done this unless the system is giving me supreme attitude in a service scenario . Some manufactures will give a range of what your pressure's should be or if you call them they will give you some hints along with an amp check on the compressor. If I have a whack of calls its getting a top up and a leak check on to the next one. Most home owners want their systems to cool asap not really concerned with a system properly charged. Service area Kanata??
Can anyone tell me if the Pioneer mini splits have this self-diagnosis feature?
Since there is no charging mode on mini splits, can you just crank down the temp on the thermostat to get it going 100 percent capacity to charge?Or does it not work that way?
Hmmm, so basically, the new systems are more expensive, filled with complicated electronics which love to break, ((I've been an electronics guy all my life), because they are electronic and that's just what ALL Electronics do over time), and now it's even more difficult for HVAC Tech's to test, troubleshoot and repair which ultimately ends up costing the customer more money in the long run for all future maintenance. What a great deal for the consumers of these products!! And all this to save a few bucks per month in Electric Bills, ALL of which will likely be eaten up by future repair and equipment replacement bills to the customer. Oh yeah, and all that refrigerant you have to suck out and send to the recycler? Do they pay the HVAC guys for each bottle of refrigerant that is turned in to be recycled? And once again the customer is on the hook for all new refrigerant every time the system gets a little low on gas. All of this takes a lot of time which translates to a lot more hours billed to the owners to do what should have been able to be done in a short time at very little expense. Great move HVAC World!!!! Oh, and the CO2 issue that the world is trying to "FIX"… Yeah, it was revealed recently that our atmosphere contains approximately 0.04% (That's four one hundredths of one percent) CO2 gas, and their goal is to reduce it by 50% bringing it down to 0.02% (or two hundredths of one percent!!!) And they want everyone to believe this will make a huge difference…, Sorry, I'm calling B.S on this one. I'm no chemist, but I DON'T THINK SO!!!! I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!