Heat pumps have gotten better over the years and are playing a bigger role in the future of the HVAC industry. In this video, Joshua talks about how many heat pumps are misdiagnosed in the Wintertime and a few scenarios where this can be an issue for homeowners. Heat pump issues are one thing but they really don't matter when temperatures fall below freezing since the backup heat should there to keep the home and family warm.
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Hey guys, we are coming off a crazy cold snap here in Virginia and I think the entire country has been super cold in comparison. Uh, you know the lowest temperatures we typically see are you know 10? 20? You know 10 is crazy, you know for us. Um and usually if it does get down that low then it's in the middle of the night and it's like one night of the year. where I live? Um so where I live usually winter time you're you know, used to seeing 20 or 30 degree temperatures at the most.
and so because of that heat pumps are you know Supreme Here you know that they're everywhere. A lot of folks have heat pumps. I Know there are parts of the country where heat pumps are less ideal, but because of the way the industry is going I Think you're going to see more and more heat pump systems being sold in markets that they never have before. That being said, being in a market where we see predominantly Heat pump systems, one thing I'm seeing is heat pump systems be misdiagnosed at least from the get-go And one thing I think you as a homeowner should know when you are telling your heating and air contractor or calling in a service call to say hey, my heat pump system's not working I have no heat.
This might be something that you know might help you and get to the bottom of it a little quicker anyway. And so one thing I'm seeing is my own employees, my own guys. This is something that I've had to go over with them a few times and that is if you have a customer that has a heat pump system with some sort of backup. whether it's electric gas or some other type of backup system, we usually see electric or gas you know, gas furnace or straight electric heat strips.
If you have a customer call and they say look, you know it's it's cold in here My house has slowly but surely gotten colder and colder. My response to that to my guys and to anyone that it would be repairing that is at that point, especially if it's gotten below 20 degrees outside. Uh, you know we've seen days this week here in my area that have gotten below 10 degrees. So very cold for here and very cold for a heat pump system.
And so what I tell my guys is it does not matter what that heat pump system, what the heat pump it itself is doing right now I don't care if it's on fire, put the fire out and we'll come back when it warms up a little bit and and diagnose that heat pump a little better. But if they are without heat, the problem is not the heat pump. the problem is whatever the backup heat is And so in contrast if I had a customer who said hey I have heat, you know it warms up in my house but I'm getting a you know I'm getting a this constant swing in temperature I'm getting where you know to get really warm in my house and then it'll get really cold in my house and I'm it's constantly up and down, constantly up and down. Then I know there's not a problem with the backup heat source and the problem is most likely primarily the heat pump unit outside.
and the reason is is you know we're having the heat, you know the heat pump is struggling, something's wrong with it possibly and it's not providing heat and then so the temperature starts to drop and then the backup heat Source kicks on and takes over and makes that you know that home warm again so then I know with that you know swing and and that jump up and down. then I know the problem is the heat pump unit. but if you have no heat like if you have or or it keeps slowing down right you know if you if you have it set at 72 degrees and it gets down to 65 and then it's 60 and then it gets done in the 50s you know I tell my guys stop diagnosing the heat pump. At that point the problem is not the heat pump. the problem is whatever is the backup. whatever should be kicking in and helping that heat pump out when it's too cold outside for that heat pump to do its thing. I Don't know if that helps anybody I Just know that that's something that we have run into that you know we have customers. They'll call and say I have no heat I'm telling my guys Heat Pump.
You know you can if there's something wrong with it. Fine, but that's not your main issue here. Your main issue is not the heat pump outdoor condensing unit. Your problem is has to do with those heat strips or the furnace.
Something's wrong there and just repairing the heat pump. Just getting the refrigerant right on a heat pump or whatever. You haven't fixed their problem right? So I hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
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Has anyone lost compressors in heat pumps from customers starting their units as soon as power was restored? Usually they want 24 hours for the crankcase heaters to equalize migration.
My aux heat kicked in and now that the cold is over and its 70 degrees outside my aux comes on when the unit comes on. What should I be troubleshooting. Heat pump? Service area Barrhaven??
We had a lot of blackouts here, some lasting three days. Customers with gas usually have small generators that can operate the pumps and fans but the heat pump only people, they lost everything, water pipes, toilets even the traps under the sinks. What a mess! This will keep the plumbers busy for a while and I am sure as people start to realize how fragile our grid is, generator sales will be up.
Do you size your electric backup for design day as a stand alone or do you size it as an auxiliary with the heatpump operating?
In my opinion the problem comes with all of the field wiring and special order parts that are needed with most heat pumps. Second would be customer training of how their heat pumps actually work as per design standards.
I would not do what you suggested. If you are not testing you are guessing. Testing is the only way to rule something out.
Early this week(your same week) I had a house that would not keep up temp split for heating was 20 degrees house was 56. The heat strips were on found that it was the capacitor for the compressor had failed and after fixing that the temperature split was 33 degrees. Are you in Nepean ?
You would be surprised at what customers think of how a heat pump operates. It's crazy!
The most common error I came across a lot was not having the defrost terminal connected to the heat strips on the inside AHU (for standard systems, sometimes AUX HEAT wasn't configured right in the thermostat either). Customers were told by other people (non HVAC people) that yeah, a heat pump blows out cold air sometimes. I would go in and configure it and I would say, "you won't have this issue this winter". When I would come back and do their springtime maintenance they would say it was a world of difference and they were comfortable the whole time.
Just no…..bad technicians giving heat pumps a bad name. I have a gas furnace and while I do love it, we might be moving soon and when I get to that house I'm going to make sure its a heat pump and it works right. They don't dry the air out as bad as a gas furnace.
Again, in areas with expensive electric rates, and using a heat pump with electric backup heat is not carrying much value to the customer. It may satisfy the EPA or other ignorant entity but in the real world with individual pocket books, high power rates and all electric in cold weather like this is totally not reasonable in comparason to natural gas or propane depending on their rates just the same. It's truly a joke when the DOE or EPA pushes for efficiency with cars trucks for MPG…the better the MPG the higher fuel prices go. Imagine if the enitre country was all electric, only one utility to deal with and one huge monopoly who could overnight raise electric rates to twice what it was a month ago ! No options are left for those who cannot pay huge heating or cooling bills…All would be just fine if the electric rates were reasonable or 8 cents a kWh or less. CA rates are 38 cents per kWh and 12 cents of that is the actual cost of generated power, the rest of it goes to the utility for their transmission and overhead costs plus their stock holders or investors. Funny how they have pimped out power rates over the years. The same utility charged 4 cents per kWh a few decades back and there was no such thing as generation and transmission costs. There was only the charge per kWh used. We had bills that were $85 a month that are now $400 to $650 a month for the same season and heat/cooling needs and after all of the energy upgrades in windows, insulation, weatherstriping, modern gas and electric appliances, more efficient HVAC etc. yet the bills continue too increase for less usage which tells us the rates go up faster than efficient upgrades can keep up with. In fact, all the efficient upgrades tend to be worthless when factoring in the rate increases. People who spend $40,000 in energy efficiency over a 20 year period should be able to see lower bills…not the same or higher ! The same occured with vehicles…$40,000 vehicle today vs. $8,000 older vehicle and the gasoline/diesel bills are not lower. Service area Ottawa??
Traditional heat pumps (Like Lennox ML14XP1) should not be running when its 10 degrees outside it is worthless. Ductless or inverter driven heat pumps can operate down in those ranges.
What if there is no back up unit ? Do you recommend to always have a back up ? I have 3 quotes right now.
1 is for the Mitsubishi hyper heat and the want to remove my furnace, claim I won’t need it anymore. The other 2 quotes our for the same exact Bosch unit 1 company says it works in negative -4 degrees the other company says my back up will come on at around 20 degrees. Any helpful info???
Great stuff Josh! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
My 3 ton Daikin Fit was able to maintain 71 when it's 10 outside. At 5 degrees the heat load is too great and the backup furnace fires up on low heat. Amazing technology.
I'm thinking my heat pump (Heil Max Performance 10) on a house built in '91 has heat strips, but I need to ask HVAC guy next time he comes out. It has run constantly through this cold spell without a hiccup. Fingers crossed it lasts a few more years.
This just happened to me. I have a mitsubishi hyper heat condenser with two indoor air handlers.
We had -10 degree weather and the unit was producing enough heat to run only one of the air handlers. My concern is that the mitsu units should be 70% efficient at -15. So I'm wondering if I am low on refrigerant? (No error codes).
Secondly, each air handler has an 8kw electric back up heater and neither turned on.
The other weird thing I noticed is that the plastic base that the condenser sits on is completely covered in ice, not sure if that means anything?
Any indication or information on heating pumps coming out in the future that work below freezing ? I have gear of heat pump mini splits in select brands work in 10 degrees, I’m not so sure but just what I’ve heard. Just curious because I usually tell customers heat pumps are less effective at freezing or below and to properly diagnose an issue most cases we will have to come back when it’s warmer, am I way off on that?
Exactly Right!!!