That's that's what I got. That's what I got because we don't have, we're at, we're in Renning we're in Brian space for free right now. we're living rent Brian's office right now. Yeah we are.

He's been in my brain for years. So we're the great buying guys right? and uh, we're at the Symposium and we're uh, streaming over here from Brian's Hub It's pretty cool. This has been a journey to get to here. Who are you again? Mr Chris Hughes Mr Cen Franco right there hey hey hey Mr Eric Kaiser what's up everybody? so let's have some fun.

Let's like it's the last day of the Symposium Yeah man, yeah we are coming to you live from Symposium and this this is. We just realized this as we sat down here like this is the first time that all three of us have sat in the same physical room. It's freaking and been live together. Crazy because I See you guys on the screen and that's it.

But I Known you guys for years? Yeah this is. this is something new family right here. It's cool having a good time. Michael What do you think? you're uh, mostly impressed of by the conference this year? Like what? what? What's your big takeaway? We've be coming here from year one right? So like everything was the first year was, everything was so so scary right.

We got to meet all the big wigs and Brian you know Fanning out trying to be trying to get the nerves but now it's It's kind of flipped people coming up to us saying hey got take a selfie with you I was like me. seriously. The guy from The Great mine I was like I don't know. this is weird man.

script is flipped and uh Show's catching on I would say this: uh, putting the time in that we've put in to come here every year. Like you said, learn from the greats. Yeah, do you feel like it's hard to look back at yourself five years ago and realize that you have transformed immensely from the mechanic you were five years before to now is? has it been one heck of a transition? It's been an amazing adventure man, because like all these guys care about each other and they pour into you and they're not doing it for other means. You know they're They're really wanting to help people out, which is really it's rare, you know? Yeah, so it's It's really to see myself progress from just the old shuck in the truck to now.

You know it's it's really it's you, know it. It fills you, You about to cry. Yeah, that's why I got glasses on I'm just so thankful for all you guys man, be the first person who cried in Brian's Booth That's it. If if you progressed from old Chuck in a truck, does that mean you're new Chuck in a truck now I'm a new Chuck new Chuck new Chuck new Chuck new Chuck in a truck? What about you? Eric What's your what's your big hit This year you say you're like man.

that was something to see man just I don't know there's like no one thing I think that I can put my finger on I was super busy this year. um for some reason that I still can't fathom I Scheduled myself for like four sessions this year. dude he works it I was just going going going like I had two two SS with co-presenters and one on my own and then I moderated a panel and it's draining and I look I look at that like what I've been doing at this show and then I look at Brian and all the people that are working this show and putting everything together and how much and how much they put into it to make all this happen for us and really everybody here and I just I'm gonna sound like a broken record because I say this almost every time I Talk About This show. Everybody here wants to be here but everybody here wants to.

Some people want to be here to learn I think everybody wants to learn but a lot come here to share. Yeah you know they don't brand doesn't pay people to come here to share. They everybody just comes here because they want to because they want to make the industry better. They have a passion for the Hbac industry.

Um, we're we're ever expanding into that um building performance side of things. the the home performance people starting to look outside those boxes. Um, you know we had a great panel this morning talking about home performance but really moving outside of those boxes of equipment. But even into the duct work.

and Beyond the duct work the traditional duct work into the house. and I'm seeing a lot more people really starting to become interested in that aspect of comfort. Yeah, and that to me is is just so encouraging because it's something we've been missing in the trade for a long time and now we are. We're really starting to see more traction un likee that.

There's a few people out there that have experimented with it and and it's still taking a lot of experimenting about how different companies are blending that into their existing HVAC business right? Figuring that out, monetizing it, monetizing it. Because let's face it, we're in business. We got to figure out how to make money with it with it, right? Yeah, that's been I think Quite a topic for the last probably five years is you know home performance is super interesting. but if I get wrapped up and turn everything into a science project, then I'm not profitable, right? And if you're not profitable, the science projects are going to come to a stop real fast exctly and you won't do it anymore.

So you quickly have to say you know I have to make this profitable and I have to keep this professional and I think that's something that this year I felt a lot of presence and a lot of discussion around has been like okay, let's do home performance and let's do it good. Let's keep it professional and let's make profit right? y Let's do it right. but let's don't go into these houses and turn everything into science projects. and I think we're getting really close to starting to see that happen a lot more in the HVAC industry especially the residential HVAC industry.

and I think this crowd is the crowd that's going to pull that off. Gotta make money come back next year. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you gota gotta a lot your money to go to the Symposium inside every home performance job.

Yeah Y and a little bit of money to you know, save for yourself too. maybe buy a new truck or or new tools or something like that. Yeah, it's time to get out of the Astro van. Well my all my money goes to my kids.

You know it's like a nothing wrong with that. it goes to Rubik's Cubes if I could be honest really oh my God like how many Rubik's Cubes do you have in your house? This is going to be embarrassing to say but I guarantee you we probably have 27 Rubik's Cubes oh my God 27 Rubik's Cubes 20 of those are the 3X3 because like that's the most common and my oldest son is in competition with it. so he's like sub 22nd cuber. Wow, right? Boom boom boom Yeah, it's pretty fun to watch.

He's all into it. Did you know there's actually like oil that you oil the cube with to make it like spin? Oh my God yeah that's how far we're down that rabbit hole. Wow. But anyway, rub it's hobby man.

there are Rubik's Cube Racers out there like hot. there are Rubik's Cube hot roders right? they're smoking up the cubes. dude. I got to oil this one.

Give me a little nyog on this one please. So my my takeaway is uh what? I thought was just absolutely fabulous and I know he hasn't in him to do it but when he does it, it just amazes me that he can draw like he is Ty Brandman yeah I mean I I don't know if this is gonna be shown anywhere. some people caught it on their feed but he basically went out and per was like a street performer. Oh geez that that was like the man on the street.

It was literally like I just got a fair ticket for free you know. and I got to go see this man perform Fair tricks like it's the circus see him perform I believe the both of you were involved in this performance. If I recall correctly, so can I describe this from the outside? Sure, Yeah, right. So Ty Brandman is out here teaching people how things work right and I look over and I'll I'm standing over at the True Tech Booth talking to somebody and I look over and Chris is sitting in a rolling desk chair in the middle of the parking lot and Michael and two other guys are pushing him across the parking lot as fast as they can with a scale Behind the Chair to see how much force they're putting on the chair and Ty is doing all of this to to describe how electricity flows through wires.

Yeah, and this is the most. Just ridiculously awesome. Fantastic demonstration. So I I sacrificed I sacrificed my my fairly new running shoes.

Y'all know I'm into running. Yeah, so these are my Brooks Runners and and Ty's like I'm so into it. he's like create resistance and I'm like I'll drag my feet so I started dragging my feet and I looked at my shoe this morning and I tore it all up and I'm like oh man, I'm like I just ruined my good Brooks running shoes. You took one, you took one for the team.

This is the crazy thing though. like I'm pushing him with a refrigerant scale, Chris is on on the seat and I'm pushing him. he goes, you're volts. I go okay and I'm going and I'm like so I'm vaults I'm pushing against what you resistance right? Yeah, so AKA a motor winding right? Yeah, uh well.

just wire wire right right and then um then then he goes all right now Chris goes out of the way and he goes go like as if he was there and I'm like holy smokes he just taught me something like because I never really grasped I you know you were pushing like a line like an ill linebacker man like you were trying to get a job for the Tigers he kept pushing I was like it was awesome to watch these guys running back and forth par across the parking. and I think they pulled half the people from the other presentations that were going on. and like all of a sudden there's this impromptu presentation in the middle of the parking lot. No, everybody's like who are these jamokes and you know running around there's video cameras out.

it was hilariously ruin my shoes and um yeah. so then like he's talking about how Motors you know how many poles are in a motor, how it makes the motor spin. so Chris is sitting in the same chair and they got what like eight people around him and you know they're all. They have to each have a hand on the chair all the time so he's spinning him around in circles and then they take two people away.

So Chris spins a little bit faster in the chair and he was try make me lose my lunch dud I lose your lunch man. he was in there all the way down to two poles and by that time Chris is sprinted, spinning pretty fast and like his face is turning green and I felt feet of the chair get lifted and I'm like this is gonna end badly. You know it crazy. more more.

um everybody was a was a pole in the motor right? so the more hands the slower we had to pass off every two. Every two people are across from each other right there. a pole in a motor or what single pole? Yes, just because you got 20 years on the trade doesn't mean you know you know everything. Yeah, No.

I Honestly some of my favorite content is that kind of content. It's um, we do a lot of like in what we talk about a lot I feel like every week we try to brainstorm the most deepest, intellectual, difficult thing to talk about most of the time and you know we did start that Series where we were talking about, uh, homeowner or consumer facing content. which I think we should do more of because we do that as I'm here and I see some of the basics come back and be taught Yeah I look back and I'm like that's some of my f My most favorite stuff to watch is like that was the most fun learning I've ever had in my life. Yeah! Ty Brenman I mean he makes learning so much fun and just insanely crazy like he he had this whole suitcase full of stuff that he's just pulling out there.

Dude, he needs a he needs a coat. you know what I mean like like you have Bill NY the Science Guy and a coat right? We need. uh we need tie with a tie or something. you know, like a crazy tie or something he YouTube guys they call the slow motion guys and they got white lab coats and one guy.

he's usually in in front of the explosions for like a slow motion C camera and it's like one sleeve missing. It's like paint everywhere. That's what Tai means all I can think in my mind when you say that is the movie Con: A you know what I'm saying, is this your doll? So let's talk about something else that happened here at the show. Yeah there's a young man out here that came to visit this show.

he's 12 years old? yeah I yeah and my boss Bill was talking to him and this this young man was just he's picking stuff up asking Bill like he's asking questions about things that Bill had no idea how to answer because he didn't know the piece of equipment and this kid's figuring it out faster than Bill can figure it out. It's amazing. Um he lives really close to Brian's shop here and um I don't want to mention his name on the air because I hav't I don't have permission to do that and but I want to say that it was kind of a he he's watch Chris Stevens stuff yeah Hvacr videos he got to meet Chris Stevens in person down here he got to meet Craig miao I saw him getting pictures with Eugene out there. uh Eugene Silverstein's here and with Tai and so many other people he's been sitting in classes like he sat in one of my classes.

um dude story blew my mind. he is just so interested in HVAC and it was. You know this event just happened to be down the road and he happened to get an in-person ticket to come over here. um I think the person he was originally supposed to come with got sick and his mom ended up coming over here.

um and she has been talking to everybody and it's been such a great time to watch this young man spend time at this event and it really it kind of reinvigorated me a little bit to see him come here and want to learn so much. and yeah he came up to me a little while ago and man the courage this kid has. He goes like I don't sell combustion at uh, analyzation tools but he comes up to me and I was running a Tru FL test he goes I want to run a combustion analyzation test can we do that now and I'm like it was like very straightforward and I was like I was like yeah I don't have I was like hold hold the phone I'm like and I was like a boss I was like like talking to someone with the other tool and I'm like look dude I'm like I know we're adults I'm like but I'm not letting this kid down I'm like you we got to stop. Hang on I'm like come here kid I'm like I'm gonna go line you out with the right guy I was like because this is awesome like yeah it's really inspiring to see like HVAC school like now we're reaching down into the young kids and it's like bringing them up.

yeah, apparently he watches Chris all of Chris Stevens videos on YouTube yeah and I'm I'm just like wow Blown away. If Brian doesn't put him in a truck real soon, somebody's going to Yeah, you're listening Brian I think you better put that young man in a truck, give him an apprenticeship or something I don't know. could do that cuz he's probably already broken all the child labor laws with his own kids so he may not know how to handle labor laws with kids that aren't his. It's Florida man, what do you mean you're you're getting out after 20 hours.

That's not how this works I get at least 60 hours out of you I had you. That's a trip man. it depends on whether they're working in the company or working in the yard. Yeah, all right.

So we had a oh go ahead. Well I'm just gonna ask you like can't see the questions over there since I don't have my own monitor what do we got? Is there anybody in comments uh Anthony Cox is saying man, he'd uh Hey from Virginia it's up Anthony he said man, he's catching up on the videos said he wish he could be here. Uh so we did have a question that came in if we want to have some technical talk. yeah, what's best Uh two-stage compressor or variable speed compressor? Oh that's a good question man.

ah hey I got an answer to that? Yeah, it depends. Oh, do it every freaking time every time this guy and for those in the comment land Chris really doesn't he doesn't like Chris hates that. But I'm gonna say I'm gonna follow that up with Chris's favorite thing which is an explanation of those words. It really depends on the situation.

like what are you trying to do? What are your goals? Where are you trying to go with that? Are you talking about cost? Are you talking about performance? right? Are you trying to match a load? Exactly what are you actually trying to do? And I would say variable speed compressor? Yeah, right and we're done. Boom yeah and mic dropped. game over. But I would say also budget let's not budget would be a big factor for me.

in my mind. let's not drop mics I don't think Brian would like us dropping his mics. Okay, when you say budget though. a two, a two-stage compressor and a variable speed compressor and a whole scheme of things.

Is there really much of any cost difference? It's so close. You're right. it's super close. I'm gonna take that back.

Edit that out. No, it's good. It's good conversation. me like I haven't priced units? have you priced out two stage versus variable speed lately? Micha It's getting close.

Man, you're really the one here in the group of the three of us that is still in touch with equipment price. It's really close. Um, and what do you think? percentage wise I Don't want to throw out hard numbers, but like percentage wise, how much more would I'm that back of the classroom guy I'm really not good with numbers, but it's uh, fair enough. it it.

it's close. approximately 11% better. it's um, yeah, I don't I don't know. I'm throwing out random percentages here, but the Comfort level is so much better at the variable speed.

I Would say it's been a couple years, but when I was handling up on our Price Books I mean the two stage compared to um then the inverter based line the the bigger decision maker there was this the thermostat. Believe it or not because when you when in our situation the wall controller which is what I'm calling the communicating thermostat that drove the inverter based system was very expensive. If I went with the two-stage system, it wasn't so much compressor versus compressor. it was like well I don't have to have the $500 plus barked up wall controller that's going to go with it I can use you know a $100 or $200 ecobe or something like that if I want to right and do what I want.

So it's like you start talking about, you know, 500 bucks? Yep or give or take that. that's a swing. Okay so that's where I remember this conversation. it's like well you know I get more functionality with the wall controller and there's a level of complexity with that right? Depends on the kind of house I'm dealing with depends on the kind of client but I would I would present both but it got to a point where um not naming Brands but we we had issues with the two stage.

uh there was just issues where we would compressors that would just go into lockout. um and that you go reset them and they' act fine and you know it was like it was a pain So Eventually what I did is I just pulled the two-stage equipment out of our pricing book all together because I didn't want to drop the line because I I liked it. Yeah, that's what did I think So I just quit offering two stage yeah but for me I I I still quote twostage. Um, uh, there's a big difference between.

Um, in my opinion, there's a big difference between I could monitor a variable speed equipment online. Yeah, I think there's a lot of value in that I could see coil temperature I could see when the power goes out. two stage I could. Like you said, I could put a very basic 24volt thermostat.

Well, you know I think something that's happened in the industry is um, not going to get into name brand specific, but now like you can have equipment do all that functionality without having to have the very expensive wall controller. It can be done between the air handler board and the board outside and the condenser. And when equipment manufacturers are forcing you to put a very expensive thermostat on the wall, um I don't like it personally I Don't dig it. I There's not many of them that I actually like I Think it should be up to the contractor and up to the homeowner to decide have that battle of what their stat should go on the wall.

But but then we'd have to move the brains of the unit from the wall into the air handler and be there's brands that have done that. There's some brands that do that. Yeah, that it still could be. You know you could control the brains bluet too.

connected to the board and programming and getting set up. No homeowner needs to know how to do that kind of setup. They're not I mean even as technicians, we're going to, uh, sit in a classroom to learn what all those functionalities mean. Anyway, yeah right.

so what do you think Eric did we confuse the heck out of that guy or what? very possibly? or did we confuse the heck out of our audience? So, but I'm gonna go back to my original statement. It depends. It depends. You hear, he's taking the deep breath.

He really just wants to reach over here a little bit. heartburn everybody. everybody in uh YouTube land got threw up in my mouth a little bit Chris Chris just kicked Eric under the table and uh yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's that's you know, that's us, that's the Great Vine This is what happens when Chris lets us know his Achilles heel and like you know his. his um what? really Buggs him Sure, no more.

no more secrets with you guys I'm still freaking out. We're all doing this together. You know it's always over the computer I Really appreciate Brian or be able to do this. Yeah, it's cool stuff man.

So dude, what about This Old House come on now. what about This Old House You got an old house Richard I think it was trying to pronounce his last name Treway Treway Treway There you go. So Brian or is talking to Richard and I was like man, don't be rude, don't get in there and be rude, again Mike this is Mike's fan story but I was like you know I watched this whole house for so long man I was like I don't know and my brain starts going. he's going to get on the plane, he's going to get out of here in 5 minutes so I had to jump in there I was like we gotta take a selfie and then you see Don Don Gillis like he starts fanboying out like oh my I was like oh my God I'm not the only one and like he's like for me he's up there you know it's like and then and then you got um H who else was it uh John John Ellis he's up there for me and then he's he's going up to Richard I was like this is cool you gota remember man uh when they did that show that show was straight up media wasn't social media was media right? They were on the screen.

we were all watching it from televisions I mean y those were Trailblazers they pulled it off so I was when he was here I was actually on stage. yeah David David Richards and I were on stage and he walked. We were in the big tent and David or um Richard walked into the big tent and sat down in the front row and was sitting there watching David and I and I'm like I'm getting a little nervous up here I'm like I got to really like he's he's watching me present like wait a minute. Isn't it weird? Yeah, it was a little.

It was a little weird to see somebody like that sitting there listening to me. It's so so surreal. Man, yeah and that was a fun class too. David and I did and that reminds me I used to watch his videos before he started linking up with our group.

Eric yeah yeah, Me you yeah. I watched a lot of Tai's videos. Yep yeah I don't have that many videos out there. watch them I don't have my own channel or anything I'm SP so like I was on Brian's stuff sometimes and around.

but like you got some videos out there man you, you might want to tie it. Tie it all together. we gotta get Mike we're gonna get Mike doing some videos. Yeah so so what do we have in store for the Great Vine for 2024 guys.

oh man, that's like good weing did I tell you what I was gonna do when I get home Eric what are you gonna do when you get home? So basically I've got my master bedroom is little track home basic Florida home where they throw uh return air Pathways above the door. so I got the same return air pathway above my door as I do about with my 10 By10 bedroom you know for my office so it I closed the door at night positively pressured. so I got a um I think I got the BPI certified with a cardboard in there it's a return air pathway and I was like ready to do a video and then and then Chris was like I got something coming for the Symposium I got the come on now it's got to be in the pocket. Was it a rum Lator rul baby Rul Rator rul.

So I was like in the room where it happens I Gotta Wait rum lator the Rator rator So I'm going to go home and I'm going to test for first and I'm going to see follow the instructions first but and then see see if the return a path that I bought work I was about to say that you might have bought the wrong size return air Grill well you little too slow on me on this. You know if if any of you are out there that work in a um uh Market with Central returns or where you use a door path or U an O as I like to call them occupant operated damper hole so um you you need to find your rul I think sounds like we're going there so I'm gonna go there so let's do it. There's going to be some purist and I think I got to have this conversation because this is a big platform way bigger than ours. So I'd like people to hear this from the horse's mouth.

Rul Yeah, rul no rul Uh no. For real, Let let me get this out. It says approximate three pascals of pressure right right between the room and the other room with the Central Main return Why Did I throw out the word approximate because if you have a room that has for Pascals of pressure, am I saying hey, you should go cut a big old or small passive return in for that, right? It's not exactly what I'm saying, but the bar has to be set somewhere I Think you should cut if you have four Pascals, you should cut a big passive return somewhere. Get those Pascals out we want we want no Pascals.

Let's talk about why. the the measurement is approximate for just a second. Yeah, right. Get that disclaimer out there.

so we don't know the room's leakage to outside, right? We don't have that measurement right? Okay, so if you build room pressure, what happens when you have pressure Like let's what. What happens when you have pressure in the duck work? If there's a hole in the duck work, it's going to leak out. Are you gonna leak out more air if you have more pressure in the same spot? C Can I say something here? Okay, realistically, is this a tool that their people are going to use on should use on every room or should they use this on rooms that have comfort problems? Oh, that's that's a great question. I Mean, look at me a great I've already have some pain in it, right? So you got you got some pain.

Do you know what's your Pascal measurement? Your Pascal differential I might have taken it when I was on the phone with you a couple months back. 100% it in my opinion. You use it on a room that you have problems with, right? you don't like. We could go into every house and fix something, but if the homeowner is not complaining about it, hard rewind, let's rewind it.

So I'm on a call a couple months ago and I'm there to fix the heat, right? So I don't you live in Florida right? Wasn't it hot? A couple months ago we had one day. oh one day. okay, one cold day, one cold day and the guy goes, ah, get here when you can. Yeah, it's no big deal.

it'll be warm. That's literally what he said. it'll be warm by the time you get there. So I show up two weeks later.

No. um anyway. so I I get there. you know I'm working on the heat and um, you know, listen to all these good guys here.

You start to get the verbiage like hey, is there any got any comfort complaints like this. This unit seems a little oversized. like is every room comfortable and he said yeah, every room's comfortable So he goes. You know what? Just take a look price me out for a new one and I was like all right I'll get some information I go up in the attic and the duck work seemed real.

spaghetti is so I told him I was like hey, you know we could straighten some of the duck works out, you know, straighten some of the duck work out on the install. No big deal and he goes. You know that probably explains why it's so hard to get the air in my master bedroom. So he had a comfort problem but he wouldn't tell you about it.

he wouldn't tell me so. a lot of the guys in a field when they're field, you gotta just kind of build a good, you know, make them comfortable I Think that's a perfect tie end to kind of. what Eric was saying is you should have the tool ready to go if you need to use it and you have to know enough about the envelope and everything, how it all interconnects right? because the consumer may not exactly know how to portray the problem to you. but if you can put the puzzle pieces together, that's one more test in your in your toolbox that you can say Oh from the complaint over here, this is my measurement.

This could be counteracting that affecting this yada yada. Yep, so let me let me back this up again. then I'm gonna ask another question real quick. Okay, because I know we're running short on time and I want to do I Want to run down our schedule real quick too? Um, if somebody has a room with say two Pascals of pressure and you'll understand this when you read the rimulator or watch the video about the rimulator on Tec's channel.

Um, but they have comfort problems when the door is closed. Should they use should they put in? probably look at putting in more return even though it's below that recommended three Pascal threshold. They need more tools. The Rul: You're beyond the you're beyond the basics of a rimulator at that point.

and now you need, uh, capture Hood infrared camera, maybe blower, door and and smoke if you want to go that route. but maybe you're dealing with. where can we find those tools at? Home Depot Or is it true Tech Tools you know I think I think there's yeah, there's this company online. True Tech Tools I think Yeah Yeah, yeah, no.

so the Rimulator is. It's not going to solve every problem. Okay, but it's A but is a quick entry, right? It's it's It's the easiest way to get your mind wrapping around how air is moving around the house. and then we build on those ideas and it's easy.

Quick. Kind of like get your toe in the water I Me: It's a first step that may fix a lot of problems. Yeah, right. So it's a low.

It's a low step. It's easy entry Carri it around in your pocket. You might fix a lot of problems with it, but if it doesn't fix the problem then you got to take that next step up. It's the it's the smallest absolute smallest Micron level step into a tool in my my pocket right now.

It's literally in your pocket. Yeah, in your wallet right? Okay, and it doesn't look like you're you're you're ducking somebody around. You know it's like it's a simple. it's a simple little step.

you you throw, throw the Dj8 under the under the uh door and you know, take a measure. Yeah. Mike We're out of time. Okay, kill us with some good words.

One one real quick thing. I got a question for you guys right next. Sunday We had a show scheduled on the 11th. Well that happens to be some big game I'm not sure I I don't think I can say that name oh out loud.

Legally you say game like Super Bowl like a football game I think yeah I don't think we can say that out loud. oh so salad I have to go to some Taylor Swift Thing you know. yeah. So I'm thinking like next Sunday just for those if you're if you're normally a great Vine listener y don't look for us on two on on February 11th because don't think we're going to be there TBA But but I will say you're probably not.

Keep an eye out cuz we're We're expanding our guest list this year we have got some good guests lined up and I'm telling you what I think we're gonna have a good one? Um yeah, start and maybe some YouTube shorts from Michael over here? Yeah Exile some Bells I was like hey, check us out never know we got and I'm just gonna throw this out there. on the 18th we got some people coming on. Talk about conditioning grow houses which is a big thing in our industry right now. Yeah for Holy Smokes Brian Brian Thank you for the time man! Sorry for interrupting you every time.

Thanks Brian Appreciate it brother See Uh.